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- Nov 28, 2011
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LOL thanks Chris
CocaCola, I take your comment as a compliment
But it seems to me that avoiding the whole programming issue makes it easier, on the whole, for newbies... Perhaps that's no longer true?
I guess the PIC, for one, is pretty easy to get started with, and the programming hardware is not expensive.
I don't like the PIC architecture, but for quick hacks like this, it might be a more practical option than a discrete design with twice as many components... What do you think?
I was thinking that I would write the program as well, when I'm suggesting answers in the forum. In this case, for the model aircraft strobe, I would write the code and design the hardware. Then anyone who wants to build it would just need to install the development tools, buy a programmer and build the hardware. I'm not sure where the line would be between discrete is easier and micro is easier.For the newbie the lack of needing to program still weighs heavy in favor of doing it with components, that way they can just purchase the stuff and wire it up.
[...]
The cost and learning curve of programming is still a big mountain to climb for many.
Sure. Even if I provided the code, there will be hassle involved in getting the device programmed.Once you actually learn how to program and have the investment done, you have a hard time relating to what it took to get there... A project like this for example is dead simple to someone that knows how to program and is setup to do so... A 50 cent micro, a few resistors, a cap, and a transistor or two and with a few lines of code and you are golden for about 75 cents and 15 minutes of time... But for the newbie this might actually take them a $100 investment and weeks worth of trial an error coding...
Yes, that's very cool! I've seen the data for the SOT-23 PICs. They're pretty neat and the size and cost opens up a new range of possibilities. IMO the most important thing is making them easy to program. A tiny 3-pin or 4-pin header or an array of pads on the PCB with a mating connector on the programmer, or even a programming connector that mates directly with the target device, with a USB interface, would make things easy.You could do this project with one of the 6 pin SOT23-6 PIC chips, a few (or one depending upon LED needs) SOT23 (resistor included) transistors and SMD decoupling cap all stuffed in about a 4mm cube worth of space... I would do this without a board, using direct pin to pin wiring with coil wrapping wires or direct soldering if the pins line up, with all the SOT23 chips stacked... Efficient, small, light weight and tight... But, likely well beyond most newbies in many regards... I have done a lot of real tight circuits like this for applications in small models, or existing items where drilling a small hole will suffice in creating enough space to mount the circuit...
Yes, that's very cool! I've seen the data for the SOT-23 PICs. They're pretty neat and the size and cost opens up a new range of possibilities. IMO the most important thing is making them easy to program. A tiny 3-pin or 4-pin header or an array of pads on the PCB with a mating connector on the programmer, or even a programming connector that mates directly with the target device, with a USB interface, would make things easy.
My AVR projects were done in the days when PCs had 25-pin parallel ports, and I used a 10-pin IDC connector for the programming port.
It would be my choice since PICs are my go to chip, especially if there is a space or weight concern that is likely in this application for an RC plane... AVRs would work as well, just not my go to...
Since this is for RC planes should I try to find a different circuit option?
I had thought that a 556 chip might be a good candidate for this type of circuit...but no one has mentioned it and I have not seen any designs using one for this purpose.
Any suggestions on what and where/what to study in order to eventually develop the skills required to put some of these circuits together without needing others to do it? I have tinkered with things electronic for years but the skills to design even some of these fairly simple circuits seem well out of reach. How/where does one go about self learning some of the skills that might help one to begin to design some of these simpler circuits?
You don't need a flash one for most stuff.I have a multimeter... My third actually, just got it, not a great one but the best one I have had yet...
That's good! If you have an enquiring mind, you can't really fail to learn.I have a background in programming and have been messing with electrical stuff since I was about 5 with some exposure from my Dad who was an EE.. But I never got that far obviously. I used to take apart everything as a kid..made my Dad nuts..
Yes, that's true. For example the 555-based oscillator is a bit like a library function that you would call. It's well-established and has a clear function. It's a bit different in that you know how it works internally, and you can modify it if you need to, but there's a similar "re-use" principle at work.But this stuff seems much harder to me than programming and the math seems critical...yet I can imagine with enough experience the circuits may just draw themselves in your head...like code..
Would look like, less the LEDs, and possibly a need for a bigger resistors... FYI it's a 3.3V regulator and PIC10F322 in the picture... The regulator being the biggest component in the picture, but if you already have a 3-5Vish supply it can be skipped..1x PIC10F320
1x or 2x SMT transistor
3x current-limiting resistors for the LEDs
3x LEDs
1x decoupling capacitor
plus a 5V power supply.
Most electronic designs can be considered as modules, or building blocks, interconnected in specific ways, much like the logic of a program. You could also consider individual components to be building blocks (or sub-blocks).
Another suggestion for you: find an electronics club. There's NOTHING like talking with people, having them explain their designs, and being able to ask them questions.
FYI... Here is what this...
Would look like, less the LEDs, and possibly a need for a bigger resistors... FYI it's a 3.3V regulator and PIC10F322 in the picture... The regulator being the biggest component in the picture, but if you already have a 3-5Vish supply it can be skipped..
Man I'd need a really small bread board...!
Vary carefully With tweezers and a magnifier, combined with a steady hand and gold soldering skills... It's all normal to me, thus the reason I had those parts laying around, I use them all the time...No idea how to work with such small components..
Getting started with micros the painless way. One Picaxe 08M2 will flash your LEDs and do the Tango for you. The free .pdf documentation is nothing short of stellar. A complete nube can code 2 LEDs independently flashing in less than 30 minutes of reading time. The programming editor has a built in simulator. You don't even need a chip to see your code run.
http://www.picaxe.com/
Software: Free download
Hardware options: RS232 or USB
RS232: Serial cable needed
USB: Any USB/RS232 converter dongle that supports "Break" mode. Today, this is just about all of them. Picaxe sells there own molded model that's compact and worth the small price.
Chris