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Voltage controlled 10V->100V DC-DC converter

F

Fred Bloggs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Winfield said:
I still think a linear solution bests a switching
supply solution, but with 100 units something simple and cheap is in
order.

I am not sure about that- Linear (IIRC) has at least one clever app note
where they show how to easily adapt one of their miniature boost
regulators to buck-boost mode. This is done by placing a P-MOSFET
between the boost output and load and then using the LBI/LBO logic and
FET as hysteretic controller when the converter goes into buck mode-
boost SW off and normally problematic Vin feedthrough directly to FET.
 
J

Jonathan Kirwan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Its cheap for its size and content. We'll have a new edition in a
few years, if we can pick up the writing pace.

That's it! I am definitely going to stop holding my breath.

Jon
 
Oh, I DEFINITELY have a copy. We use piezos on all of our lasers
actually (referring to figure 3.75 -- 1kV low-power piezo driver)
though I shamefully say that all of our laser driving hardware is
bought, and not built (except for some of the PID locks). I just
didn't exactly know where to look for a power supply circuit like this
-- It should have hit me that driving a piezo is basically what I'm
trying to do (big capacitive load, no current).

Incidentally, in case anyone is interested, we're a neutrino physics
group at Stanford (http://www-project.slac.stanford.edu/exo/). I'm on
a team building a linear ion trap (for Barium actually), which is
basically a set of 4 segmented rods (15 segments each) that are driven
at about 1MHz@100Vpk-pk with a DC offset that needs to be controllable.
By changing the DC offset, you can move on ion around wherever you
need it. After we trap an ion, we hit it with 493nm and 650nm lasers
(650nm is an off the shelf diode, 493 is a doubled diode using KTP) to
drive it's levels, and we look for the fluoresence. And, though I'm a
physics grad, I unfortunately have WAY less electronics experience than
I should (other than the super basics -- opamps and stuff).
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
[email protected] wrote...
Oh, I DEFINITELY have a copy.
Excellent!

We use piezos on all of our lasers actually (referring to
figure 3.75 -- 1kV low-power piezo driver) though I shamefully say
that all of our laser driving hardware is bought, and not built
(except for some of the PID locks). I just didn't exactly know
where to look for a power supply circuit like this -- It should
have hit me that driving a piezo is basically what I'm trying to
do (big capacitive load, no current).

Did you say exactly what capacitive load you were driving?
Incidentally, in case anyone is interested, we're a neutrino physics
group at Stanford (http://www-project.slac.stanford.edu/exo/). I'm on
a team building a linear ion trap (for Barium actually), which is
basically a set of 4 segmented rods (15 segments each) that are driven
at about 1MHz@100Vpk-pk with a DC offset that needs to be controllable.
By changing the DC offset, you can move on ion around wherever you
need it. After we trap an ion, we hit it with 493nm and 650nm lasers
(650nm is an off the shelf diode, 493 is a doubled diode using KTP) to
drive it's levels, and we look for the fluoresence. And, though I'm a
physics grad, I unfortunately have WAY less electronics experience than
I should (other than the super basics -- opamps and stuff).

Then I assume it's the dc-voltage on these electrodes you're driving,
with, I suppose, some sort of LC network to allow the RF drive onto
the electrodes, which I assume are resonantly driven (that's how we
do our traps and quadrupole guides). How many electrodes do you have?
Is there a paper describing this setup, or one that's similar?
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Oh, I DEFINITELY have a copy. We use piezos on all of our lasers
actually (referring to figure 3.75 -- 1kV low-power piezo driver)
though I shamefully say that all of our laser driving hardware is
bought, and not built (except for some of the PID locks). I just
didn't exactly know where to look for a power supply circuit like this
-- It should have hit me that driving a piezo is basically what I'm
trying to do (big capacitive load, no current).

Incidentally, in case anyone is interested, we're a neutrino physics
group at Stanford (http://www-project.slac.stanford.edu/exo/). I'm on
a team building a linear ion trap (for Barium actually), which is
basically a set of 4 segmented rods (15 segments each) that are driven
at about 1MHz@100Vpk-pk with a DC offset that needs to be controllable.
By changing the DC offset, you can move on ion around wherever you
need it.

Then just use the deflection amps from a 'scope. (well, maybe a couple
of 'scopes, or maybe a couple of dozen - do you have to drive each pair
of each segment individually?) A couple of hundred Vpp at almost no
current is what those guys were designed for. And the "position" control
gives you your DC offset. ;-)

After we trap an ion, we hit it with 493nm and 650nm lasers
(650nm is an off the shelf diode, 493 is a doubled diode using KTP) to
drive it's levels, and we look for the fluoresence. And, though I'm a
physics grad, I unfortunately have WAY less electronics experience than
I should (other than the super basics -- opamps and stuff).

Good Luck!
Rich
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
Fred Bloggs wrote...
I am not sure about that- Linear (IIRC) has at least one clever app
note where they show how to easily adapt one of their miniature boost
regulators to buck-boost mode. This is done by placing a P-MOSFET
between the boost output and load and then using the LBI/LBO logic and
FET as hysteretic controller when the converter goes into buck mode-
boost SW off and normally problematic Vin feedthrough directly to FET.

Sounds interesting, but y'all have to aim at something that's pretty
simple, more simple than the stripped-down linear circuits I posted.
Let's see some drawings and parts counts.
 
To be more detailed, the trap is 4 "rods", where each "rod" is actually
15 rod segments, each electrically isolated from the other, but very
close together.

Cross section:

o o
o o

Side view:
___ ___ ___
|___| |___| |___|
___ ___ ___ ...
|___| |___| |___|


each rod segment is ~ 3cm long, with a diameter of ~6mm. All rods have
to be driven at 1MHz, 100Vpkpk, and each set of 4 rods (e.g. the 4 in
the cross section view) are going to be at the same DC potential.

In order to drive the RF, I just built the following extremely simple
circuit

G1|\
+--|/--- -------------------
| ( ( | |
Vac ) ) --- ---
| ( ( ---Cmatch ---Ctrap
| ) ) | |
-------- -------------------
| N1 N2 |
GND L1 L2 GND
(wound toroid)

Where
(1) Vac is just an HP fuction generator (needs 50 Ohm output)
(2) G1 is a 50dB honkin RF amplifier (50 Ohm output)
(3) N1/N2 = 20:5 wound micrometals toroid transformer
(4) Cmatch is a variable cap for making sure that Ztot=50Ohm as seen by
G1
(5) Ctrap is the total capacitance of the rod segments (~500pF max)

I'll probably have to add a small resistor (10 Ohm?) somewhere in the
right hand side to lower the Q of the transformer, which is too high
right now. The tranformer does 2 things for me. First, it matches the
impedance so that the right hand side looks like 50Ohm to G1 (tweakable
by Cmatch) and it gives me voltage gain of ~ 4, so that if I want to
run Ctrap at 100Vpk-pk, then the power dissipated in this circuit is
only 12.5^2/50=3W.

Now, the obvious question is how to insert my DC supply (I'm building
it right now...) so that Ctrap sees the DC potential, but also so that
the RF doesn't go back into the DC circuit to kill it. I'm not
really sure how to do this yet... Possibly a bias-tee, but that's my
only idea.
 
As of yet there's no formal electrical design info on this trap yet
(though we've spent nearly $100k on it this last week!). That of
course was all on the custum vacuum system (oof!), turbo pumps, valves,
etc, (which I must confess, is much more my field)...

Up until now, we 've been operating a hyperbolic ion trap (toroid with
two hyperbolic endcaps makes the quadrupole field), and that was pretty
easy in terms of circuits, since you just have to put RF on the toroid
(~ 10MHz, 2kV pk-pk) which we do with a resonant circuit, and DC on the
electrodes (just 1 dc supply, and only about 10V). Though I admit that
I've actually melted some air-toroids that I've made...

I just posted some more details below on the circuit, but I assume that
I don't have to "buy" a crap load of bias-tees, and that I should be
able to make my own with inductors and caps, since good bias-tees
(minicircuits?) seem to be expensive.
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
John Fields wrote...
So you expect payment with an apology?

Apology? How so? My "fame" plus $2 gets me a cup of
coffee. I pay for my own coffee. As do you, I assume.
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jesse Wodin wrote ...
Incidentally, in case anyone is interested, we're a neutrino physics
group at Stanford (http://www-project.slac.stanford.edu/exo/). I'm
on a team building a linear ion trap (for Barium actually), which is
basically a set of 4 segmented rods (15 segments each) that are driven
at about 1MHz@100Vpk-pk with a DC offset that needs to be controllable.
By changing the DC offset, you can move on ion around wherever you
need it. After we trap an ion, we hit it with 493nm and 650nm lasers
(650nm is an off the shelf diode, 493 is a doubled diode using KTP) to
drive it's levels, and we look for the fluoresence. And, though I'm a
physics grad, I unfortunately have WAY less electronics experience than
I should (other than the super basics -- opamps and stuff).

J Wodin also wrote ...
As of yet there's no formal electrical design info on this trap yet
(though we've spent nearly $100k on it this last week!). That of
course was all on the custum vacuum system (oof!), turbo pumps,
valves, etc, (which I must confess, is much more my field)...

Up until now, we 've been operating a hyperbolic ion trap (toroid with
two hyperbolic endcaps makes the quadrupole field), and that was pretty
easy in terms of circuits, since you just have to put RF on the toroid
(~ 10MHz, 2kV pk-pk) which we do with a resonant circuit, and DC on the
electrodes (just 1 dc supply, and only about 10V). Though I admit that
I've actually melted some air-toroids that I've made...

I just posted some more details below on the circuit, but I assume that
I don't have to "buy" a crap load of bias-tees, and that I should be
able to make my own with inductors and caps, since good bias-tees
(minicircuits?) seem to be expensive.

[email protected] continued ...
To be more detailed, the trap is 4 "rods", where each "rod" is actually
15 rod segments, each electrically isolated from the other, but very
close together.

Cross section:

o o
o o

Side view:
___ ___ ___
|___| |___| |___|
___ ___ ___ ...
|___| |___| |___|


each rod segment is ~ 3cm long, with a diameter of ~6mm. All rods have
to be driven at 1MHz, 100Vpkpk, and each set of 4 rods (e.g. the 4 in
the cross section view) are going to be at the same DC potential.

In order to drive the RF, I just built the following extremely simple
circuit

G1|\
+--|/--- -------------------
| ( ( | |
Vac ) ) --- ---
| ( ( ---Cmatch ---Ctrap
| ) ) | |
-------- -------------------
| N1 N2 |
GND L1 L2 GND
(wound toroid)

Where
(1) Vac is just an HP fuction generator (needs 50 Ohm output)
(2) G1 is a 50dB honkin RF amplifier (50 Ohm output)
(3) N1/N2 = 20:5 wound micrometals toroid transformer
(4) Cmatch variable cap for making sure that Ztot=50Ohm as seen by G1
(5) Ctrap is the total capacitance of the rod segments (~500pF max)

I'll probably have to add a small resistor (10 Ohm?) somewhere in the
right hand side to lower the Q of the transformer, which is too high
right now. The tranformer does 2 things for me. First, it matches the
impedance so that the right hand side looks like 50Ohm to G1 (tweakable
by Cmatch) and it gives me voltage gain of ~ 4, so that if I want to
run Ctrap at 100Vpk-pk, then the power dissipated in this circuit is
only 12.5^2/50=3W.

Now, the obvious question is how to insert my DC supply (I'm building
it right now...) so that Ctrap sees the DC potential, but also so that
the RF doesn't go back into the DC circuit to kill it. I'm not
really sure how to do this yet... Possibly a bias-tee, but that's my
only idea.

Having had some experience in this area, I have a few comments.

I prefer to separate the resonating coil from the RF transformer.
That's because these perform difference roles, and benefit from
being separately optimized. For example, a high-Q coil is not bad,
it's good, provided its inductance value is reasonably-steady. A
small high-permeability pot core with a precision-ground air gap has
a temperature-independent value of A_L, and it lets you to make a
high-Q resonating coil that can be tuned by means of a small screw
tuning slug that's adjusted inside the gap (this is probably more
convenient than using a tuning capacitor). Pot cores are easy to
wind, and overall are superior to anything a toroid can offer, at
least for your frequency and voltage range. :>)

The capacitor C is selected taking the coax capacitance in mind.
It's best to minimize the total resonator capacitance, because
that reduces the circulating current. It's possible in some
cases that the coax capacitance alone will be sufficient for C.

.. simple, precision low-power RF electrode drive scheme
.. ____________
.. G n1:n2 ,-----+------------+---+--)___________}---|
.. __|\__ T | | | | coax electrode
.. | |/ | || # # _|_ | 1pF __
.. Vac # || # # L C --- '-||--)__ coax carries RF
.. |______| || # # | voltage-monitor
.. gapless | | Cdc | sig to cap. divider
.. pot core '--+--+---||--(#)--+-- gnd
.. | \ \
.. | gapped current transformer
.. dc bias --\/\/--' pot core or small sense resistor

A high-Q resonator allows the transformer T to control the voltage
across the electrodes without requiring it to carry the high RF
resonator currents. The transformer should be a tightly-coupled
(i.e. low leakage inductance), but with a magnetizing inductance
that's high compared to L, so it's not too much a part of the
resonating circuit. Its windings will contribute to C.

The amplifier G should have a low output impedance, to force the
output voltage amplitude, independent from any slight mistuning of
the coil. It won't be supplying much power, assuming a high-Q coil.
A very important point: trying to enforce a 50-ohm pathway is not
advantageous to the primary goal of enforcing a set output voltage.
I like APEX PA09 hybrid amplifiers, which are happy delivering 10W
at 1MHz, but simple class-A emitter-followers with CS pulldown can
also work well and are much cheaper.

Cdc is a 200V ceramic capacitor to isolate the DC bias voltage.
It's physically small but looks like a short at RF.

(BTW, An appropriately-designed RF balun transformer can be used
to modify the above scheme for balanced RF electrode drive.)

I use a small cap to sample the RF output voltage, this cap is the
top part of a capacitive divider that includes some shield and coax
capacitance. I usually give up on trying to make the capacitance
divider a certain ratio, like 100:1, and settle on getting an RF
monitoring voltage somewhere below my goal, say 700mV or so, and
follow this with a trimpot cal adjustment on the necessary 50-ohm
output buffer amplifier. All this is located near the resonator.

.. --+------ 100V RF
.. | ~0.7V
.. | ~1pF ___6" coax / __ 2.0V 1.0V
.. '--||--)___)--+----+-----|+ \ / 50 / 1/100
.. about _|_ | | >----+---/\/\---- calibrated
.. 130pF --- 1k ,-|-_/ | RF-monitor to
.. total | | | 1.0k | 50-ohm term.
.. gnd gnd +--/\/\----'
.. '--/\/\--/\/\--- gnd
.. 249 500 trimpot

Most CFB-type opamps are happy with this circuit's 100-ohm load.

It's useful to have a current-sampling resistor or current transformer
to allow for phase-checking the resonance tuning at any point in time,
although simply peaking the RF output voltage during tuneup procedures
works fine; the subsequent drift will be small and its effect largely
overcome by the amplifier's low Z-out and the transformer's low L-ell.

BTW, I do prefer toroid cores for making RF current transformers. :>)

Well, spring is here and it's planting time for our garden, so I'm
going outside and switching to dirt-man mode.
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
Winfield Hill wrote...
I use a small cap to sample the RF output voltage, this cap is the
top part of a capacitive divider that includes some shield and coax
capacitance. I usually give up on trying to make the capacitance
divider a certain ratio, like 100:1, and settle on getting an RF
monitoring voltage somewhere below my goal, say 700mV or so, and
follow this with a trimpot cal adjustment on the necessary 50-ohm
output buffer amplifier. All this is located near the resonator.

. --+------ 100V RF
. | ~0.7V
. | ~1pF ___6" coax / __ 2.0V 1.0V
. '--||--)___)--+----+-----|+ \ / 50 / 1/100
. about _|_ | | >----+---/\/\---- calibrated
. 130pF --- 50k ,-|-_/ | RF-monitor to
. total | | | 1.0k | 50-ohm term.
. gnd gnd +--/\/\----'
. | 249 500 trimpot
. '--/\/\--/\/\--- gnd
. [note corrected 50k]

Most CFB-type opamps are happy with this circuit's 100-ohm load.

Correction:
The dc-bias resistor for the opamp above needs to be at least 50k,
to allow RF measurements down to ~100kHz for the capacitive-divider
values shown, 1k was far too small. Some CFB opamps have low bias
currents on the + input, or use a high-performance JFET opamp.
 
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
John Fields wrote...

Apology? How so? My "fame" plus $2 gets me a cup of
coffee. I pay for my own coffee. As do you, I assume.

---
Well, since he said he was sorry that sounded to me like an apology,
and then when you said "Hah, that and $2 gets me a cup of coffee." it
sounded to me like you were saying that his apology and $2 would get
you a cup of coffee. IOW, that his apology was worthless. Get it? It
was a play on words, an attempt at humor, a _JOKE_ . I guess I should
have put a smiley in there somewhere to make it really, really, really
obvious. BTW, I don't pay for your coffee, as do you. ;-) ;-) ;-)
 
I just wanted to say thanks to all of you guys who gave me some help.
Got a good start and some work to do now! (Stupid springtime makes it
hard for grad students to work in their basements...)
 
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