Star Shower motion button bypass

[LouF]

The Star Shower Motion laser decoration light has a motion button that toggles the motion on and off. Upon shutting off the power (either by switch or timer) the motion needs to be manually started. It appears to be a soft-switch, and I was thinking of trying to bypass it with, possibly, a capacitor. My thought is that upon power-up, current could flow simulating a manual push, and as it is charged the current flow would be impeded; I don't think a hard-switch would be the way to go. Any thoughts?

 

[CircuitMaster]

Thats done on purpose.

A relay or Timer555 would be better. What is the power supply? If its "5VDC" a "T trigger" will do the job.

 

[kellys_eye]

Do you have any technical information for the controller? A schematic perhaps? We need to know what the button actually does.... if it is a 'signal' source it is often possible to use a capacitor/resistor to create a start pulse.

 

[LouF]

No schematic found. From one "hack", someone apparently ran it from a USB, so I'm assuming 5VDC. A pulse is exactly what I was thinking of trying to produce.

 

[kellys_eye]

A simple RC arrangement on a digital input pin will provide a 'switch-on reset' but without knowing the arrangement of the circuitry this might be risky.

Potentially, and only potentially, if the switch has 5V across it during normal use then placing a small capacitor (say 100nF) across the switch contacts might be sufficient to get that pulse. The capacitor value might need changing (anywhere from the stated 100nF to 1μF is possible) but I stress, this is EXPERIMENTAL and conditional on 5V being present across the OPEN switch contacts when powered up.

 

[LouF]

Understood.

FWIW, if found these pictures: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?412179-Upping-the-power-on-a-Star-Shower-Christmas-laser-light-projector

 

[LouF]

Thats done on purpose.

A relay or Timer555 would be better. What is the power supply? If its "5VDC" a "T trigger" will do the job.

The device is supplied with 5VDC, and the switch appears to be operating with ~2.8VDC. I tried capacitors (47uF 16V and 1uF 50V, separately), and it did not work. Plus, I forgot that they will hold the charge. Shorting the contacts with a capacitor in place still toggled on/off motion.

I was hoping to do a simple solution using fundamental components, but I see this may not cut it.

 

[LouF]

Do you have any technical information for the controller? A schematic perhaps? We need to know what the button actually does.... if it is a 'signal' source it is often possible to use a capacitor/resistor to create a start pulse.

No, could not find any information. It seems the button provides a change that is sensed. I can explain further, but I think you get it, and I wouldn't be able to provide the actual information you are talking about. I can only describe that it appears to be a bubble-contact type switch (feels, sounds), and it will conduct while depressed; pressing of the switch toggles on/off of this device's "motion" (a motor that provides kaleidoscope-type action); continued depression acts as one press, and it does not seem to damage the circuit or change function while being continually pressed. Action happens at first press, not on release.

 

[LouF]

A simple RC arrangement on a digital input pin will provide a 'switch-on reset' but without knowing the arrangement of the circuitry this might be risky.

Potentially, and only potentially, if the switch has 5V across it during normal use then placing a small capacitor (say 100nF) across the switch contacts might be sufficient to get that pulse. The capacitor value might need changing (anywhere from the stated 100nF to 1μF is possible) but I stress, this is EXPERIMENTAL and conditional on 5V being present across the OPEN switch contacts when powered up.

The switch has ~2.8VDC across it in normal use (the device is supplied with 5VDC). At the board, I tried capacitors across the switch (47uF 16V and 1uF 50V, separately), and it did not simulate a button push. Plus, I forgot that they will hold the charge. Shorting the contacts with a capacitor in place still toggled the device's motion on/off motion. (Reading charge across the capacitor with voltmeter after the all was shut off showed voltage dropping (until 0V)).

 

[CircuitMaster]

A trigger will still do. The trigger will stay powered, because you will be activating its "set" pin. That will give a permanent 5VDC to the output of the trigger.

 

[LouF]

A trigger will still do. The trigger will stay powered, because you will be activating its "set" pin. That will give a permanent 5VDC to the output of the trigger.

I am just a tinkerer trying to get some familiarity and capability in electronics and may know only know enough to be dangerous (or a pest). My question about this now is: assuming this has to do with transistor PNP or NPN action in the circuit, does this switch provide a drain of the chip, or is it supplying a voltage to something.

I am not familiar with something like this T-trigger, but I found similar wording (not exactly e.g. T flip-flop). I also came across talk about thyristors. Since the switch closes a circuit, will this T-trigger function as close?

Relay: the whole unit is only supplied by a 5VDC, 2A external power supply. Are you meaning a coil-type relay?

Also, may an inductor across the switch be a way to go?

 

[LouF]

A simple RC arrangement on a digital input pin ....

I have it working, but I haven't found a consistent time to use, especially from a dead start-up.
I'm using 100uF cap. and I'm estimating a 63k resistance. 6>t>2 seconds works at times.

 

[CircuitMaster]

The t trigger (T flip-flop is the same) when it receives a "5VDC" TTL voltage on its "Set" pin, it establishes its "Q" output in "5VDC" and stays that way. If it received a "5VDC" TTL voltage on its "Reset" pin, it establishes its "Q" output in "0VDC" and stays that way.

If you want to switch the state of the "Q" output pin, all you have to do is apply an impulse to the clock pin for a short time (mS). That way you do not need to use the "Set" and "Reset" pins, but at every clock impulse the "Q" output will change.

 

[Bruce34R]

Is it possible to just connect the wires to the button so circuit is always closed, (and motion is always on)?

 

[LouF]

I don't think that will work.

 

[Harald Kapp]

@Bruce34R : It is usually not recommended to resurrect a two year old thread. You're lucky the op replied

 

[LouF]

@Bruce34R : It is usually not recommended to resurrect a two year old thread.

I'm very glad this is possible. Perhaps the latest commenter is trying to do the same thing seeing this topic was found at the time of the year the issue comes up. I'm actually glad they took the time to try. I never have made a good solution to this.

 

[LouF]

Is it possible to just connect the wires to the button so circuit is always closed, (and motion is always on)?

Updating this reply: No, a constant short across the switch will not work, but the above RC does semi-haphazardly work.

I did this for my father so I don't have daily experience with its functionality. He says it usually works after 2-3 times (of a learned timing) - I was happy to know it is of some use because going out to press the button each day is a drag. The inconsistency confuses me, but I don't have the time to tinker with it. As I recall, one issue is the unit's power-up delay needed before motion activation is ready for selection; then its a matter of acceptable current flow magnitude and duration, hence, the capacitor sizing.

(As a reminder, the reason that this is needed is because the 120V power is shut off to the unit; otherwise, the motion setting is retained with the unit's on-off switch, only. I would think this is a peeve for many.)

 

[TechNo]

Is it possible to just connect the wires to the button so circuit is always closed, (and motion is always on)?

In this case the result would be a constant toggle, where the motion would go on for approximately 2 seconds, the motion would stop for 2 seconds, the motion would start for 2 seconds. While this might be a quick and dirty change to get some motion, it isn't the desired outcome.

 

[TechNo]

I'm very glad this is possible. Perhaps the latest commenter is trying to do the same thing seeing this topic was found at the time of the year the issue comes up. I'm actually glad they took the time to try. I never have made a good solution to this.

Hi LouF, Turns out I have 2 of these units. The earlier one I purchased does "remember" the setting, and when the timer turns it on it is in motion, no need to stroll across the lawn to push the red button. I think it actually remembers if after sitting year in the box, but that isn't important (a single push of the red button each year is tolerable). The 2nd one does not "remember" the setting. I have them both open so in a day or two will report on what is actually different. I looked at them at two different times, if I recall correctly the board inside is the same, I will look across the components.

That said, I am interested in your 1uF capacitor solution. I saw your pictures on www.electro-tech-online.com. But somewhere you said that this is at your father's house, and it takes 2 or 3 times to get it working (I can't find your actual quote.) Can you let me know what you meant. Does it take 2 or 3 start times before is evens out and works pretty consistently? Is there any manual operation outside of the timer that might be required on occasion?

Once I get these two units open side-by-side, I will message back since I have now taken them down. Maybe I will find something else to do, but your solution if robust enough is certainly quick and easy. Thanks.