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Re: Liability & responsibility of electrician?

Discussion in 'Electrical Engineering' started by William Sommerwerck, Jul 5, 2009.

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  1. I would have two simple questions...

    1. Did the electrician have any control over the voltage when the system was

    2. Is it normal for electricians to measure the voltage, and "do something"
    about it if it's not correct (if only reporting the problem to the
  2. You missed the point of the original post. The person who did the work was
    NOT an electrician, they were a "handyman" hired to do the work.

    Since the person never said where they were, it's hard to guess what the
    rules are but in (almost?) every jurisdiction that licenses
    electricians, a license is needed to do electrical work.

    If an unlicensed person does electrical work, the work has to be inspected
    by a licensed electrician before the power is turned on. If that was not the
    case, there would be no point in licensing electricians, would there?

  3. 1. Did the electrician have any control over the voltage when the system
    I didn't miss the point (I think). He was doing the work of an electrician.
    And whether or not he was a licensed electrician, he is still morally
    responsible for the quality of his work. (Think Hamurabi.)

    No, there wouldn't be. But if he botched the job, he has to be held
    responsible. Doesn't he?

    Of course, one might argue that if the person who hired him /knew/ he wasn't
    an electrician, and didn't have the work inspected, then he (the hirer) is
    responsible for whatever went wrong.
  4. What you have not said is what was the voltage supposed to be?

    Where? Common and regular practice as you call it varies from country to

    Also what was the actual voltage at the old location. If it was supposed to
    be 240 volts then 245 is well within actual variations, or the calibration
    of a meter.

    If it was supposed to be 208 or 220 or 308, etc then it is too high.

    This to me is starting to get tedious. A simple question of "who was at fault"
    has become a "pissing contest" over who can make the most outrageous guess
    as to why their champion is guilt free.

    IMHO it really boils down to exactly what the owner of the business expected
    when he hired "the guy". If he hired someone he knew was unlicensed, he
    should have had the work inspected or hired a licensed electrician. Otherwise
    he was taking a chance that he would never get caught cheating, and he lost.

    As for the CNC device failing, his expectation of "the guy" to open it up
    and adjust the voltage tapes is unreasonable. Again he took a chance that
    he could move the device without hiring the proper technician to pack it up,
    unpack it after arival and set it up. And again, he lost.

    Considering the worst outcome of it would have been a fire destroying the
    building, everything in it and killing all the people involved, a $4000
    controller failure, which was probably not caused by the voltage problem
    anyway, is a small price to pay for loosing.

    As for insurance, no property insurance will cover damage due to illegal
    repairs, etc, which includes uninspected work done by unlicensed electricians,
    and no manufacturer will cover damage due to untrained technicians modifying
    the equipment (even to move the voltage taps), or damage caused by over
    voltage due to an unlicensed electrician wiring the equipment.

    There may also be civil and criminal liability here, the best thing to do
    IMHO is to have the company and "the guy" come to an agreement where they
    will leave him alone, and eat the loss. They will then pay for any repairs
    to the equipment and "the work" as legally mandated.

  5. Rich.

    Rich. Guest

    It is not regular practice to inform the owner, unless something is found to
    be wrong. Having 245v in the building is not normal, and there is a lot of
    equipment out there that does not have taps. Equipment without taps could be
    damaged by this higher than usual voltage.

    It is the responsibility of the electrician to make sure the equipment he is
    wiring can correctly run on the power being supplied. IMO the electrician
    did not do his job correctly.
  6. CNC machines are NOT 'house electrician' level work.

    Where did you get the idea that this was a 'house installation'?

  7. 220 to 245 is an 11.4% difference.
  8. You're nuts. Maybe at the end of a 100 yard long run. Maybe.

    There is no reason, however, for the entire feed to a building to sag
    that far between loaded and unloaded.
  9. krw

    krw Guest

    220V service doesn't exist, DimBulb.
  10. Read the post,idiot. If there are no 220 volt service provisions, why
    are there "220 volt taps" on equipment?

    AND if there IS such a tap, then the electrician feeding it MUST
    examine what tap is being fed. PERIOD.
  11. Rich.

    Rich. Guest

    That is correct until you factor in that the taps were set to 220v. If the
    taps were set at 240, then 245v would never have been a problem.
  12. krw

    krw Guest

    Irrelevant to the real world, DimBulb. 220V is so 1950s.
    Different issue, AlwaysWrong.
  13. Someone who has a license, (and/or) is a member of the union, passed a
    test that entitles him to call himself an electrician.

    But not someone with no formal training, licensure or certification.


  14. Yet the taps are still made available on equipment, you idiot. That is
    also what may have caused to over-voltage condition, IDIOT. Improper tap
    selection does cause failure modes.

    You are so 'never was'.
  15. No. It is precisely the issue in this case, you idiot.

  16. Yes and start out by NOT cross posting horseshit questions into several

    That is a retarded nym, but somehow the stupidity of it does fit you.
  17. Then WHY are machine designers and manufacturers STILL placing the taps
    on feed panels?

    You have all the common sense of a fucking shitfly.
  18. You fucking retards!

    Most vocational schools use second hand machinery. Many have machines
    that old in them. So do many shops, you retarded, knows less than
    nothing twit.
  19. I guarantee it doesn't match yours.

    You seem to think that since you understand the rules of making a
    connection that you understand electrical power.

    I doubt seriously that you have such a grasp of the industry.
  20. James Sweet

    James Sweet Guest

    Depends on where you are. Here in the US, the work has to be inspected
    by an inspector, not an electrician. You have to be a licensed
    electrician to be hired by most electrical contracting companies, but
    there is no law against unlicensed people electrical work. I've replaced
    electrical service panels and added circuits for renovations in the
    homes of quite a few friends and family members, I'm not licensed, but
    it was no trouble to get a permit and have the work inspected when it
    was complete. Even licensed electricians have to get their work inspected.
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