Recomendation for reliable inexpensive monitoring service.

[Martin Hirsch]

Hi

Looking for better pricing than the 25-30 they want locally for alarm
monitoring. Found many doing a Google search but can't determine who is
good/bad.

 

[Robert L Bass]

Looking for better pricing than the 25-30 they want locally for alarm monitoring. Found many doing a Google search but can't

determine who is good/bad.

Try these guys. A number of my DIY customers use them. So far all have spoken well of them. http://911alarm.com

Stay away from anyone who insists on having programming access to your system. Some companies will lock you out of your system by
changing the access code as a prerequisite to monitoring your system. The problem is that some of them will refuse to change it
back after the contract expires unless you pay them a fat fee, which IMO is tantamount to larceny.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[tourman]

See .... www.themonitoringcentre.ca

Service is $10 a month annual prepaid. Don't even think about asking
them for service though; they use subs in each city, some of whom are
good, and others don't know poop from paint !

Good monitoring service though.....

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
www.homemetal.com
(Temporarily basking in sunshine in Florida....motorcycling in
January.....damn that feels good !!!)

 

[Jim]

Hi

Looking for better pricing than the 25-30 they want locally for alarm
monitoring. Found many doing a Google search but can't determine who is
good/bad.

And neither can anyone here. It's really kind of difficult to know how
you, as an end user, is going to be treated, as differentiated from an
installing dealer, by a central station. Some may defer to installers
...... some may not. The problem is, you, as an end user, don't know
which is which.

Keep in mind that if you aren't intimately familiar with your control
panel and alarm installation, that obtaining monitoring service direct,
will eliminate or, at least, greatly reduce your source of repair
service. If you do get someone to do repair, you can pretty much count
on the fact that they're going to charge you much higher fees than they
would their regular monitored customers.

The other thing I kind of feel uneasy about is having someone far away,
or in another state monitor an alarm system. Dealing with someone who's
monitoring my alarm system seems to lend it self to doing business with
someone in your area. Not that someone from another state is not going
to do as good or a better job than someone locally, ..... it's just
that I feel better about having the ability to "go there" and see what
their business looks like and know that I'm dealing with someone who's
running a viable business. And if there's a problem, I'd like to know
that I can go there and actually hold a face to face conversation with
a manager, rather than a remote voice on the telephone. I think that
people who are familiar with the area that you are in, have a better
"feel" about reporting to authorities and know what's happening during
storms and other local emergencies much better than someone who's not.
So, at the least, I'd suggest that if you have a choice, try to find a
Central as near to you, as possible, if service is not a problem.

These are just some things I thought you might want to consider.

For some, the savings of a few dollars is more important.

 

[Robert L Bass]

Looking for better pricing than the 25-30 they want locally for alarm

And neither can anyone here. It's
really kind of difficult to know how
you, as an end user, is going to
be treated, as differentiated from
an installing dealer, by a central
station. Some may defer to installers
..... some may not. The problem is,
you, as an end user, don't know
which is which.

That is the same problem which the gentleman would face if he were to select a local firm. There's no way to know if they're good,
bad or you until it's too late. As a DIYer at least he can control who has access to his system.

Keep in mind that if you aren't intimately
familiar with your control panel and alarm
installation, that obtaining monitoring
service direct, will eliminate or, at least,
greatly reduce your source of repair
service...

No one, DIYer or paid installer *repairs*
alarm control panels. They are either
sent in to the factory or replaced. If any
other component fails it's a simple matter
to remove and replace it. This isn't
rocket science.

If you do get someone to do repair,
you can pretty much count on the
fact that they're going to charge you
much higher fees than they would
their regular monitored customers.

That is yet another reason to DIY.

The other thing I kind of feel uneasy
about is having someone far away,
or in another state monitor an alarm
system...

Nonsense! The central station receiver gets signals by telephone. In this day and age it is ludicrous to pretend that there's any
difference between placing a local or 800 number call.

The local vs. remote monitoring argument has been going on for decades. Local guys with tiny businesses argue that local is better.
Companies using large, professional monitoring centers argue that their way is better. The reality is that there is no difference
at all. There are good and bad local outfits and there are good and bad remote outfits.

There is one difference that the previous poster failed to mention. If the gentleman signs with some local alarm dealer he's stuck
using whatever central station they choose. The contract even allows them to change stations without the customer's consent if they
find one that will do it for a dollar less. If he goes the DIY route he can decide which station to use. If he doesn't like them,
he can change at will.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[FIRETEK]

No one, DIYer or paid installer *repairs*
alarm control panels. They are either
sent in to the factory or replaced. If any
other component fails it's a simple matter
to remove and replace it. This isn't
rocket science.

No, but finding out the source of the trouble often takes someone with
experience and the right tools.

That is yet another reason to DIY.

Sure. He'll spend "hours" of his time findng the problem where it might
take a trained technician 15 minutes. He'll then have to wait three weeks
for some on line store to arrange to drop ship the part he thinks is faulty
to his house. And if that part happens to require warranty service, he'll
have to wait another six weeks before he can get a replacement.

Find a local company that's familiar with your equipment to provide service.
You may spend a few more dollars (if it's not monitored), but at least
you'll know the job's in capable hands. And before you call the "local",
check them out with the BBB. Ask your neighbours who they use and what kind
of service to expect.

Nonsense! The central station receiver gets signals by telephone. In

this day and age it is ludicrous to pretend that there's any

difference between placing a local or 800 number call.

There's a huge difference if the station isn't acceptable to the local AHJ.
Call the local police department, fire and ambulance services and find out
what station is or is not acceptable. If you are going to use an 800
service, make sure they know about local ordinances that could affect your
service.

The local vs. remote monitoring argument has been going on for decades.

Local guys with tiny businesses argue that local is better.

It often is. Particularly in the fire prevention industry.

Companies using large, professional monitoring centers argue that their

way is better. The reality is that there is no difference

at all.

On the contrary, there are huge differences between a central that employs
licensed and certified staff as opposed to some "mom and pop" that's run out
of a garage somewhere.

There are good and bad local outfits and there are good and bad remote

outfits.

True. But how do you differentiate? And what kind of response would you
get using a "remote outfit" as opposed to a "local" one?

There is one difference that the previous poster failed to mention. If

the gentleman signs with some local alarm dealer he's stuck

using whatever central station they choose.

That's a problem?

The contract even allows them to change stations without the customer's consent if they
find one that will do it for a dollar less.

There's a huge cost involved in changing stations. Often it requires
reprogramming the account codes. Most responsible dealers won't change for
"a dollar less". Money isn't the only motivation, although you certainly
make it appear so. That's a tad "disengenuous", don't you think?

If he goes the DIY route he can decide which station to use. If he doesn't like them,
he can change at will.

That's not true either. Most UL Listed centrals won't allow a DIY to
program his own alarm panel. It's got something to do with liability.

 

[Robert L Bass]

No one, DIYer or paid installer *repairs*

No, but finding out the source of the trouble
often takes someone with experience and
the right tools.

Time for a reality check, Olson. As for tools, most of the time all you need is a simple meter, a manual and a screwdriver. I've
walked scores of people through servicing their opwn alarms. It isn't rocket science. Any primate can install or service an alarm
system.

Sure. He'll spend "hours" of his time
findng the problem where it might
take a trained technician 15 minutes...

Many times end users have posted right here in this newsgroup how they've waited weeks for their alarm company to service the alarm
system. Those who were able to get service usually still have to wait anywhere from a day to more than a week. Then there's the
cost. Some alarm dealers charge a reasonable fee for their techs' time. Others gouge the customer at every opportunity.

By opting to DIY the client can save most of the cost. With a little coaching, some common sense and a few simple tools he can also
get the job done before the alarm company technician ever arrives.

He'll then have to wait three weeks
for some on line store to arrange to
drop ship the part he thinks is faulty
to his house...

What cloud are you living on? Most alarm parts are shipped from stock. We can usually get even a UPS ground shipment to the client
in one to three days. If they order before 2m on a weekday and they want is shipped overnight they can have the component the
next morning. This isn't unusual either. Most online dealers can easily run circles around the average local, independent dealer.
Part of the reason for that is companies like mine have far greater purchasing power than most locals.

And if that part happens to require
warranty service...

If it requires warranty service the client will have to wait the exact same time no matter who does the job. Some manufacturers are
quick to turn things around. Others are not. However, there's no difference in their responsiveness between one dealer and the
next.

Also, some distributors maintain a stock of refurbished parts for warranty work. When a panel comes in it is sent to the
manufacturer for repair and a replacement is shipped immediately. When the other unit comes back it goes on the shelf for the next
warranty call. The advantage here is that the replacement part can often be shipped immediately as an advance replacement. Many
distributors do that for anything that is past the 30-day over-the-counter replacement policy.

If the job is DIY the part ships directly to the customer the same day the problem is discovered. If the alarm company is in the
middle of this the client has to wait for a tech to come out, diagnose the trouble and remove the component. Then he has to wait
for the alarm company to order the replacement part. Then he waits for them to get it from the distributor. Then he waits for the
alarm company to send a technician back to reinstall the replacement part. Meanwhile the DIYer has had his system working for
anywhere from several days to several weeks while the dealer's customer is still waiting.

Find a local company that's familiar
with your equipment to provide service.

Roll the dice and hope the tech they send actually is familiar with the system.

You may spend a few more dollars...

Or a few hundred more dollars.

(if it's not monitored), but at least
you'll know the job's in capable hands.

Most of the time it probably will be but the customer has no way to be certain beforehand. Once that tech is loose in the house it
may be too late.

There's a huge difference if the station isn't
acceptable to the local AHJ...

That's absurd. Maybe one AHJ in 10,000 even gives a rat's olson which monitoring company is involved. In 30 years in the trade I
have yet to see one single AHJ ask which central station was monitoring a system. They are concerned with how the system is wired
and (if there's fire alarm involved) whether the installation meets minima. They never care who is doing the monitoring and they
especially don't care whether it's UL station five states away or another UL station in the same town.

Note to new visitors: At this point several of the "professional" installers will make up stories of AHJ's demanding that only a
local, independent dealer do the monitoring.

Call the local police department,
fire and ambulance services and
find out what station is or is not
acceptable...

Yeah, right. Most AHJ's, police and fire departments refuse to recommend anyone at all. Doing so would be unethical (not that that
would bother some folks here).

If you are going to use an 800 service,
make sure they know about local
ordinances that could affect your
service...

That's yet another red herring. Where there's an ordinance it is incumbent upon the alarm user to register his alarm. There is
also a growing trend toward issuing fines for an inordinate number of false alarms. Alarm dealers know about that because the
systems they install false 98% of the time, causing police, fire departments and AHJ's in many cities to ask their councils to write
ordinances allowing them to ignore the systems.

On a side note, one dealer who recently posted a silly advertisement in this newsgroup claimed to represent the one comany that
police respect the most. The funny thing is that company has the worst false alarm track record of any in the trade. It's an
outfit I nicknamed "Sonitrash."

It often is. Particularly in the fire prevention industry.

Naah. It doesn't make any difference at all. Besides, alarm dealers and alarm systems do nothing to prevent fires. When they work
properly (the systems; not the dealers) they detect fires. But they don't prevent anything.

On the contrary, there are huge differences
between a central that employs licensed
and certified staff as opposed to some
"mom and pop" that's run out of a garage
somewhere.

I know of a number of small central stations but I've never seen one in a garage. I even ran a small, independent alarm company for
many years. We bought a house from a doctor whose office was part of the same building as the living quarters. I built a
non-listed central station in the office, hired staff to man it and was able to givwe good service to my clients for many years.
Since it was a wood frame building there was no way we would ever have been UL but our response times were excellent and we had a
good reputation in our town and the surrounding area.

I've sen a few other small, independents that do a good job. One guy in a nearby town was a friendly competitor who liked some of
the same hardware we used. His operation wasn't as fast as ours but they did a good job. When I sold my business they got the 3rd
party monitoring contract.

OTOH, I know of several other local dealers (Sonitrash was the worst) who do a miserable job -- miss many signals, fail to cancel
after a client gives them a valid password, delay reporting an hour or more, etc.

Unfortunately, the mix among large, 3rd party monitoring companies isn't very different. Some do an excellent, professional job.
Others are totally incompetent.

True. But how do you differentiate?

Easy. DIY the installation. Select a monitoring service that doesn't require a long-term contract. Try them out for a while. If
they do a good job stay with them. If not, cancel and go elsewhere. Unfortunately, if the client opts for professional
installation that option is not open to him. He will have to accept whatecer monitoring center the dealer selects. Even if the
initial provider is good, if the dealer later decides to switch to an outfit that charges $1 less the customer has no choice but to
use them, regardless what kind of service they provide.

And what kind of response would you
get using a "remote outfit" as opposed
to a "local" one?

If you mean response to an alarm, on average it will be the same.

That's a problem?

It is if the dealer chooses a poor quality provider to save himself a dollar or two per account per month.

There's a huge cost involved in changing
stations...

If the dealer is ill prepared, that is true.

Often it requires reprogramming the account
codes. Most responsible dealers won't change
for "a dollar less"...

Smart independent dealers have their own 800 numbers for all their accounts. Changing providers requires a two step process. First
the dealer sends a copy of the account database to the new station. Virtually every major c-s automation software packages provides
an account conversion process to merge data from every other major c-s system. Next the dealer calls the telco and has them assign
the 800 numbers to circuits at the new station.

When we sold our company we prepared in advance. On the appointed day the telco reassigned the numbers and the cutover was
accomplished in a few minutes. Had I decided to use an out-of-state provider the procedure would have been identical since I owned
the phone numbers.

Money isn't the only motivation, although
you certainly make it appear so...

Oh yeah, right. You're all in this business for the satisfaction of providing protection to helpless babies and... [excuse me while
I place an online order for a shovel].

That's a tad "disengenuous", don't you think?

Funny how virtually every alarm monitoring contract in use today has a clause allowing the dealer to change providers without the
custimers' consent.

That's not true either. Most UL Listed centrals
won't allow a DIY to program his own alarm
panel. It's got something to do with liability...

Bullshit! Most central stations don't accept DIY because they don't want dealers to think they're competing with them. Those who
do accept DIY accounts almost never insist on locking the customer out of programming his own panel. There's a good reason for
that. Most DIYers would tell them to jump in the Arthur Kill (next to the rotting hull of the SS Jiminex).

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Doug]

Never happened right?

http://www.csaaul.org/CAALivermoreSettlement.rtf


Doug

 

[Jim]

Time for a reality check, Olson. As for tools, most of the time all you need is a simple meter, a manual and a screwdriver. I've
walked scores of people through servicing their opwn alarms. It isn't rocket science. Any primate can install or service an alarm
system.

<snip the usual tripe and charlatan snake oil charm>

Well ............. As usual it gets down to credibility and what
motivates your presence in this Newsgroup.


Lets take a little stroll down memory lane so that the end user can see
what you've done to people here, through the years. That the only
reason for your presence in this Newsgroup is to discredit installation
companys so that you can entice end users to use your inadequate
services and follow your inadaquate advice. How you've lied about
installation companys and misled end users into thinking that you
actually have up to date knowledge of equipment and the industry. How
your BBB record of dissatisfied customers is a prime example of why no
one should do business with you or believe anything that you say. .


Robert Bass is a long time trouble maker here in ASA. He's insulted
just about anyone and everyone who takes any position that even
slightly opposes his. He takes swipes at people and then when they
respond and get angry at his arrogance and snotty attitude, he will
then stand aloof and say they are the cause. Anyone who is a regular
participant in this Newsgroup, knows this to be true. However, Bass
depends upon the fact that newcomers, such as you, don't have the time
or inclination to investigate who is giving you advice, so it's
somewhat easy to dupe newbies into believing what he says. He's slick
as a snake.

Many years ago, he was ousted from an aviation group for doing the very
same thing that he does here. So my description of his attitude and
methods now ...... is documented in posts made all those years ago by a
number of other people, in almost the very same words. In other words,
he does it on purpose. He has called peoples employers to try to get
them in trouble and has called various other entities to get people in
trouble, claiming they were not properly installing alarms. He has been
caught canceling other people posts and posting to competitors web
sites under the name of members of this group, that he doesn't get
along with. A nasty, sneaky SOB, to say the least. He's even reported
someone to one of the aviation boards for flying while intoxicated, yet
had no proof. In other words, because he had a disagreement in the
Newsgroup, he tried to get even by getting the other person barred from
flying.

Bass's sole and only purpose here is to promote and sell equipment from
his web site. He ridicules anyone who thinks that he shouldn't be doing
that from a Newgroup that was set up for alarm installers and
constantly belittles alarm installers. The original FAQ of the group
said that there should be no advertising, but he ignores that. The
original founder of the group Steve Rykman left the group in total
frustration many years ago, because of the futility of trying to make
the group a peaceful place without it being moderated. The turmoil was
over Bass insisting on advertising his web site to end users and his
arrogant attitude towards installers who do this for a living. Bass
continuously mocks installers so as to make it appear that all end
users can install systems easily. The reality is, some can and some
can't. But listening to Bass, all installers are out to cheat end users
when in reality he's setting them up to do just that .... himself.

Just thought I'd fill you in a little. I've been here for about 8 years
and Bass is just one of those people that, it it were real life, you'd
leave any conversation group he was involved with, because you'd likely
wind up being put away for assault. He's an instigator and a purveyor
of turmoil wherever he goes.

Oh and by the way, he's also a convicted felon. He doesn't have a
license to install systems because of that. He's been investigated by
the agency in Florida that governs the alarm industry. He skirts around
the State laws providing services that should be licensed. But
apparently was slick enough to get away with continuing doing business
however I suspect that utimately he'll be investigated again ..... he's
a slimey, devious fraud.

If you'd like references to do some searches on past events, just let
me know. He's a nasty SOB and a Google search will prove it. You'll
also notice that he cannot and will not object to anything that I've
said, because he knows that it's all provable by simply pulling up past
posts from this Newsgroup or that others who've been here long enough
will corroborate it.

 

[Robert L Bass]

Never happened right?

That is correct. I wrote the following:

The city of Livermore did not require the central station be a local, independent dealer. They made themselves the sole provider,
effectively eliminating recurring revenue for all private monitoring companies. That is what infuriated all those dealers (who were
of course only interested in protecting the good citizens of Livermore).

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Doug]

You also wrote

They never care who is doing the monitoring and they especially don't care
whether it's UL station five states away or another UL station in the same
town.

You were wrong on both counts, why lie about it, you can't do anything about
your stupidity, but at least you could try and be an honest idiot.

http://www.csaaul.org/CAALivermoreSettlement.rtf


Doug


--

 

[FIRETEK]

In line.

Time for a reality check, Olson.

Wrong "Frank".

As for tools, most of the time all you need is a simple meter, a manual

and a screwdriver.

Sure. And the ability to use them properly.

I've
walked scores of people through servicing their opwn alarms.

The one's that post here looking for you when you don't answer the phone?

It isn't rocket science. Any primate can install or service an alarm
system.

Sure. In about "two hours" worth of "personal telephone education", right?

Many times end users have posted right here in this newsgroup how they've

waited weeks > for their alarm company to service the alarm

And ain't it amazing how "quick" you are on the "draw" to "volunteer" your
"service". The net abounds with "sock puppets". Heck, I'm one myself (or
so you say).

system. Those who were able to get service usually still have to wait anywhere
from a day to more than a week. Then there's the cost. Some alarm dealers
charge a reasonable fee for their techs' time. Others gouge the customer at every
opportunity.

So because "others gouge the customer at every opportunity", all alarm
dealers are bad. Interesting "logic". Did you use the same "logic" when
you told the judge it was only a "fake" gun? "Look, your honour. Some guns
are real. Others are fake and should just be ignored."

By opting to DIY the client can save most of the cost. With a little coaching,
some common sense and a few simple tools he can also
get the job done before the alarm company technician ever arrives.

I'd like to see a DIY try and troubleshoot a fire alarm system. Something
like an Edwards 8500 with full evac, about 102 zones and 21 dual zone
amplifiers. Oh... let's throw in a couple of ESAC's as well as elevator
homing, and pressurization turbines for the stairwells.

What cloud are you living on? Most alarm parts are shipped from stock.

I have no doubt that they are. But surely you don't "stock" anything.

We can usually get even a UPS ground shipment to the client
in one to three days.

And a service technician can be dispatched in 1 to 3 hours (and usually is).

If they order before 2m on a weekday and they
want is shipped overnight they can have the component the
next morning.

About 24 hours after the tech has been there and fixed the problem.

This isn't unusual either. Most online dealers can easily run
circles around the average local, independent dealer.

That would be difficult for _you_ to prove. How many of your customers have
tried contacting you and wound up filing complaints here and at the BBB?

Part of the reason for that is
companies like mine have far greater purchasing power than most locals.

Not knowing your "operation" I won't comment on your "purchasing power". I
do see you "power huffing and puffing" a lot though.

If it requires warranty service the client will have to wait the exact

same time no matter who does the job.

Wrong. Most good alarm dealers settle on a single product line. This makes
servicing their systems very much easier. It also makes stocking
replacement parts _in the service vehicle_ a "snap". If it's a "board
problem", they simply swap it out and download the sucker. Heck, even the
user codes are fully restored.

Some manufacturers are
quick to turn things around. Others are not. However, there's no

difference in their responsiveness between one dealer and the

next.

Frank said your eyes are "brown".

Also, some distributors maintain a stock of refurbished parts for warranty

work. When a panel comes in it is sent to the

manufacturer for repair and a replacement is shipped immediately. When

the other unit comes back it goes on the shelf for the next

warranty call. The advantage here is that the replacement part can often

be shipped immediately as an advance replacement. Many

distributors do that for anything that is past the 30-day over-the-counter

replacement policy.

So let me get this straight. I order a part from AssHome or AssBurglar and
it's defective. Your warranty page states that the part must be returned
(at my cost) to the "depot" that shipped it (not to you) _after_ I contact
you to get an "RMA" number (the latter process might take days or weeks
according to what I've seen posted about your "communication problems"). It
must then be examined, and at the depot's discretion a replacement part is
returned. If that "part" happens to be the common control board for say...
a FireLite fire alarm panel, then I would have to pay for a 24 hour security
fire watch for how many days before I got a replacement board? Let's say it
was my burg panel's common control. I pay to have the board sent back
"overnight". It takes about a day for some schmuck in the warehouse to find
the thing and bring it up to someone that will say: "Yep, it's defective,
send him a new one". Then it'll take another day (or 2) to get back to me.
That's 3 or 4 days that I won't have an alarm system (not including the day
or 2 it took to squeeze the RMA number out of you). I also understand that
some depots won't accept parts returned from an end-user or that were
installed by an end-user. So much for DIY.

If the job is DIY the part ships directly to the customer the same day the

problem is discovered.

Not according to your "warranty" page.

If the alarm company is in the
middle of this the client has to wait for a tech to come out, diagnose the

trouble and remove the component. Then he has to wait

for the alarm company to order the replacement part. Then he waits for

them to get it from the distributor. Then he waits for the

alarm company to send a technician back to reinstall the replacement part.

Meanwhile the DIYer has had his system working for

anywhere from several days to several weeks while the dealer's customer is

still waiting.

I figure Frank's right. Your eyes are "brown". And it's leaking out your
ears too. Most alarm dealers will carry spare boards/parts in their trucks.
Replacement is immediate. So is the programming.

Roll the dice and hope the tech they send actually is familiar with the

system.

Use the company that installed it and they not only will be familiar with
the system, they'll carry all the spare parts they need to fix it.

Or a few hundred more dollars.

Plus shipping. To and from.

That's absurd. Maybe one AHJ in 10,000 even gives a rat's olson which

monitoring company is involved.

It would behoove the customer to check first don't you think? You're always
so good with dispensing advice. Why are you ignoring this simple basic
"first step"?

In 30 years in the trade I
have yet to see one single AHJ ask which central station was monitoring a

system.

How many jurisdictions have you worked in?

They are concerned with how the system is wired
and (if there's fire alarm involved) whether the installation meets

minima. They never care who is doing the monitoring and they

especially don't care whether it's UL station five states away or another

UL station in the same town.

When it comes to my "neck of the woods" (fire alarms), they're also
concerned about whether it was "wired", "installed", and "serviced" by a
qualified contractor.

Yeah, right. Most AHJ's, police and fire departments refuse to recommend

anyone at all. Doing so would be unethical (not that that

would bother some folks here).

I never said they'd "recommend" any particular dealer. I simply stated that
some may not accept out of state/province monitoring.

That's yet another red herring.

And you do a lot of "trolling" and your last name is Bass.

Where there's an ordinance it is incumbent upon the alarm user to

register his alarm.

In Vancouver the "ordinance" goes a bit further. It requires the name and
license number of the installing/servicing technician. So much for "DIY".

There is
also a growing trend toward issuing fines for an inordinate number of

false alarms.


In Vancouver, a false alarm requires the attendance of a licensed technician
to verify all components in the alarm system are functional and to
investigate any possible causes for the false alarm. After the third false
alarm, the system is suspended from priority response until a qualified
alarm tech signs off on the installation. This usually means installing
upgraded equipment and might entail additional wiring to "cross-zone". A
client of mine had to go through this exercise a few weeks ago. They're a
local property management firm with offices in a building we service the
fire alarm on.

Alarm dealers know about that because the
systems they install false 98% of the time, causing police, fire

departments and AHJ's in many cities to ask their councils to write

ordinances allowing them to ignore the systems.

I just love watching you in action. You should really sell tickets. Where
the hell do you get these statistics/information from? Oh wait, I forget.
You make them up.

On a side note, one dealer who recently posted a silly advertisement in

this newsgroup claimed to represent the one comany that

police respect the most. The funny thing is that company has the worst

false alarm track record of any in the trade. It's an

outfit I nicknamed "Sonitrash."

And I've nicknamed your outfit "AssBurglar". So what?

Naah. It doesn't make any difference at all. Besides, alarm dealers and

alarm systems do nothing to prevent fires. When they work

properly (the systems; not the dealers) they detect fires. But they don't

prevent anything.

Like I said earlier. The OP should check with the AHJ. It's also a good
idea to check with your insurance company. They might require a certificate
for you to qualify for the alarm discount.

I know of a number of small central stations but I've never seen one in a

garage. I even ran a small, independent alarm company for

many years. We bought a house from a doctor whose office was part of the

same building as the living quarters. I built a

non-listed central station in the office, hired staff to man it and was

able to givwe good service to my clients for many years.

Since it was a wood frame building there was no way we would ever have

been UL but our response times were excellent and we had a

good reputation in our town and the surrounding area.

Not having knowledge of your particular operation I can't comment one way or
another. I know you won't meet the qualifications for fire alarm monitoring
in the City of Vancouver with a non-listed central. As to your "good
reputation", I've read otherwise. Or was Tom just pulling our collective
legs?

 

[Robert L Bass]

As to intelligence, between the two of us our total IQ is equal to mine.

You are wrong on both counts. The town in question has written an ordinance not designed to keep monitoring local but to
effectively prevent any alarm dealer from providing monitoring. Perhaps they're fed up with all the false alarms and poor service.
Were you one of the previous providers? That might explain a lot.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Robert L Bass]

As for tools, most of the time all

Sure. And the ability to use them
properly.

Oh, yes. Those screwdrivers can be
mighty confusing. [snerk]

Sure. In about "two hours" worth of
"personal telephone education", right?

Is that how long it took for you to learn
how to use a screwdriver?

And ain't it amazing how "quick" you are on
the "draw" to "volunteer" your "service".

I should wait? Actually, I usually wait a few
hours while the idiots insult the end user
before offering help. It makes it all the easier
for the user to see who's who in ASA. You
guys are so helpful. Thanks.

So because "others gouge the customer
at every opportunity", all alarm dealers
are bad. Interesting "logic"...

You're lying again. I never said that and you
know it. In fact I've often said that most
dealers are probably honest. Unfortunately,
the customer won't know if he has selected
an honest dealer or you until it's too late.

I'd like to see a DIY try and troubleshoot
a fire alarm system...

Troubleshoot one? Heck, I have numerous
DIY clients installing and maintaining them.
The wiring, hookup and programming are
no more difficult than with burglar alarms.
One part that most DIYers need help with
is planning the power supply and battery
calc's. Fortunately, many manufacturers
provide spreadsheets or downloadable
software for the purpose. Some even provide
a downloadable configuration app to help
DIYers (and salesmen) determine the proper
hardware for the job.

Something like an Edwards 8500 with full
evac, about 102 zones and 21 dual zone
amplifiers...

Most fire alarms are smaller jobs than that.
However, I have sold a fair number of large,
addressable systems to DIYers. Once you
read the manual it's not all that complicated.

I also sell EVAX systems. Not that many
DIYers opt to install them but a few have.
Some of my DIY clients also install their
own access control systems.

Oh... let's throw in a couple of ESAC's
as well as elevator homing, and
pressurization turbines for the stairwells.

The typical alarm dealer would have no
idea how to do that either.

I have no doubt that they are. But
surely you don't "stock" anything.

You alrready know that I have everything
drop-shipped from the distributors and
manufacturers with whom I do business.
Knowing they stock it and they ship it,
your assertion that it will take weeks is
deliberate bullshit. IOW, you lie.

And a service technician can be
dispatched in 1 to 3 hours (and usually is).

Some firms dispatch right away. Some don't.
The problem, once again, is that the end
user has no way ogf knowing whether the
local dealer is fast, efficient and honest or you.

About 24 hours after the tech has
been there and fixed the problem.

Not if he needs a part that's not on the truck.

That would be difficult for _you_ to prove.
How many of your customers have tried
contacting you and wound up filing
complaints here...

Filing complaints in Usenet? Are you
really that stupid?

... and at the BBB?

Those are mostly fakes from Olson and
Cracker. I've had maybe five legitimate
complaints where I screwed something
up in all the years I've run an online store.
Then again, we process 30-40 sales a
day, 7 days a week. You try handling that
many jobs without an occasional jiminex
-up. Face it. Olson happens. :^)

Not knowing your "operation" I won't
comment on your "purchasing power".
I do see you "power huffing and
puffing" a lot though.

You've never seen me doing anything.
However, several others have posted
that they found out from their distributor
that we're a major account. It's no big
deal really. I offer better prices than
most so I sell more hardware. That
means I order more, which gets me
better costs. And so it goes.

same time no matter who does the

Wrong. Most good alarm dealers
settle on a single product line...

So do the bad ones.

This makes servicing their systems
very much easier...

Warranty replacement is still the same.
Either you swap it out with an advance
replacement (just as we do) if it's within
30 days or you send it into the factory.
If you do that you wait the same trime
as wwe do for a replacement. If you
were smart you'd keep a few refurbished
units around for warranty replacement.

It also makes stocking replacement
parts _in the service vehicle_ a "snap"...

Except for all those times when the
customer has something fail that doesn't
happen to be in the van. Don't kid
yourself, Bug. I've run an alarm company
for many years and I know what happens
better than you think.

If it's a "board problem", they simply
swap it out and download the sucker.
Heck, even the user codes are fully
restored...

Neat trick if it's a bad board. You have
every tech keep a complete copy of all
accounts? God help your vict... er,
customers when your next tech decides
to do a little "side work" like that turkey
from S Windsor did a few years ago.

Frank said your eyes are "brown".

That kind of remark is your substitute for
logic when you know I'm right.

replacement policy.

So let me get this straight. I order a part...

Nope. We would never accept your credit
card.

it's defective. Your warranty page states
that the part must be returned (at my cost)
to the "depot" that shipped it (not to you)...

If it's bad out of the box we send an advance
replacement and call tag it at no cost to the
customer. If it's been in service for more than
30 days the customer sends it to the return
address which I provide.

_after_ I contact you to get an "RMA"
number...

Actually, only one of our distributors requires
an RMA. The rest take the part back directly
as long as they know it's from us. I have the
RMA statement so that clients will let us know
what they're returning and why.

(the latter process might take days or
weeks according to what I've seen
posted about your "communication problems").

That's old hat, Bug. We now have three
people on the phones and our eMail works well.

It must then be examined, and at the
depot's discretion a replacement part is
returned...

If it's within 30 days the replacement arrives
at the client's address before we even see
the bad part.

If that "part" happens to be the common
control board for say... a FireLite fire alarm
panel, then I would have to pay for a 24
hour security fire watch for how many days
before I got a replacement board?

I don't do business with you so that's your
problem. Serves you right for screwing up the
installation in the first place. Next time
try doing the job right.

Let's say it was my burg panel's common
control. I pay to have the board sent back
"overnight". It takes about a day for some
schmuck in the warehouse to find the thing
and bring it up to someone that will say:
"Yep, it's defective, send him a new one".

By that time my DIY client's system would
already be up and running. Sorry to hear
about the delays your vict... customers suffer.

some depots won't accept parts returned
from an end-user or that were installed by
an end-user.

Dream on, Boug.

So much for DIY.

And yet my online business continues to grow.

Not according to your "warranty" page.

It's better to give more than you promise
than the other way around. Since some
manufacturers don't do advance replacement
I don't promise it.

I figure Frank's right. Your eyes are "brown".

I figure you can't debate intelligently.

Replacement is immediate. So is the
programming.

And yet we get calls every day from
distraught customers of local dealers
who have left them hanging for weeks
on end.

Use the company that installed it and
they not only will be familiar with the
system, they'll carry all the spare
parts they need to fix it.

And yet... [see above]

It would behoove the customer to
check first don't you think?

If they want it monitored by an out of
state firm they can ask the provider if
they are currently handling accounts
in their location. Most AHJ's if asked
which monitoring service they
"require," will answer about a burglar
alarm system: "We don't care if it's
monitored at all."

BTW, since all but a small portion of
DIYers don't even want monitoring,
the whole question is moot.

You're always so good with dispensing
advice.

Thanks. Recognition at last. :^)

Why are you ignoring this simple basic "first step"?

If it were relevent I'd suggest it.

How many jurisdictions have you worked in?

You already know I worked throughout
Connecticut or 24 years. I dealt with
AHJ's in scores of cities and towns.
None even asked where the CS was.

When it comes to my "neck of the woods"
(fire alarms), they're also concerned about
whether it was "wired", "installed", and
"serviced" by a qualified contractor...

Bullshit! They care if it's done right.
Sadly, too many paid "professional"
installers don't do it right. With very
few exceptions, if the owner of a
property wants to DIY his fire alarm
the law permits him to do so. The
exceptions are specifically written
into the law. For example, if I want
to wire up my own shop which I intend
to keep and use for my own business
there's no problem. However, if I plan
to sell the building without occupying
it myself, the work is considered
"contracting" and requires a license.

There's an interesting special case on
this subject, BTW. In many states
someone building a single family home
on spec can do his own work without
a license. Since that's not universal I
advise clients to check first or let an
electrician pull the cables, permits, etc.

If it's a fire alarm I recommend an
electrician over most independent
alarm dealers because too many
dealers don't do neat enough work
to pass inspection.

I never said they'd "recommend" any particular
dealer. I simply stated that some may not
accept out of state/province monitoring.

Indeed you did. That "some" so far amounts
to one town in CA and they're being sued by
a bunch of alarm associations who hate
losing the recurring revenue. It will be
interesting to see how that turns out.

And you do a lot of "trolling" and
your last name is Bass.

I got over being bothered by fifth grade
insults about the time most children
grew out of making such dumb cracks.
Clearly you've not yet outgrown it.

In Vancouver the "ordinance" goes a
bit further. It requires the name and
license number of the installing/servicing
technician. So much for "DIY".

I don't care about Canada. However, many similar ordinances exist in US cities and towns. There the DIYer simply fills in his own
name. No license is required.

In Vancouver, a false alarm requires the
attendance of a licensed technician
to verify all components in the alarm
system are functional and to investigate
any possible causes for the false alarm...

Again, I don't care about Canada. In the USA anywhere that the installer is required to do something, the DIYer does it.

After the third false alarm, the system
is suspended from priority response
until a qualified alarm tech signs off on
the installation.

We have similar rules in a few places in the USA too. If the job is DIY the homeowner is the accepted substitute.

This usually means installing upgraded
equipment and might entail additional
wiring to "cross-zone"...

That's your fault. If you'd done the job right in the first place you wouldn't have these problems.

A client of mine had to go through this
exercise a few weeks ago...

He should really consider getting another alarm company. If he was in the US I'd be happy to refer him to someone competent.

They're a local property management firm
with offices in a building we service the
fire alarm on.

Poor fellows. I feel for them.

I just love watching you in action...

Careful. Jiminex will get jealous.

You should really sell tickets. Where
the hell do you get these statistics /
information from?

The NBFAA. Perhaps you've heard of them.

Oh wait, I forget. You make them up.

You're confusing me with Olson.

Not having knowledge of your particular
operation I can't comment one way or
another...

Oh, don't let a little thing like knowing
nothing stop you. It never did before.

I know you won't meet the qualifications
for fire alarm monitoring in the City of
Vancouver with a non-listed central...

Since I sold the business I don't monitor
anything any more. Besides, I never was
interested in Canada. Unlike Olson, I
registered for the draft and showed up
when called.

As to your "good reputation", I've read
otherwise...

You've read comments from people who
don't know me.

Or was Tom just pulling our collective
legs?

He was pulling your leg. In CT I had a
reputation for winning by beating the
competition on price, service and quality.
A few idiot competitors used to bad-
mouth but they could never beat me.
It's the same here. I beat the competition
on price and service. You and your
moron pals bad-mouth and make stupid
schoolyard remarks but my business just
keeps growing.

Do you think you'll make this newsgroup
better by contributing more vitriol? You're
sure as Waco never going to get me to
stop posting. Perhaps, like Jiminex, you
don't give an olson what the NG becomes.
That's OK with me. I have pretty thick
skin and can easily match wits with you.
It isn't exactly rocket science. :^)

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[[email protected]]

Hi

Looking for better pricing than the 25-30 they want locally for alarm
monitoring. Found many doing a Google search but can't determine who is
good/bad.

I have been using NextAlarm.com for two years and have been VERY
pleased. I'm going to renew for another year even though safemart.com
is now a little cheaper. NextAlarm.com increased their monthly fee to
$11.95 recently.

 

[FIRETEK]

Once again into the breach...

Sure. And the ability to use them
properly.

Oh, yes. Those screwdrivers can be
mighty confusing. [snerk]

The post I was replying to mentioned "meter". I guess you missed that.

Is that how long it took for you to learn
how to use a screwdriver?

Yeah, I admit those Phillips head screws you guys down south love so much
are a challenge.

I should wait? Actually, I usually wait a few
hours while the idiots insult the end user
before offering help. It makes it all the easier
for the user to see who's who in ASA. You
guys are so helpful. Thanks.

I don't see any idiots here, let alone ones that insult the OP.

You're lying again.

I have you for a role model.

I never said that

That's the way I read it though. I guess both of us have a problem reading.
By the way: why snip the part about the fake gun? That was genuinely
funny. Frank actually called me to say so.

Troubleshoot one? Heck, I have numerous
DIY clients installing and maintaining them.
The wiring, hookup and programming are
no more difficult than with burglar alarms.
One part that most DIYers need help with
is planning the power supply and battery
calc's. Fortunately, many manufacturers
provide spreadsheets or downloadable
software for the purpose. Some even provide
a downloadable configuration app to help
DIYers (and salesmen) determine the proper
hardware for the job.

Do you frequently break up people's posts to make some small points? If you
take a look at what I actually wrote, you'll notice I wasn't refering to
just any fire alarm system, but an Edwards 8500. But do go on. Your
stories of DIY are positively fascinating. I could read them all day long.

Most fire alarms are smaller jobs than that.
However, I have sold a fair number of large,
addressable systems to DIYers. Once you
read the manual it's not all that complicated.

Heh... right... You've obviously never _seen_ and 8500 let alone worked on
one.

I also sell EVAX systems.

Is that what they call them in the US? Up here they're "EVAC's". That's
short for "Evacuation".

Not that many
DIYers opt to install them but a few have.

Sure they have.

Some of my DIY clients also install their
own access control systems.

Of course they do.

The typical alarm dealer would have no
idea how to do that either.

Bingo! It's taken five separations (and an equal number of your rambling
dissertations on DIY expertise) to finally get you to admit the DIY would be
in way over his head in this instance.

You alrready know that I have everything
drop-shipped from the distributors and
manufacturers with whom I do business.
Knowing they stock it and they ship it,
your assertion that it will take weeks is
deliberate bullshit. IOW, you lie.

Having had to wait "weeks" for certain fire alarm parts (Edwards 6500 for
instance), as well as some replacement chips for a Keyscan system I figured
I wasn't far off the mark. A liar calling someone else a liar isn't worth
the pixels it's printed on, by the way.

Some firms dispatch right away. Some don't.

Yeah... It takes 3 hours at the most.

The problem, once again, is that the end
user has no way ogf knowing whether the
local dealer is fast, efficient and honest or you.

Or the online vendor is "fast, efficient, and honest or you".

Not if he needs a part that's not on the truck.

That just needs a quick trip to the local supplier. Add an extra two hours.

Filing complaints in Usenet? Are you
really that stupid?

Never-the-less, I've seen them post complaints here.

Those are mostly fakes from Olson and
Cracker.

And that's an outright lie, Bass. You damn well know the procedures
involved in filing a complaint with the BBB and what they require from both
the complainant and you. In fact, you've had dozens of complaints to deal
with over the years. The count keeps changing upward even though some of
the older ones have aged off the system.

I've had maybe five legitimate
complaints where I screwed something
up in all the years I've run an online store.

That's not what the report says, and you know it.

Then again, we process 30-40 sales a
day, 7 days a week. You try handling that
many jobs without an occasional jiminex
-up. Face it. Olson happens. :^)

Yeah... and I suppose online stores with the BBB online seal that do four
times the business you do field the same number of complaints... Sure...

You've never seen me doing anything.

I've seen you lie. Right here in this thread. Shame on you!

However, several others have posted
that they found out from their distributor
that we're a major account.

Really? When was that?

It's no big
deal really. I offer better prices than
most so I sell more hardware. That
means I order more, which gets me
better costs. And so it goes.

Would you like cheese on your fish?

So do the bad ones.

I don't see many "bad" ones. Their phone numbers don't work, for one thing.

Warranty replacement is still the same.
Either you swap it out with an advance
replacement (just as we do) if it's within
30 days or you send it into the factory.

So how much does this "advance replacement" cost? In terms of actual
charges to your customer (shipping, etc.).

If you do that you wait the same trime
as wwe do for a replacement. If you
were smart you'd keep a few refurbished
units around for warranty replacement.

I can't sell "refurbished" parts on a fire alarm system. That would be
illegal. ULC doesn't allow board level repairs except for the actual
manufacturer.

Except for all those times when the
customer has something fail that doesn't
happen to be in the van.

Oh, come off it. On a burg system? Spare boards are cheap.

Don't kid
yourself, Bug. I've run an alarm company
for many years and I know what happens
better than you think.

Yeah, sure. I guess I must be really starting to "bug" you, eh?

Neat trick if it's a bad board. You have
every tech keep a complete copy of all
accounts?

Nope. They're downloaded from the office.

God help your vict... er,
customers when your next tech decides
to do a little "side work" like that turkey
from S Windsor did a few years ago.

They can't. They have to phone the office for the password for each panel.
There isn't a "common one" like most alarm companies use. They also turn in
their laptops at the end of the day (except for the guy "on call").

That kind of remark is your substitute for
logic when you know I'm right.

You've made quite a few "substitutes for logical remarks" here too, haven't
you? You've also been caught in a blatant LIE.

Nope. We would never accept your credit
card.

Heh... right... You're such an "eager beaver" you'ld jump your pool to
take an order (from anyone). If it happened to be from someone in this
group, you'd go "ga-ga" with glee.

If it's bad out of the box we send an advance
replacement and call tag it at no cost to the
customer.

You've just answered my earlier question.

If it's been in service for more than
30 days the customer sends it to the return
address which I provide.

Uh-huh... and?? Does he get an "advance replacement" too? Or is this
closer to the scenario I outlined earlier?

Actually, only one of our distributors requires
an RMA. The rest take the part back directly
as long as they know it's from us. I have the
RMA statement so that clients will let us know
what they're returning and why.

I see. So you "lie" in your directions too... typical.

That's old hat, Bug. We now have three
people on the phones and our eMail works well.

Bully for you.

If it's within 30 days the replacement arrives
at the client's address before we even see
the bad part.

And after 30 days?? What?? The part disappears into the "ether" of some
drop shippers warehouse where it will be dealt with "sometime". Meanwhile,
the customer has a system that's out of service.

I don't do business with you so that's your
problem. Serves you right for screwing up the
installation in the first place. Next time
try doing the job right.

Frank warned me about you. Are you going to answer the question or just let
this example of your "logic" stand for all eternity?

By that time my DIY client's system would
already be up and running. Sorry to hear
about the delays your vict... customers suffer.

Snip, cut, and mix. It doesn't get any more "logical" than this.

Dream on, Boug.

Is that a cross between "Doug" and "Bug"? Or have I made a "hit" pretty
darn close to the mark?

And yet my online business continues to grow.

So does your BBB report. Is that based on some sort of mathematical
formula? One to one? Two to one??

It's better to give more than you promise
than the other way around. Since some
manufacturers don't do advance replacement
I don't promise it.

You don't even mention it.

I figure you can't debate intelligently.

I've gotta come down to your level to do that. It hurts my brain.

And yet we get calls every day from
distraught customers of local dealers
who have left them hanging for weeks
on end.

More fairly tales. You're "good", Bass.

Use the company that installed it and
they not only will be familiar with the
system, they'll carry all the spare
parts they need to fix it.

And yet... [see above]

Check. The fuzzy dice in our vans don't roll. They jiggle.

If they want it monitored by an out of
state firm they can ask the provider if
they are currently handling accounts
in their location. Most AHJ's if asked
which monitoring service they
"require," will answer about a burglar
alarm system: "We don't care if it's
monitored at all."

Until they try dispatching the local constabulary.

BTW, since all but a small portion of
DIYers don't even want monitoring,
the whole question is moot.

So in the six years your business has been operating the total number of
monitored accounts you sold was... "6"?

Thanks. Recognition at last. :^)

In spades.

If it were relevent I'd suggest it.

Yes, I imagine you would.

You already know I worked throughout
Connecticut or 24 years. I dealt with
AHJ's in scores of cities and towns.
None even asked where the CS was.

Check "scores". You write a lot of your own music don't you? Does it have
a samba beat, or is it more "Bass-anova"?

They care if it's done right.

That's a forgone conclusion if the qualified contractor wants to retain his
licensing (and get paid).

Sadly, too many paid "professional"
installers don't do it right.

Not _one_ in my neck of the woods.

With very
few exceptions, if the owner of a
property wants to DIY his fire alarm
the law permits him to do so.

Har-dee-har!... That's about all you know, isn't it? You can't "DIY" a
fire alarm system in BC, Bass. I'll bet you can't do so in a lot of
jurisdictions. But, I do like your music.

The
exceptions are specifically written
into the law.

Check. "The exceptions" include "fire alarms".

For example, if I want
to wire up my own shop which I intend
to keep and use for my own business
there's no problem.

There is if it requires third party commissioning. In Canada, we call that
"Verification".

However, if I plan
to sell the building without occupying
it myself, the work is considered
"contracting" and requires a license.

And your point is??

There's an interesting special case on
this subject, BTW. In many states
someone building a single family home
on spec can do his own work without
a license. Since that's not universal I
advise clients to check first or let an
electrician pull the cables, permits, etc.

You dispense a lot of "advice", don't you?? Do you also design systems?

If it's a fire alarm I recommend an
electrician over most independent
alarm dealers because too many
dealers don't do neat enough work
to pass inspection.

And your point is??

Indeed you did.

Which (if we were to use your definition of the term) means you lied...
again.

That "some" so far amounts
to one town in CA and they're being sued by
a bunch of alarm associations who hate
losing the recurring revenue. It will be
interesting to see how that turns out.

No, actually. It means that the the alarm association and the companies
_won_, Bass. "With Prejudice".

I got over being bothered by fifth grade
insults about the time most children
grew out of making such dumb cracks.
Clearly you've not yet outgrown it.

Like I said earlier... I've had to respond at your level which you're
saying is now "fifth grade"? My brain really hurts.

 

[IOW, you lie.]

Those are mostly fakes from Olson and
Cracker. I've had maybe five legitimate
complaints where I screwed something
up in all the years I've run an online store.

You're a lying sack of fat shit, bAss. The BBB will only accept
complaints from *customers* of the business in question. They require
/proof/ that there is a legitimate claim AND proof the complainant has
actually done business with the complaintee.

I can say with 100% accuracy that either of the above have ever
purchased nor contracted to purchase any of your wares.

 

[Frank Olson]

I have been using NextAlarm.com for two years and have been VERY
pleased. I'm going to renew for another year even though safemart.com
is now a little cheaper. NextAlarm.com increased their monthly fee to
$11.95 recently.

Good for you. On what do you base your glowing testimonial on? Price?
Service? Technology? Which one of their UL Listed stations happens
to monitor you? Are the agents SIA certified? Licensed? Bonded? Will
they provide service to the OP's location? "NextAlarm" doesn't monitor
clients directly. They "resell" the service provided by numerous
independent Centrals. I'd be interested to know if you've actually had
any personal contact/experience with them and what that was like.
"Price" shouldn't be the only factor in determining who protects your
family.

 

[[email protected]]

Good for you. On what do you base your glowing testimonial on? Price?
Service? Technology? Which one of their UL Listed stations happens
to monitor you? Are the agents SIA certified? Licensed? Bonded? Will
they provide service to the OP's location? "NextAlarm" doesn't monitor
clients directly. They "resell" the service provided by numerous
independent Centrals. I'd be interested to know if you've actually had
any personal contact/experience with them and what that was like.
"Price" shouldn't be the only factor in determining who protects your
family.

Service and response time. I'm aware that they resell and that doesn't
bother me as long as they're doing their job, which for two years they
have been. I intentionally create falses about once a week to make
sure they're keeping on the ball. Calls come within 2 minutes 90% of
the time, within 5 minutes 100% of the time.

 

[Robert L Bass]

Once again into the breach...

That can be adjusted with forceps.

The post I was replying to mentioned
"meter". I guess you missed that.

Oh, yeah. Those meters are real confusing. :^) If you think so, perhaps you need a different line of work.

Yeah, I admit those Phillips head screws
you guys down south love so much
are a challenge.

That's what you get for missing the class in Olsonomics 101. Next time register early for a seat up front. He'll teach you how to
twist.

I don't see any idiots here, let alone
ones that insult the OP.

You see people in Usenet?

I have you for a role model.

More like a puppet master.

That's the way I read it though...

Only because you chose to read it wrong.

I guess both of us have a problem reading.

Nah. Both of us can read. You have a problem with honesty.

Frank actually called me to say so.

You call yourself? Cracker has medication for that.

Do you frequently...
Sometimes.

break up people's posts...

Once in a while.

to make some small points?

That, and large points as well.

If you take a look at what I
actually wrote...

I did.

you'll notice I wasn't refering to
just any fire alarm system...

I brought the subject up. You mentioned an
advanced system which most so-called
"professionals" never even see to try to
counter what I said. That was disingenuous
of you (not that I expected anything better).

but an Edwards 8500...

I did a project for Edwards several years
ago. Nice outfit.

But do go on...

You expected I'd stop if you didn't give
permission? :^)

Your stories of DIY are positively fascinating.

Glad you enjoy them.

I could read them all day long.

It takes you that long?

Heh... right... You've obviously never
_seen_ and 8500 let alone worked on
one.

I haven't needed one. I also haven't needed
to pressurize a stairwell. I've worked on some
fairly large, addressable systems though.
Nevertheless, if a DIYer asks me about an
Edwards 8500 I'll be sure to refer them to some
local dealer.

Is that what they call them in the US?
Up here they're "EVAC's". That's
short for "Evacuation".

Evax is a brand.

Sure they have.


Of course they do.


Bingo! It's taken five separations (and
an equal number of your rambling
dissertations on DIY expertise) to finally
get you to admit the DIY would be
in way over his head in this instance.

I only said that most installers wouldn't
know about that. That has no bearing
on the fact that many DIYers do install
their own commercial fire alarms. We
move several of them per website (there's
more than one) per week.

Having had to wait "weeks" for certain
fire alarm parts (Edwards 6500 for
instance)...

If you are who I think you are, that's all
bullfrank anyway. However, you might
notice I don't sell the 6500 online. As
a policy, I prefer to sell things that can
be ordered through distribution. I do
sell a few manufacturer direct items but
only when there's no alternative. You
wouldn't find any Radionics or DMP on
my site even if they wanted me to sell
it to DIYers (they don't). You will not
find Mircom's limited distribution panels
though I do sell their open lines all the
time.

A liar calling someone else a liar isn't
worth the pixels it's printed on, by the
way.

I guess that means you're about to stop.

Yeah... It takes 3 hours at the most.

It varies with the dealer.

Or the online vendor is "fast, efficient, and
honest or you".

If he gets stuck with you he's screwed for three
to five years. If he decides he doesn't like my
service he can click a link and choose a
competitor in seconds.

That just needs a quick trip to the local
supplier. Add an extra two hours...

Each way, plus an extra week while the
supplier orders it in from the factory. Meanwhile,
my DIY client already has his system up and
running.

Never-the-less, I've seen them post complaints here.

You've seen MM and a few other low grade moron
competitors post using three dozen aliases which
they created, just as Olson did when he created you.

And that's an outright lie, Bass. You damn
well know the procedures involved in filing
a complaint with the BBB...

Yep. I filed one against a pool company once.
It took a few minutes online.

and what they require from both
the complainant...

An online form. Nothing more.

and [the vendor]...

Nothing. Responding is the vendor's
option. You can respond online, by fax,
by mail or not at all.

In fact, you've had dozens of complaints
to deal with over the years...

When the Waco idiot said he'd sent
$9,000 in an envelop and they refused to
believe it was a hoax I stopped bothering
with them. They're a waste of time. They
ignore complaints about members and
do nothing to help non-members.

The count keeps changing upward even
though some of the older ones have aged
off the system.

You guys keep filing more bogus ones.
I don't even reply. Feel free to continue.
No one cares.

That's not what the report says,
and you know it.

I saw it once. It means nothing since all
the complaints filed in the past two and
a half years were bullshit from you and
your pals.

Yeah... and I suppose online stores with
the BBB online seal that do four times the
business you do field the same number
of complaints... Sure...

Vendors who pay to join the BBB get totally
different treatment. I doubt there are many
online alarm vendors doing 4 times my
business though. Smarthome and a few
others are much bigger than us but the vast
majority of online alarm dealers don't touch
my sales.

Really? When was that?

Do your own homework.

Would you like cheese on your fish?

A little bit of grated mozzarela is good if
you mix it in with the Italian style bread
crumbs. The real trick is to squeeze a
bit of lime juice on top just before you
pop it into the oven.

I don't see many "bad" ones.

Uh-huh. No bad alarm installers. Right. :^)

So how much does this "advance
replacement" cost? In terms of actual
charges to your customer (shipping, etc.).

Nothing. We ship repairs and replacements
back to the client at no charge. If the product
is bad out of the box we call tag the defective
part, too. Most of the time the distributors do
that for us anyway. If not, we pick up the tab.
Fortunately, it doesn't happen all that often.

I can't sell "refurbished" parts on a fire
alarm system. That would be illegal...

Bullfrank! Any time you send in a part for
repairs you get back a refurbished part.
It might not even be the same piece you
shipped in either.

ULC doesn't allow board level repairs
except for the actual manufacturer.

Moron! Who did you think I was referring
to as doing the repairs?

Oh, come off it. On a burg system?
Spare boards are cheap.

So you never had a single time when a
burg part failed and there wasn't a spare
on the truck? Please!

Oh, wait. I almost forgot. You're just an
Olson sock puppet. You stock everything
from spare puppets to levitating ladders
and 737 fuselages on your imaginary
trucks... all the while working as a counter
clerk at a small distributor and never once
installing a single *anything*. Pffft!

Nope. They're downloaded from the office.

Behind the counter?

Heh... right... You're such an "eager beaver"
you'ld jump your pool to take an order (from
anyone)...

Wrong again. I wouldn't accept an order from
you if you brought cash to my doorstep.

If it happened to be from someone in this
group, you'd go "ga-ga" with glee.

Why would a dealer order from another dealer
when he could get the part from the same
distributor I do for only 10-15% more than I pay?

Bully for you.

It's better than it used to be when I did
everything myself. For a while I could
hardly keep up. When I got sick last
year I made "temporary" arrangements
to cover me. Those have since changed
from temporary to permanent. Now I'm
looking for a fourth person to help with
technical sales, preferably someone
well versed in CCTV and access control.

And after 30 days?? What?? The part
disappears into the "ether" of some
drop shippers warehouse where it will be
dealt with "sometime"...

If that is how you handle things I feel sorry
for your victims.

Frank warned me about you...

While he was creating the account
to pretend you exist?

Is that a cross between "Doug" and "Bug"?

Yep. You're not the only one in the thread.

So in the six years your business has been
operating the total number of monitored
accounts you sold was... "6"?

I'm not sure where you learned math but
obviously you weren't the brightest kid in
class. It's bad enough you're dishonest
but it's sad you're also dumb as a box
of rocks.

My online venture began almost nine years ago
while I was still running an alarm company in CT.
I kept both going until I finally sold the alarm
company.

When I offered monitoring service to DIYers I
sold only a few monitoring contracts per week.
It wasn't worth the hassle. Now I refer about
the same number to 911 Alarm or Next Alarm.
Let them do it. I'm busy selling systems.

Check "scores". You write a lot of your
own music don't you?...

Nope, but I'm learning to play the keyboard.

Does it have a samba beat, or is it more
"Bass-anova"?

Nah. I prefer forro and pagode. The
latter is kind of like samba with a little extra
spice thrown in. Forro is like country only
the words are in Portuguese. The funny
part is how it got its name. You can do a
little Googling to find that out if you like.

Not _one_ in my neck of the woods.

Oh, bullfrank!

Har-dee-har!... That's about all you
know, isn't it? You can't "DIY" a
fire alarm system in BC, Bass.

That's Canada again. Try to read
more carefully. I already told you
several times I don't give a rat's olson
what Canada allows. I sell in the USA.

I'll bet you can't do so in a lot of
jurisdictions. But, I do like your music.

You never heard me play.

You dispense a lot of "advice", don't you??
Yep.

Do you also design systems?

Do you?

And your point is??

It's getting harder to spot now that my hair
is growing back.

No, actually. It means that the the alarm
association and the companies
_won_, Bass. "With Prejudice".

Oh, OK. So the rule was tossed? That
would mean they can't stop out of state
monitoring firms from servicing local
accounts. I guess that, in turn, means
you're a liar (but we already knew that)
as well as a sock puppet.

My brain really hurts.

No problem. Press *69 next time Cracker
calls. Tell him your the pharmacist and
his meds have been recalled. Give him
your return address. He'll ship you tons of
psychotropic prescription stuff for free.