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LOL thanks Chris 
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CocaCola, I take your comment as a compliment, thanks I would also probably use a micro for any project more complicated than this, if I was designing for myself. In my previous job in embedded systems, I worked with AVR, 8051, MSP430 and several others. But it seems to me that avoiding the whole programming issue makes it easier, on the whole, for newbies... Perhaps that's no longer true?
I guess the PIC, for one, is pretty easy to get started with, and the programming hardware is not expensive. I don't like the PIC architecture, but for quick hacks like this, it might be a more practical option than a discrete design with twice as many components... What do you think?
I would also probably use a micro for any project more complicated than this, if I was designing for myself. In my previous job in embedded systems, I worked with AVR, 8051, MSP430 and several others. But it seems to me that avoiding the whole programming issue makes it easier, on the whole, for newbies... Perhaps that's no longer true?I guess the PIC, for one, is pretty easy to get started with, and the programming hardware is not expensive. I don't like the PIC architecture, but for quick hacks like this, it might be a more practical option than a discrete design with twice as many components... What do you think?
It was, by far... I honestly love to see it and look at all the circuits you post...
For the newbie the lack of needing to program still weighs heavy in favor of doing it with components, that way they can just purchase the stuff and wire it up...
The cost and learning curve of programming is still a big mountain to climb for many... Once you actually learn how to program and have the investment done, you have a hard time relating to what it took to get there... A project like this for example is dead simple to someone that knows how to program and is setup to do so... A 50 cent micro, a few resistors, a cap, and a transistor or two and with a few lines of code and you are golden for about 75 cents and 15 minutes of time... But for the newbie this might actually take them a $100 investment and weeks worth of trial an error coding...
I actually believe the AVR is less costly to start with as the commercial programming hardware is dirt cheap... With both choices there are plenty of 'free' or low cost compilers now so that price is negated to nil if you want...
It would be my choice since PICs are my go to chip, especially if there is a space or weight concern that is likely in this application for an RC plane... AVRs would work as well, just not my go to...
You could do this project with one of the 6 pin SOT23-6 PIC chips, a few (or one depending upon LED needs) SOT23 (resistor included) transistors and SMD decoupling cap all stuffed in about a 4mm cube worth of space... I would do this without a board, using direct pin to pin wiring with coil wrapping wires or direct soldering if the pins line up, with all the SOT23 chips stacked... Efficient, small, light weight and tight... But, likely well beyond most newbies in many regards... I have done a lot of real tight circuits like this for applications in small models, or existing items where drilling a small hole will suffice in creating enough space to mount the circuit...
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I was thinking that I would write the program as well, when I'm suggesting answers in the forum. In this case, for the model aircraft strobe, I would write the code and design the hardware. Then anyone who wants to build it would just need to install the development tools, buy a programmer and build the hardware. I'm not sure where the line would be between discrete is easier and micro is easier.
A good example is another thread where the guy is creating an illumination system for his model of the Deep Space 9 spaceship. He has several separate lighting areas, and he wanted timed delays, flashing, and in one case, brightness ramp-up. We made contact outside the forum and he has built his control circuit, using two 4015s (I think it was you that suggested the 4015) to provide the sequential lighting, controlled by a soundtrack (the theme tune) with timed tone bursts in the second channel that advance the 4015s (my suggestion). He's happy with it, but it could have been done with a micro and he would have full flexibility to change the sequence, add ramp-up or flashing on any signal, etc. I guess all you can do is present the advantages and disadvantages of each approach, and let him make the choice.
Sure. Even if I provided the code, there will be hassle involved in getting the device programmed.
Yes, that's very cool! I've seen the data for the SOT-23 PICs. They're pretty neat and the size and cost opens up a new range of possibilities. IMO the most important thing is making them easy to program. A tiny 3-pin or 4-pin header or an array of pads on the PCB with a mating connector on the programmer, or even a programming connector that mates directly with the target device, with a USB interface, would make things easy.
My AVR projects were done in the days when PCs had 25-pin parallel ports, and I used a 10-pin IDC connector for the programming port. These days any connector bigger than an 8-pin SOIC would be considered a huge waste of board space!
Yeah it's a little hassle, I just solder them to an 8 pin adapter boards for playing around with and even short run programming... Easy enough to solder and unsolder in small runs... ICSP ability is pretty much a necessity on a large run...
At the end of the day I default to 8 pin soic versions (that fit right in a soic ZIF socket) when I can, no need to deal with the small package unless necessary...
That time period was a majority of my AVR tinkering as well, a simple bread boarded parallel port adapter and a bunch of 2313 chips... I'm currently up to date with the AVR hardware and software but it gets very little use since PICs are my go to now...
I hadn't considered the size of the components and time to assemble. Since this is for RC planes should I try to find a different circuit option? I had thought that a 556 chip might be a good candidate for this type of circuit...but no one has mentioned it and I have not seen any designs using one for this purpose.
BTW:
Any suggestions on what and where/what to study in order to eventually develop the skills required to put some of these circuits together without needing others to do it? I have tinkered with things electronic for years but the skills to design even some of these fairly simple circuits seem well out of reach. How/where does one go about self learning some of the skills that might help one to begin to design some of these simpler circuits?
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Fully dependent on your needs, I suspect most RC planes will be fine with a few extra grams of weight, but if weight and size are important a micro is going to be your best option...
It's only two 555 chips in a single package, there are usually ways to work around needing the two independent clocks...
Read forums like this on a daily basis, and pay attention to what is being discussed... Read some of the books suggested on this forum as well as others... Hit up Google and research circuits and chips that might be of interest to you... Find basic tutorial sites on common chips and read them... I always suggest people look at 555 timer circuits as well and 4000 series chips, A LOT can be done with those chips and a little study... I'm self taught and have a LONG way to still go, it's a never ending study path... I still spend probably 20 hours a week reading on the subject, generally I just spin off on some tangent that pops in my mind (or that I read about on some forum) and read until I get tired of reading about that...
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I can't really see how a 556 would help in this application.
A microcontroller-based design would be the simplest and most compact. CocaCola mentioned the 6-pin SOT-23 PIC microcontrollers (e.g. PIC10F322, see http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PIC10F322T-I/OT/PIC10F322T-I/OTCT-ND/2772077). The PIC10F320/322 has the following features:
SOT-23 (SMT) package, 6 leads
Supply voltage range 2.3~5.5V
Internal clock oscillator, accuracy typically +/- 1% and guaranteed +/- 5% from -40~+125 deg.C
Internal reset generation on power-up and brown-out
Internal watchdog, low-power sleep modes, interrupts
Four I/O pins (plus two pins for power equals six pins)
Can be programmed out-of-circuit or in-circuit serially
Two 8-bit timers, two 10-bit PWM modules (for brightness or speed control)
8-bit ADC with internal reference (for measuring external quantities)
Configurable logic cell, numerically controlled oscillator, internal temperature sensor...
Price USD 0.83 for 1-off quantities from Digikey; 100-up price USD 0.49.
A device like this could drive two white double-flash LEDs and the red single-flash LED that I saw in that YouTube video, with a circuit consisting of:
1x PIC10F320
1x or 2x SMT transistor or MOSFET - something like this: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SI2302-TP/SI2302-TPMSCT-ND/1793402
3x current-limiting resistors for the LEDs
3x LEDs
1x decoupling capacitor
plus a 5V power supply.
Re learning, as well as CocaCola's advice, I'd say get a multimeter if you haven't got one already, and an oscilloscope when you can afford it. Take apart stuff and see how it's made. Look up all the part numbers on components you find, using Digikey or Mouser or Google. Remove parts and experiment with them. Buy some books about basic electronics. Make some kitsets.
A microcontroller-based design would be the simplest and most compact. CocaCola mentioned the 6-pin SOT-23 PIC microcontrollers (e.g. PIC10F322, see http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PIC10F322T-I/OT/PIC10F322T-I/OTCT-ND/2772077). The PIC10F320/322 has the following features:
SOT-23 (SMT) package, 6 leads
Supply voltage range 2.3~5.5V
Internal clock oscillator, accuracy typically +/- 1% and guaranteed +/- 5% from -40~+125 deg.C
Internal reset generation on power-up and brown-out
Internal watchdog, low-power sleep modes, interrupts
Four I/O pins (plus two pins for power equals six pins)
Can be programmed out-of-circuit or in-circuit serially
Two 8-bit timers, two 10-bit PWM modules (for brightness or speed control)
8-bit ADC with internal reference (for measuring external quantities)
Configurable logic cell, numerically controlled oscillator, internal temperature sensor...
Price USD 0.83 for 1-off quantities from Digikey; 100-up price USD 0.49.
A device like this could drive two white double-flash LEDs and the red single-flash LED that I saw in that YouTube video, with a circuit consisting of:
1x PIC10F320
1x or 2x SMT transistor or MOSFET - something like this: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SI2302-TP/SI2302-TPMSCT-ND/1793402
3x current-limiting resistors for the LEDs
3x LEDs
1x decoupling capacitor
plus a 5V power supply.
Re learning, as well as CocaCola's advice, I'd say get a multimeter if you haven't got one already, and an oscilloscope when you can afford it. Take apart stuff and see how it's made. Look up all the part numbers on components you find, using Digikey or Mouser or Google. Remove parts and experiment with them. Buy some books about basic electronics. Make some kitsets.
Okay thanks for the info Coca and Kris..
I have a multimeter... My third actually, just got it, not a great one but the best one I have had yet...
I have a background in programming and have been messing with electrical stuff since I was about 5 with some exposure from my Dad who was an EE.. But I never got that far obviously. I used to take apart everything as a kid..made my Dad nuts..
But this stuff seems much harder to me than programming and the math seems critical...yet I can imagine with enough experience the circuits may just draw themselves in your head...like code..
Very good info here--I'll keep reading...
Jim
I have a multimeter... My third actually, just got it, not a great one but the best one I have had yet...
I have a background in programming and have been messing with electrical stuff since I was about 5 with some exposure from my Dad who was an EE.. But I never got that far obviously. I used to take apart everything as a kid..made my Dad nuts..
But this stuff seems much harder to me than programming and the math seems critical...yet I can imagine with enough experience the circuits may just draw themselves in your head...like code..
Very good info here--I'll keep reading...
Jim
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You don't need a flash one for most stuff.
That's good! If you have an enquiring mind, you can't really fail to learn.
Yes, that's true. For example the 555-based oscillator is a bit like a library function that you would call. It's well-established and has a clear function. It's a bit different in that you know how it works internally, and you can modify it if you need to, but there's a similar "re-use" principle at work.
Most electronic designs can be considered as modules, or building blocks, interconnected in specific ways, much like the logic of a program. You could also consider individual components to be building blocks (or sub-blocks).
Another suggestion for you: find an electronics club. There's NOTHING like talking with people, having them explain their designs, and being able to ask them questions.
FYI... Here is what this...
Would look like, less the LEDs, and possibly a need for a bigger resistors... FYI it's a 3.3V regulator and PIC10F322 in the picture... The regulator being the biggest component in the picture, but if you already have a 3-5Vish supply it can be skipped..
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Yes I thought about the blocks... And a good grasp of basics I'm sure won't hurt.. This is like sub machine language.
Thanks I'll look around at what clubs are around..
Thanks again,
Jim
FYI... Here is what this...
Would look like, less the LEDs, and possibly a need for a bigger resistors... FYI it's a 3.3V regulator and PIC10F322 in the picture... The regulator being the biggest component in the picture, but if you already have a 3-5Vish supply it can be skipped..
Man I'd need a really small bread board...!
Wow... I didn't know they were that small.. No idea how to work with such small components..
For a project like this you would breadboard with larger counterparts if you needed to breadboard that is... This project is so basic there is no real need to breadboard... Final circuit built on either a production PC board or as I stated earlier point to point wiring with coil wrap gauged wire or direct pin to pin soldering... I would glue the components on top of each other to make one 'solid' unit if I was point to point wiring...
Vary carefully
With tweezers and a magnifier, combined with a steady hand and gold soldering skills... It's all normal to me, thus the reason I had those parts laying around, I use them all the time...
Getting started with micros the painless way. One Picaxe 08M2 will flash your LEDs and do the Tango for you. The free .pdf documentation is nothing short of stellar. A complete nube can code 2 LEDs independently flashing in less than 30 minutes of reading time. The programming editor has a built in simulator. You don't even need a chip to see your code run.
http://www.picaxe.com/
Software: Free download
Hardware options: RS232 or USB
RS232: Serial cable needed
USB: Any USB/RS232 converter dongle that supports "Break" mode. Today, this is just about all of them. Picaxe sells there own molded model that's compact and worth the small price.
Chris
http://www.picaxe.com/
Software: Free download
Hardware options: RS232 or USB
RS232: Serial cable needed
USB: Any USB/RS232 converter dongle that supports "Break" mode. Today, this is just about all of them. Picaxe sells there own molded model that's compact and worth the small price.
Chris
Getting started with micros the painless way. One Picaxe 08M2 will flash your LEDs and do the Tango for you. The free .pdf documentation is nothing short of stellar. A complete nube can code 2 LEDs independently flashing in less than 30 minutes of reading time. The programming editor has a built in simulator. You don't even need a chip to see your code run.
http://www.picaxe.com/
Software: Free download
Hardware options: RS232 or USB
RS232: Serial cable needed
USB: Any USB/RS232 converter dongle that supports "Break" mode. Today, this is just about all of them. Picaxe sells there own molded model that's compact and worth the small price.
Chris
Thanks Chris I'll check it out!
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