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Voltage controlled 10V->100V DC-DC converter

Is there an easy way to make a voltage controlled DC-DC converter with
say a 0-10V input and a 0-100V output? MAXIM has an app note for
something like this, though it's controlled by resistors as far as I
can tell.

http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/1751

I might be able to use a FET as a voltage controlled resistor (this may
show my complete lack of knowledge about circuits...) and therefor
control the output voltage though. I need to make ~100 of these, so I
need it to be kinda small -- a chip with some R/C/L/diodes would be
preferable.


Jesse
 
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
Is there an easy way to make a voltage controlled DC-DC converter with
say a 0-10V input and a 0-100V output? MAXIM has an app note for
something like this, though it's controlled by resistors as far as I
can tell.

http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/1751

I might be able to use a FET as a voltage controlled resistor (this may
show my complete lack of knowledge about circuits...) and therefor
control the output voltage though. I need to make ~100 of these, so I
need it to be kinda small -- a chip with some R/C/L/diodes would be
preferable.
 
Output current is going to be in the low mA range, though I don't have
an exact number (the load is almost entirely capacitive, with a very
high R in parallel). I was hoping that the physical size would be
something like 1"x1" on a PC board, if possible. And as far as
efficiency, I assume you mean

Power out / Power in ?

If so, I can deal with very low efficiency. I'd have no problem having
a standard rack HP power supply, or a few of them, powering the whole
thing. As far as a control input voltage, I'll be controlling these
DC-DC convters via CPU (with a National Instruments analog I/O board)
that can supply -10V-10V analog (I can do digital too, but sounds more
complicated).
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
[email protected] wrote...
Output current is going to be in the low mA range, though I don't have
an exact number (the load is almost entirely capacitive, with a very
high R in parallel). I was hoping that the physical size would be
something like 1"x1" on a PC board, if possible. And as far as
efficiency, I assume you mean - Power out / Power in ?

If so, I can deal with very low efficiency. I'd have no problem having
a standard rack HP power supply, or a few of them, powering the whole
thing. As far as a control input voltage, I'll be controlling these
DC-DC convters via CPU (with a National Instruments analog I/O board)
that can supply -10V-10V analog (I can do digital too, but sounds more
complicated).

I think you want a linear high-voltage opamp, such as those
made by Apex, powered from a small 150V dc-dc switching power
supply. Setup the opamp for a gain of 10x. Yawn.
 
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
Output current is going to be in the low mA range, though I don't have
an exact number (the load is almost entirely capacitive, with a very
high R in parallel). I was hoping that the physical size would be
something like 1"x1" on a PC board, if possible. And as far as
efficiency, I assume you mean

Power out / Power in ?

If so, I can deal with very low efficiency. I'd have no problem having
a standard rack HP power supply, or a few of them, powering the whole
thing. As far as a control input voltage, I'll be controlling these
DC-DC convters via CPU (with a National Instruments analog I/O board)
that can supply -10V-10V analog (I can do digital too, but sounds more
complicated).


I don't know much about switching supplies, but how about something
like this:


+12V>--+-----------------------------------+
| | Vc Vout
[L1] | 0-10 0-100
| | | /
+---[CR1>]--------------------------|---|---+--->>---+
| | | | |
| | | | |
C A---+ /+|--+ [R3] |
Q1 B--[R1]-+-Y NAND | A-------< | | +---+
E | B---+-+-Y NAND \-|------+ | |
| | | B---+ | | [C] [R]
| | | | | | | |
| | +--[R2]--+ | [R4] +---+
| | | | | |
| +--------[C1]-------+ | | |
| | | |
GND>---+-----------------------------------+-------+--->>---+

Basically a boost converter where the two NANDs form a gated
oscillator which turns Q1 on and off, forcing current through L1 and
then shutting it off abruptly which makes a spike that gets integrated
by C (your capacitor). As the stream of spikes charges C, the voltage
at the junction of R3 and R4 (a 10:1 voltage divider) rises until it
equals the voltage on the comparator's + input, at which time the
output of the comparator goes low, stopping the oscillator and turning
Q1 off. Then, when R (your load resistance) discharges C to the point
where the voltage on the - input of the comparator goes lower than the
voltage on the + input, the comparator's output will go high again,
starting the oscillator and recharging C.
 
F

Fred Bloggs

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
Output current is going to be in the low mA range, though I don't have
an exact number (the load is almost entirely capacitive, with a very
high R in parallel). I was hoping that the physical size would be
something like 1"x1" on a PC board, if possible. And as far as
efficiency, I assume you mean

Power out / Power in ?

If so, I can deal with very low efficiency. I'd have no problem having
a standard rack HP power supply, or a few of them, powering the whole
thing. As far as a control input voltage, I'll be controlling these
DC-DC convters via CPU (with a National Instruments analog I/O board)
that can supply -10V-10V analog (I can do digital too, but sounds more
complicated).



I don't know much about switching supplies, but how about something
like this:


+12V>--+-----------------------------------+
| | Vc Vout
[L1] | 0-10 0-100
| | | /
+---[CR1>]--------------------------|---|---+--->>---+
| | | | |
| | | | |
C A---+ /+|--+ [R3] |
Q1 B--[R1]-+-Y NAND | A-------< | | +---+
E | B---+-+-Y NAND \-|------+ | |
| | | B---+ | | [C] [R]
| | | | | | | |
| | +--[R2]--+ | [R4] +---+
| | | | | |
| +--------[C1]-------+ | | |
| | | |
GND>---+-----------------------------------+-------+--->>---+

Basically a boost converter where the two NANDs form a gated
oscillator which turns Q1 on and off, forcing current through L1 and
then shutting it off abruptly which makes a spike that gets integrated
by C (your capacitor). As the stream of spikes charges C, the voltage
at the junction of R3 and R4 (a 10:1 voltage divider) rises until it
equals the voltage on the comparator's + input, at which time the
output of the comparator goes low, stopping the oscillator and turning
Q1 off. Then, when R (your load resistance) discharges C to the point
where the voltage on the - input of the comparator goes lower than the
voltage on the + input, the comparator's output will go high again,
starting the oscillator and recharging C.

A few gotchas to watch for in that boost converter are that 1) the 12V
feeds through L+CR1 to output when the transistor is off so that output
is never less than 12V and 2) the steady state Vout/Vin= 1/(1-Duty)
where Duty is transistor switch duty cycle- so you would want that to be
about 0.1 or so when Vin=12V. A 50% duty cycle gives you a maximum of
24V for Vout.
 
F

Fred Bloggs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Fred said:
... 2) the steady state Vout/Vin= 1/(1-Duty)
where Duty is transistor switch duty cycle- so you would want that to be
about 0.1 or so when Vin=12V. A 50% duty cycle gives you a maximum of
24V for Vout.

Voops->(1-Duty) is about 0.1 which makes Duty=0.9 for a x10 boost...
 
G

Genome

Jan 1, 1970
0
Fred Bloggs said:
Voops->(1-Duty) is about 0.1 which makes Duty=0.9 for a x10 boost...

Not if it's operating discontinuously.

How is Barry these days?

DNA
 
M

Mebart

Jan 1, 1970
0
An interesting circuit, and one that I had not seen. Thanks for
pointing it out. But, it appears you need slightly more output current
than the Maxim circuit can supply. You can add an outboard totem pole
driver to beef up the Maxim circuit, it should work well for you.

I might use paralleled cmos bus driver gates in a free running gated
oscillator and feed that input into the Maxim step up circuit. Use a
micropower comparator with a built in reference voltage to gate the
oscillator on or off as needed to maintain the desired output. Sample
the output and feed the stepped down voltage into the comparator to be
the input for the gating.

Also consider an EL (not ccfl) inverter chip to make your high
voltage. They run with a simple inductor and produce constant current
AC up to the clamp voltage that you select with resistors. One of the
nicer ones is below and they do have an evaluation module available.
Read on.

If you want a small chip with few components, 1cap, 1 inductor and a
Rogers D355B chip give you 200v p-p and is designed to drive
capacitive loads (EL backlight displays). There is a press release at:

http://www.rogers-corp.com/durel/new_el_driver.htm

The complete specs and design notes are at:

http://www.rogers-corp.com/durel/pdf/lit-i9034a07.pdf

Rogers also sells a module with all components included, not sure
about the module price. But, it's worth a look to see. The pdf file
has many design notes including add on's for additional features.
There's a PWM input in case you want to regulate the output voltage.

Regards,

Mebart
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
Winfield Hill wrote...
[email protected] wrote...

I think you want a linear high-voltage opamp, such as those
made by Apex, powered from a small 150V dc-dc switching power
supply. Setup the opamp for a gain of 10x. Yawn.

I didn't notice you were going to make 100 of these, powered from a
single power supply. The APEX amplifiers are easy to use, but they
are expensive. I still think a linear solution bests a switching
supply solution, but with 100 units something simple and cheap is in
order. I suggest you use a circuit like fig 3.75 in our book, except
with transistors instead of FETs. Here's one that should work well:

.. ---+-------+-- 130 to 150V HV supply
.. | | 100 amplifiers requires
.. R4 10k R5 70mA maximum (all at 0V)
.. Simple, Cheap 220k |
.. Precision Slow | |/ Q2
.. HV Amplifier +-----| mpsA42
.. | |\v
.. G = 1 + R2/R1 | | R3
.. +--|<|--+--+--- 2.2k ---- out
.. | 1n4148 | 0 to 110V
.. |/ | +/- 4mA
.. gnd --| mpsA42 |
.. |\v Q1 |
.. 0-10V __quad opamp | |
.. in -----|+ \ R6 | R2
.. | >--+-- 3.3k --' 1.00M 1%
.. ,--|-_/ | |
.. | === 330pF |
.. | | C1 |
.. '---------+---------------------+
.. | R1
.. +/-15v opamp supply 100k 1%
.. |
.. gnd

I've used a common-base non-inverting high-voltage stage to allow
simple one-cap C1 feedback-loop compensation. R5 and R6 provide
short-circuit limiting. R3 isolates the feedback loop from large
capacitive loads, but can be eliminated if you increase C1. Note,
the mpsA42 transistors can handle 300 volts, so the output range
could easily be increased.

You haven't mentioned the accuracy or speed you need. If these are
very relaxed specs, you can eliminate the opamp and drive the level-
shifting stage directly from your D-A stage, using the -10 to 0V
part of your D-A range. Although a regulated HV supply is required,
this is a dramatically simplified circuit!

.. ---+-------+------- Vcc = 120V
.. | | regulated HV supply
.. R4 27k R5 60mA max for 100 amps
.. 200k 1% |
.. Super Simple | |/ Q2
.. no-feedback +-----| mpsA42
.. HV Amplifier | |\v
.. | |
.. +--|<|--+---+------ out
.. | 1n4148 | 0 to 110V
.. |/ 220k +/- 1mA
.. gnd --| mpsA42 |
.. |\v Q1 gnd
.. |
.. R6 | R4
.. -10 to 0V in --- 12.0k --' Vout = Vcc - -- (-Vin - 0.65V) - 0.65V
.. 1% R6

There's a slight nonlinearity, especially near the maximum output
voltage, where the D-A converter signal approaches Q1's 0.65V Vbe.
But you could easily calibrate it out, because it'll be the same
for all 100 amps and it won't change much at room temperature. If
the 1st 0.65V term in the equation is too much of a pain, you could
create a +0.65V point and tie all 100 Q1 bases to that.

Or you can add 25 quad opamps to eliminate the Q1 offsets:

.. ---+-------+------- Vcc = 120V +/-0.5V
.. | | regulated HV supply
.. R4 27k R5 60mA max for 100 amps
.. 200k 1% |
.. Simple 2% Precise | |/ Q2
.. HV Amplifier +-----| mpsA42
.. | |\v
.. | |
.. 1/4 LM324 +--|<|--+---+------ out
.. __ | 1n4148 | 0 to 110V
.. gnd ----|+ \ |/ 220k +/- 1mA
.. | >-----| mpsA42 |
.. ,--|-_/ |\v Q1 gnd
.. | |
.. '--------------+
.. R6 | R4
.. -10 to 0V in --- 15.0k --' Vout = Vcc - -- ( -Vin ) - 0.65V
.. 1% R6

The last 0.65V term comes from the Vbe drop of Q2. There's still
a small missing contribution to the output equation coming from
Q1's base current, but that should be under 1% for typical parts.
If that concerns you, make Q1 a Darlington with two mpsA42 parts.

I think if you add it all up, this'll beat 100 switching circuits.
 
M

Mebart

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jesse,

Are you going to have HV generators with 100 separate outputs and 100
separate (0-10v) inputs, all controlled independently?

I thought you needed 100 high voltage supplies running independently
and that you needed to control the outputs based on an independent
analog input, hence my suggestion of the low power EL inverter chip
which could be controlled with through the dimming input.

I'm wondering, can you have a single (relatively large and powerful)
100 volt source with 100 outputs that are (effectively) electronic
variable resistors???? I don't think there are any cheap low power
high voltage op amps out there, they usually tend to be high voltage
and high power (and expensive).

If you have a single big 100 volt power supply, I'd think that a PWM
chip hooked to simple switching transistor would do the job. There are
some low cost low power pwm chips available.

M
 
F

Fred Bloggs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Genome said:
Not if it's operating discontinuously.

Oh yeah- he said:"Output current is going to be in the low mA range,
though I don't have an exact number (the load is almost entirely
capacitive, with a very high R in parallel)"- so discontinuous it is.
How is Barry these days?

I suppose he's out there ripping off some gullible idiot with flash and
dazzle techno babble that will amount to nothing eventually...
 
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
Output current is going to be in the low mA range, though I don't have
an exact number (the load is almost entirely capacitive, with a very
high R in parallel). I was hoping that the physical size would be
something like 1"x1" on a PC board, if possible. And as far as
efficiency, I assume you mean

Power out / Power in ?

If so, I can deal with very low efficiency. I'd have no problem having
a standard rack HP power supply, or a few of them, powering the whole
thing. As far as a control input voltage, I'll be controlling these
DC-DC convters via CPU (with a National Instruments analog I/O board)
that can supply -10V-10V analog (I can do digital too, but sounds more
complicated).



I don't know much about switching supplies, but how about something
like this:


+12V>--+-----------------------------------+
| | Vc Vout
[L1] | 0-10 0-100
| | | /
+---[CR1>]--------------------------|---|---+--->>---+
| | | | |
| | | | |
C A---+ /+|--+ [R3] |
Q1 B--[R1]-+-Y NAND | A-------< | | +---+
E | B---+-+-Y NAND \-|------+ | |
| | | B---+ | | [C] [R]
| | | | | | | |
| | +--[R2]--+ | [R4] +---+
| | | | | |
| +--------[C1]-------+ | | |
| | | |
GND>---+-----------------------------------+-------+--->>---+

Basically a boost converter where the two NANDs form a gated
oscillator which turns Q1 on and off, forcing current through L1 and
then shutting it off abruptly which makes a spike that gets integrated
by C (your capacitor). As the stream of spikes charges C, the voltage
at the junction of R3 and R4 (a 10:1 voltage divider) rises until it
equals the voltage on the comparator's + input, at which time the
output of the comparator goes low, stopping the oscillator and turning
Q1 off. Then, when R (your load resistance) discharges C to the point
where the voltage on the - input of the comparator goes lower than the
voltage on the + input, the comparator's output will go high again,
starting the oscillator and recharging C.

A few gotchas to watch for in that boost converter are that 1) the 12V
feeds through L+CR1 to output when the transistor is off so that output
is never less than 12V and 2) the steady state Vout/Vin= 1/(1-Duty)
where Duty is transistor switch duty cycle- so you would want that to be
about 0.1 or so when Vin=12V. A 50% duty cycle gives you a maximum of
24V for Vout.
 
M

Mebart

Jan 1, 1970
0
It looks like an absolutely outstanding book, but an expensive one.
Are there any plans for an updated version??

M
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mebart wrote...
It looks like an absolutely outstanding book, but an expensive one.
Are there any plans for an updated version??

Its cheap for its size and content. We'll have a new edition in a
few years, if we can pick up the writing pace. But, respectfully,
it looks like Jesse needs help now. He should get a copy. You can
get one too, Mebart. :>)
 
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