Recomendation for reliable inexpensive monitoring service.

[alarman]

I intentionally create falses about once a week to make
sure they're keeping on the ball.

**** you and everyone who looks like you.
js

 

[Doug]

Even with our combined IQ you seem unable to grasp such a simple premise,

You stated that

They never care who is doing the monitoring and they especially don't care
whether it's UL station five states away or another UL station in the same
town and
The town in question has written an ordinance not designed to keep

The city of Livermore cared, in a since revoked ordinance that stated in
part

All fire sprinkler system(s) alarm devices, which may include water flow and
valve tamper, shall be connected to Livermore Communication Center or other
approved U.L. listed Central Station approved by the Fire Prevention Bureau.
Other approved U.L. listed and CSFM Central station shall mean U.L. listed
Central Station physically located within the City limits of Livermore.

and they especially cared if it was five states away or outside City limits.

Both of your statements are incorrect, but its OK to make a mistake, its
not a big deal just shrug your shoulders and admit you were wrong, trust me
I won't think any less of you for it.

Doug

 

[Frank Olson]

I intentionally create falses about once a week to make
sure they're keeping on the ball.

That's gotta be one of the dumbest things I've ever seen anyone post.
Beats Bass' "Attention Burglar. Go ahead, make my day" Napco LCD keypad
post. How long you been workin' for "NextAlarm"?

 

[Robert L Bass]

Even with our combined IQ you seem

unable to grasp such a simple premise,

For someone trying to show another up regarding intelligence, you'd think you'd at least learn the difference between premise and
premises. Hint: the one is not the plural of the other.

You stated that...

The AHJ's don't care. (short version)

The city of Livermore cared...

Livermore is not an AHJ. It's a town. However, the NBFAA (you remember them, right?) proved in court that the town was not really
trying to mandate using a local monitoring company. The ordinance was a thinly disghuised attempt to make the city itself the
*only* provider.

in a since revoked ordinance...

The fact that it was already revoked made your point another classic red herring. The fact that you tried to use a revoked
ordinance to prove your point is indicative of your dishonest way of arguing. It a practically olsonic twist of the facts.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Doug]

Premise-definition
The underlying rationale for an argument or proposal.

Premise: n. also prem·iss (prms)
1. A proposition upon which an argument is based or from which a conclusion
is drawn.
2. Logic
a. One of the propositions in a deductive argument.
b. Either the major or the minor proposition of a syllogism, from which the
conclusion is drawn.
3. premises Law The preliminary or explanatory statements or facts of a
document, as in a deed.

Here, I'll include it in a sentence to help you understand.

I've no need to show you up regarding your obvious lack of intelligence, you
do that very well without any help from me, the premise to my conclusion is
that you have attempted to ridicule someone's use of a word, while clearly
being unaware of its meaning yourself.

As luck would have it, I also found an example of premises being used as a
plural of premise.

Syllogism-Definition:
1. in logic, a type of deductive reasoning based on a major
and a minor premise, whose conclusion must be true if the two premises are
true.


Doug

 

[Doug]

Premise-definition
The underlying rationale for an argument or proposal.

Premise: n. also prem·iss (prms)
1. A proposition upon which an argument is based or from which a conclusion
is drawn.
2. Logic
a. One of the propositions in a deductive argument.
b. Either the major or the minor proposition of a syllogism, from which the
conclusion is drawn.
3. premises Law The preliminary or explanatory statements or facts of a
document, as in a deed.

Here, I'll include it in a sentence to help you understand.

I've no need to show you up regarding your obvious lack of intelligence, you
do that very well without any help from me, the premise to my conclusion is
that you have attempted to ridicule someone's use of a word, while clearly
being unaware of its meaning yourself.

As luck would have it, I also found an example of premises being used as a
plural of premise.

Syllogism-Definition:
1. in logic, a type of deductive reasoning based on a major
and a minor premise, whose conclusion must be true if the two premises are
true.


Doug

--

 

[Robert L Bass]

It was a joke, Bug.

 

[Jim]

It was a joke, Bug.

Yeh ....... sure.

All your mistakes are "jokes".

That's why everyone is constantly laughing to themselves .... about
you.

 

[Doug]

Sorry, I didn't recognise it as such, I'm used to jokes being funny

Doug

 

[Jim]

How does one make a 41 character display on a zone description on a Napco
keypad?
Attention Burglar.  Go ahead, make my day
'Attn Burglar go ahead make my day' is 33
What's the trick?
'Hey Burglar go ahead make my day' works.
As a Ready Message only it's too long.
Area Description and Ready Message?

I guess you weren't around yet.

Bass went off on one of his " I can do anything better than anyone
else" rants ..... describing how he'd programed a Napco Keypad to say
something that everyone knew he couldn't have done. I caught him on it
and he hasn't said a word about his big lie since. It's no biggie
except that it shows what a habitual and slimey liar he is. Can't even
tell a simple little story with out making himself into some superhero.


But, as with all liars, their quest to puff up their low self esteem,
they eventually forget that when the number of lies increase, that the
number of times they're going to get caught increases also. That they
can't get away with it all the time. And they also eventually forget
what lie they told to who .... and when.

Through the years he's been caught again and again, telling outright
lies, half truths, and especially making statements that end users will
interpret in a derogatory way, to promote having systems installed
rather than DYI. This is exactly what is so arrogant and sinister about
the SOB. He's so practiced at being a two faced bastard that he doesn't
even have to think about what he's doing. It's integrated into his
personality ( if you can actually think of someone as offensive at that
as having a personality) It just rolls out of his fat blubbery lips
like the old snake oil hucksters.

It takes awhile Roland, but eventually anyone who comes to this
Newsgroup new, if they stick around for awhile, eventually learns
exactly why ..... it's the way it is.

 

[Petem]

did killing an innocent woman was joke too?

did pointing a gun or simulate of one at someone was a joke too?

bad the judge didn't believed you..too bad we don't believe you either
now...

 

[Frank Olson]

I don't get it. Why BS about something that silly? What's the point? Why
would a burglar be looking at a keypad in the first place? Why would a
burglar be intimidated by such a message? If the burglar had already gotten
to that point and was comfortable enough to be reading keypad messages like
that (versus alarm zone messages scrolling on the keypad) I don't think he
would be the one in trouble.

I "don't get it" either. What's really funny about this particular
"installation fairy tale" is that no one in what Bass terms "the IB"
picked up on it until Bob La Londe asked him how he managed to do it.
Bass, BTW, still hasn't offered an explanation except to make his
typical vague reference ("it's in the manual").

 

[Frank Olson]

IOW, you lie. wrote:

You're a lying sack of fat shit, bAss. The BBB will only accept
complaints from *customers* of the business in question. They require
/proof/ that there is a legitimate claim AND proof the complainant has
actually done business with the complaintee.

I can say with 100% accuracy that either of the above have ever
purchased nor contracted to purchase any of your wares.

Now why would I purchase product from some nimrod in Florida when I can
get all the product I need from behind my own counter? ;-)

"IOW's" right. Bass is a lying sack of shit. The BBB doesn't handle
complaints from individuals that can't provide an invoice or contract
that establishes they're legitimate customers of the business they're
reporting about. For Bass to continue to spew nonsense about me and
Graham being behind all these complaints is way beyond me. If Bass had
any such evidence he'd post it for all to see. The fact that he hasn't
simply proves he's a lying sack of shit. Moreover, the BBB's stated
that "the company has responded to some of the complaints" and their
website clearly lists what type of complaints they've received and the
fact that (in several instances) the complainant has acknowledged "the
problem" has been resolved.

"26" complaints in the last three years. They opened their file on his
multiple businesses in 2002. If you conservatively estimate "8"
complaints a year, that's "16" that have spooled off their radar (they
only track complaints for three years). That's a total of 42 complaints
which is an unacceptable amount for the size of business Bass runs.
He's taken on "extra staff" and stated he's a lot more "responsive" to
his customers, yet the count keeps rising. Tsk!!

 

[Robert L Bass]

I don't get it. Why BS about something that silly?

This is ASA.

What's the point?

It was a joke I played on the pastor of the church. I abbreviated part of it (don't recall exactly; this was quite a few years
ago). The irony was that instead of the pastor seeing it first one of the parishioners got freaked out, thinking it meant there was
a burglar in the building.

 

[Frank Olson]

This is ASA.

In other words, you feel free to "BS" all you want here because this is
"ASA"?

It was a joke I played on the pastor of the church. I abbreviated part of it...

Oh, *that* explains it. Right. I thought you might have had to program
the keypad while inverted.

 

[Jim]

ago).  The irony was that instead of the pastor seeing it first one of the parishioners got freaked out, thinking it meant there was
a burglar in the building.

What's really humorous is that every time you get caught telling a lie
or making a mistake, ...... you say it was a joke.

Didja just happen to notice that ..... by the way?

I guess it's not easy being green. Eh? or a liar either. It's gotta be
hard work defending yourself all the time. Making up excuses and
telling more lies to cover up the first lie.

I presume you're turning a bit green now, aren't you? That's gotta be a
big come down from ....... pink. Next stage is sort of greyish, I
think. Then black ......
and then body parts start to fall off.

 

[Bob La Londe]

The local vs. remote monitoring argument has been going on for decades.
Local guys with tiny businesses argue that local is better. Companies
using large, professional monitoring centers argue that their way is
better. The reality is that there is no difference at all. There are
good and bad local outfits and there are good and bad remote outfits.

I rarely jump into your arguements with Jim, but your own "level of
complexity arguement" used previously in refference to wireless contradicts
this point.

For a local signal to fail to get through through the local service must
fail in some manner. For a remote signal to fail to get through either the
local service or the remote service can fail. More possible links to fail
so more chance of a failure.

That being said, phone service, both local and long distance have become so
reliable that its not a huge issue either way. Still in recent years I have
seen entire local phone exchanges go down, and I have seen all long distance
services to a city fail because somebody cut a cross country fiber optic
line.

I must admit that like with good quality modern wireless installed by
somebody who takes the time to do it right the difference is very very
small, but there is a difference.

Of course the biggest contributor to signal failure is the customer
themselves. Vaction rated lines, unpaid phone bills, switch to VOIP, or
additon of DSL to the line etc.

--
Sincerly,
The guy who makes the final decision on who we buy from.
Bob La Londe

The Security Consultant
Bob La Londe - Owner
PO BOX 5702
Yuma, Az 85366

(928) 782-9765 ofc
(928) 782-7873 fax

Licensed Contractor
ROC103044 & ROC103047

 

[Robert L Bass]

The local vs. remote monitoring argument has been going on for decades. Local guys with tiny businesses argue that local is

I rarely jump into your arguements with Jim, but your own "level of complexity arguement" used previously in refference to
wireless contradicts this point.

For a local signal to fail to get through through the local service must fail in some manner. For a remote signal to fail to get
through either the local service or the remote service can fail. More possible links to fail so more chance of a failure.

That being said, phone service, both local and long distance have become so reliable that its not a huge issue either way. Still
in recent years I have seen entire local phone exchanges go down, and I have seen all long distance services to a city fail
because somebody cut a cross country fiber optic line.

I must admit that like with good quality modern wireless installed by somebody who takes the time to do it right the difference is
very very small, but there is a difference.

Of course the biggest contributor to signal failure is the customer themselves. Vaction rated lines, unpaid phone bills, switch
to VOIP, or additon of DSL to the line etc.

You are entirely correct, Bob. The difference exists but it is so small as to be negligible. The same can almost be said about
wireless. There are differences in performance, reliability, equipment cost and life expectancy of wireless vs. wired systems.
Wired alarms take longer to install and in an existing structure choice of sensor locations may be less flexible. Other than that
wired has the edge over wireless on all counts. The largest issue used to be reliability. Older wireless systems were subject to
all sorts of problems. Newer, high quality wireless has all but eliminated those issues. The complexity problem never goes away.
It's a simple principle that the more stuff you need to get a signal from point A to point B, the more likely it is that something
will fail.

The real drawback to wireless alarms is that sooner or later the manufacturer will withdraw support for a given line. That is
inevitable. There's no getting around it. Once it happens, the first component failure can force a complete replacement of the
system. Also, if the homeowner adds a door or window, parts may be unavailable. One manufacturer, DSC, decided to replace their
900 mHz wireless alarms with 433 mHz a few years ago. They were entirely open about the reason for the change. They could save a
few cents per transmitter. Try to replace a 900 mHz door transmitter or even a keyfob.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Jim]

You are entirely correct, Bob.  The difference exists but it is so small as to be negligible.  The same can almost be said about
wireless.  There are differences in performance, reliability, equipmentcost and life expectancy of wireless vs. wired systems.
Wired alarms take longer to install and in an existing structure choice of sensor locations may be less flexible.  Other than that
wired has the edge over wireless on all counts.  The largest issue usedto be reliability.  Older wireless systems were subject to
all sorts of problems.  Newer, high quality wireless has all but eliminated those issues.  The complexity problem never goes away.
It's a simple principle that the more stuff you need to get a signal frompoint A to point B, the more likely it is that something
will fail.

The real drawback to wireless alarms is that sooner or later the manufacturer will withdraw support for a given line.  That is
inevitable.  There's no getting around it.  Once it happens, the first component failure can force a complete replacement of the
system.  Also, if the homeowner adds a door or window, parts may be unavailable.  One manufacturer, DSC, decided to replace their
900 mHz wireless alarms with 433 mHz a few years ago.  They were entirely open about the reason for the change.  They could save a
few cents per transmitter.  Try to replace a 900 mHz door transmitter or even a keyfob.

--

You still don't know what the **** you're talking about. Primarily
because you never installed wireless systems and you don't know
anything about the latest technology.

Are there more components in wireless systems?
Why of course there are.
Does that mean that there is more of a chance that something will fail
as compared to a hardwired system?
Yes.
Is the life expectancy of todays components at least 100 times longer
than the expected time an alarm system will be used.
YES!
Therefore the more components / more likely to fail argument for not
using todays wireless systems is invalid. By that theory the control
panels with the thousands of microcircuits, that we use today, should
be failing after a few months of use,as compared to the relay panels
of yesteryear.

As far as manufacturers discontinuing a product, it's true that
eventually a wireless "system" may be discontinued. However, if an
installing company has any real concern for his clients, he'll make
sure that he has a standby reserve of parts and accessories. And as
the usual course for a discontinued product the manufacturer will
maintain repair service for a period of at least a year or more after
the halt of manufacturing the line. It's up to the installing company
to get product repaired while he can and to hold on to equipment that
may be pulled out of existing jobs.

I still maintain a few of the old Ademco 5600 wireless systems I
installed 25 or more years ago, with control panels, transmiters, and
keypads and other components, that I've salvaged from jobs and other
installation companies.

You're wrong.

Try as you may .... you're still wrong.

 

[Robert L Bass]

The local vs. remote monitoring argument has been going on for decades. Local guys with tiny businesses argue that local is

You are entirely correct, Bob. The difference exists but it is so small as to be negligible. The same can almost be said about
wireless. There are differences in performance, reliability, equipment cost and life expectancy of wireless vs. wired systems.
Wired alarms take longer to install and in an existing structure choice of sensor locations may be less flexible. Other than that
wired has the edge over wireless on all counts. The largest issue used to be reliability. Older wireless systems were subject to
all sorts of problems. Newer, high quality wireless has all but eliminated those issues. The complexity problem never goes away.
It's a simple principle that the more stuff you need to get a signal from point A to point B, the more likely it is that something
will fail.

The real drawback to wireless alarms is that sooner or later the manufacturer will withdraw support for a given line. That is
inevitable. There's no getting around it. Once it happens, the first component failure can force a complete replacement of the
system. Also, if the homeowner adds a door or window, parts may be unavailable. One manufacturer, DSC, decided to replace their
900 mHz wireless alarms with 433 mHz a few years ago. They were entirely open about the reason for the change. They could save a
few cents per transmitter. Try to replace a 900 mHz door transmitter or even a keyfob.

Jiminex (who does wireless because he has no idea how to do anything else) dribbled:

You still don't know what the **** you're talking about. Primarily because you never installed wireless systems and you don't know
anything about the latest technology.

Actually, I've installed wired and wireless systms for years. I prefer wired systems because they're more reliable and because I
can hide almost everything. Wireless systems are more noticeable with plastic boxes at every door and window. New, recessed
transmitters help somewhat but are largely unusable with most modern windows.

Are there more components in wireless systems? Why of course there are.

You learned that from me.

Does that mean that there is more of a chance that something will fail as compared to a hardwired system? Yes.

I see you learned two things. That is good. You're making progress. Why in no time at all we may even have you trained to feed
yourself real food.

Is the life expectancy of todays components at least 100 times longer than the expected time an alarm system will be used.

Nope. That's just plain ridiculous.

Therefore the more components / more likely to fail argument for not using todays wireless systems is invalid.

I probably wouldn't be able to teach this concept to you. It's a little beyond "See Spot Run 101."

By that theory the control panels with the thousands of microcircuits, that we use today, should be failing after a few months of
use,as compared to the relay panels

of yesteryear.

I have a little surprise for you, Jimbo. Anythying else more complex than than the next thing *of otherwise equal quality* is more
likely to fail than the simpler item. Since most wireless systems are add-ons to hybrid alarms, they are by definition more
complex. The control panel is the same and has a given possibility of failure on any given day. The wireless receiver and
transmitters each have a specific probability of failure. Combining them with the panel *by definition* increases the likelihood of
a failure.

As far as manufacturers discontinuing a product, it's true that

eventually a wireless "system" may be discontinued.

Even a wireless line thqt works with a continuing line of panels can and will be discontinued at some point. For example, the
Ademco (now Honeywell) Vista panels used to work with their 5700 series wireless. They changed to 5800 series and guess what. The
new panels don't support 5700. Not only that but the 5700 series components are no longer sold by the manufacturer. I get calls
every week from homeowners whose older Ademco Vista systems need new or replacment transmitters. They're just plain JOL.

However, if an installing company has any real concern for his clients, he'll make sure that he has a standby reserve of parts and
accessories.

Yeah, sure. That's why we're constantly fielding calls from end users whose "professionally" installed alarms are now
unserviceable.

And as the usual course for a discontinued product the manufacturer will maintain repair service for a period of at least a year

A year?!? Are you nuts? No need to reply. We already know. You put in a new system for Mrs. Jones and a year later she calls
because she's adding a room. "Sorry, Mrs. Jones. Jiminex Security will be happy to sell you a whole new system. Just sign on the
dotted line." Do your vict.. err, customers wince when you draw their blood for the signature?

or more after the halt of manufacturing the line. It's up to the installing company to get product repaired while he can and to
hold on to equipment that may be pulled out of existing jobs.

So you admit you sell used stuff! You really are a crook, Jiminex. It's a good thing you post anonymously. If your victimes saw
this they'd file a class action lawsuit. They might eve repossess your rowboat.

I still maintain... [snip bullfrank]