Re: Liability & responsibility of electrician?

[Mycelium]

It is a character device, so there is no "'absolute'".


The reader is a character device.

Optically reading a printed character results (hopefully by design) in
a specific language (dissemination). Optically reading holes in a card,
tape, sheet, etc. of paper are BINARY decisions, even though reading a
block of such holes disseminates a "character" or "word" of the
"language" being used.

The questions: 'Is there a hole?', and 'At what location?' can
disseminate a hole that would be binary into a hole that represents a
choice or entire character because geographical position is also weighed
in and becomes part of the 'language' of the coding system.

It is still a mere on or off, hole or no hole decision engine at the
reader/punch level. That's binary.

So if the hole's position mattered, the dissemination would be two
fold. Location, and hole/no_hole binary switch. The two can result in a
"character", but the mechanics and the status of the hole or no_hole
question are resolved in a binary manner.

If the hole needs to be in with a group of other holes to determine a
"word" or "character", that is a datagram, read by rows and columns, but
the actual holes are still read binary when the read engine scans that
row/column group to compile the character or word.

Reading a UID tag that is very small and printed white on clear is a
pain in the rear. One has to place a printed sample on a black surface
to get the verifier scanners to read it. It amounts to the same thing. A
series of contrast difference blocks as opposed to holes. Read by a
laser as opposed to an optocoupler or such.

 

[life imitates life]

Actually, they fit more in a smaller area. It's been that way for
some time.

You missed my point. I know that UID holds more data than a barcode in
a smaller area, but that is not what I was referring to with my comment.

I was talking about HUGE datagram, like a DVD master image.

We need quantum holograms. They have done some HUGE data sets into
some very tiny areas, all on the same hologram.

 

[life imitates life]

This data is pretty easy to find, if you're so inclined.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_storage_density

 

[krw]

Optically reading a printed character results (hopefully by design) in
a specific language (dissemination). Optically reading holes in a card,
tape, sheet, etc. of paper are BINARY decisions, even though reading a
block of such holes disseminates a "character" or "word" of the
"language" being used.

Who said anything about optics? By your definition "octal",
"hexadecimal", and "ASCII", don't exist.

The questions: 'Is there a hole?', and 'At what location?' can
disseminate a hole that would be binary into a hole that represents a
choice or entire character because geographical position is also weighed
in and becomes part of the 'language' of the coding system.

Is there a character available? Stuff character.

It is still a mere on or off, hole or no hole decision engine at the
reader/punch level. That's binary.

But there are eight (or five). That's ASCII, or something.

So if the hole's position mattered, the dissemination would be two
fold. Location, and hole/no_hole binary switch. The two can result in a
"character", but the mechanics and the status of the hole or no_hole
question are resolved in a binary manner.

The decision isn't hole/no hole. It's character/no character. You
can't take them one bit at a time.

If the hole needs to be in with a group of other holes to determine a
"word" or "character", that is a datagram, read by rows and columns, but
the actual holes are still read binary when the read engine scans that
row/column group to compile the character or word.

Nope. They're read in parallel. They may be shifted/scanned after,
but they most certainly are read as a character.

Reading a UID tag that is very small and printed white on clear is a
pain in the rear. One has to place a printed sample on a black surface
to get the verifier scanners to read it. It amounts to the same thing. A
series of contrast difference blocks as opposed to holes. Read by a
laser as opposed to an optocoupler or such.

Why can't you stay on topic?

 

[krw]

Not when you're 'always wrong'.

Well, the area of that brain is pretty small. Infinitely so.

 

[Rich.]

Not everywhere, they aren't.


http://www.licensedelectrician.com/Electrician_License.htm

Some excerpts that you will find educational:

"Please note that where no state agency is listed below, there may be
local
licensing agencies that would have control ..."

"Illinois... no licensing of electricians at the state level, check with
local
jurisdictions"

"Indiana ... no licensing of electricians at the state level, check with
local
jurisdictions"

"Iowa ... The law requires that all individual contractors and businesses
performing "construction" work within Iowa be registered with the Division
of
Labor if they earn at least $2,000 a year from that work."

Kansas -- no state licensing agency listed

Mississippi -- no licensing information listed

"Missouri ... check with local jurisdictions for licensing info"

"New York ... check with local jurisdictions for electrical licensing
requirements"

"Ohio ... licenses commercial contractors ... they do not license
residential
contractors ..."

"The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has no requirements related to the
registration, certification or licensure of contractors (or their
employees)
that are engaged in the construction industry. Some of Pennsylvania's
2,565
municipalities have established local licensure or certification
requirements
for contractors or construction trades people. ... The Commonwealth has no
jurisdiction in this matter ... "

So much for your blanket claim that "licenses are required by law." They
are
in many places, sure -- but this ought to make it clear to you that they
certainly are *not* required everywhere.

What your excerpts are stating is that licensing is controlled at the local
level instead of at a state level. None of them say that a license is not
required.

 

[Rich.]

a foot. With THHN, I can safely install nine #12s in one 1/2" EMT, for 4
_completely independent_ 20A circuits (4 phase conductors, 4 grounded
conductors, and one grounding conductor).

Actually, by code you can have 6 phase conductors, 3 neutrals, and use the
EMT as your ground, giving you 6 circuits instead of just 4.

 

[[email protected]]

You might think that. I'd be inclined to think
that it has something to do with the influence of the
electrician's union in the particular jurisdiction...

In the VAST majority of the country licencing and the unions are
totally divorced from each other.

Large percentage of residential electicians are non union in many
areas of the country - both Canada and the USA.

 

[Steve W.]

Tell that to the patrons of the Beverly Hills Supper Club.

Oh... that's right... you can't.

And NONE of the NEC codes would have changed what happened there anyway.

Read the actual report and you will find that they list "electrical" as
the probable cause of the fire. Note PROBABLE.

Many laws were changed as a result, HOWEVER none of them involved the NEC!
The building codes were changed to require sprinklers, use of fire
retardant materials, location of exit doors and occupational levels of
the premises.

 

[Harold and Susan Vordos]

snip---

Very doubtful, actually. Such regulation is frequently at the town, city,
or
county level, not state.

You, apparently, don't live in Washington. The state is *very much* the
authority here. Local and county officials have nothing to do with
electrical power regulations.

Harold

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

Why can't you stay on topic?

It is the same thing. Have you ever even seen a UID?

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

Who said anything about optics? By your definition "octal",
"hexadecimal", and "ASCII", don't exist.

Not at all. As far as optical goes, how do you think the tape is read?
The holes are read by the reader using a visual means. That means that
each hole is a binary decision. It doesn't matter that a series of holes
were organized into a character or word. by the system doing the reading.
I was talking about individual holes.

So if a single hole represents an entire character, I'd be surprised.

 

[Jim Stewart]

In the VAST majority of the country licencing and the unions are
totally divorced from each other.

In some imaginary 7th grade civics class.

In the real world that I live in, the various
unions never miss an opportunity to support
any elected official that is willing to pass
laws or code that will increase their wealth
and job security.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Not at all. As far as optical goes, how do you think the tape is read?
The holes are read by the reader using a visual means. That means that
each hole is a binary decision. It doesn't matter that a series of holes
were organized into a character or word. by the system doing the reading.
I was talking about individual holes.

So if a single hole represents an entire character, I'd be surprised.

Speaking of individual holes ... aw, Archie - you can giuess the rest
yourself like a good little sphincter.

 

[Mycelium]

And NONE of the NEC codes would have changed what happened there anyway.

Are you sure? The cause was poorly terminated Aluminum wiring.

Read the actual report and you will find that they list "electrical" as
the probable cause of the fire. Note PROBABLE.

I was there. It was an electrical fire, and it was determined to be
such, PERIOD, NOT probable.

Many laws were changed as a result, HOWEVER none of them involved the NEC!

The NEC has since modified the specs for dissimilar metals in
terminations. You don't know what you are talking about, if you think
that the BHSC fire was not directly related.

The building codes were changed to require sprinklers, use of fire
retardant materials, location of exit doors and occupational levels of
the premises.

Yes. And the NEC was modified to detail how dissimilar metals are to be
handled in terminations.

 

[Steve W.]

Are you sure? The cause was poorly terminated Aluminum wiring.

I have yet to see a report that has that information in it. The official
report states that it was probable. Even then the code was changed AFTER
the fire. That means that the way the wiring had been done originally
was not recognized as a problem severe enough to warrant action.

I was there. It was an electrical fire, and it was determined to be
such, PERIOD, NOT probable.

The OFFICIAL report lists the cause as PROBABLE.

The NEC has since modified the specs for dissimilar metals in
terminations. You don't know what you are talking about, if you think
that the BHSC fire was not directly related.

It was FAR more than just the BHSC fire that brought about those
changes. Problems with dissimilar metals causing problems have been
acknowledged long before the fires.

Yes. And the NEC was modified to detail how dissimilar metals are to be
handled in terminations.

And it has also been modified to cover the way you install wiring over
the years as well.

 

[Mycelium]

Problems with dissimilar metals causing problems have been
acknowledged long before the fires.

We have known about these things (effects associated with dissimilar
metals in contact with each other)for over a hundred years. That changes
nothing.

 

[Steve W.]

We have known about these things (effects associated with dissimilar
metals in contact with each other)for over a hundred years. That changes
nothing.

That is the point. The CODE did not cover this problem prior to the
fire. NOW it does. Is it tragic that something like this had to happen
first. YES, but that is the way a lot of things work.

 

[[email protected]]

What your excerpts are stating is that licensing is controlled at the local
level instead of at a state level. None of them say that a license is not
required.

In states where licencing is local, unless ALL jurisdictions require
licencing, there would be areas where licencing is not required.

I'm sure this is the case. Vast majority of states, however, DO have
licencing at the state level

 

[[email protected]]

In some imaginary 7th grade civics class.

In the real world that I live in, the various
unions never miss an opportunity to support
any elected official that is willing to pass
laws or code that will increase their wealth
and job security.

Well, where I live, self employed electricians are NOT unionized. The
vast majority of residential electrical work is subcontracted by the
contractor to numerous small electrical contractors - many of which
have no employees. All partners. Therefore, no union.

Industrial and commercial electrical work is almost universally union
because the contractors are union shops or use predominantly union
subs - and union workers generally will not work on the same job as
non-union workers.

Licencing is up to government crooks.
Unions are non-government crooks
Same cloth, different bolt