Re: Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems

[John Williamson]

And the UK plugs are rather large. That would be a valid criticism.
It spoils the lines of a laptop bag....

http://www.minkyu.co.uk/Site/Product/Entries/2009/4/20_Folding_Plug_System.html

Problem solved. HTH

 

[Eiron]

http://www.minkyu.co.uk/Site/Product/Entries/2009/4/20_Folding_Plug_System.html


Problem solved. HTH

Still not in production?
Does it have a tendency to break and burst into flames?
Designed by a "designer" rather than by an engineer?

 

[David Looser]

Can I just mention another example of European Union lunacy?
Voltage is standardized at 230v +- a fudge factor so that the UK
can keep to 240v and the rest of Europe can keep 220v with no plans
for any country to adopt 230v. Now that is dumb!

I'm not sure it is so dumb
There always was a tolerance range on the UK 240V mains, what happened was
that these tolerance limits were widened and re-centred on 230V. But these
new limits are now EU-wide so any equipment manufactured to these new limits
(230V +/- 10%) is suitable for sale anywhere within the EU.

And the UK plugs are rather large. That would be a valid criticism.
It spoils the lines of a laptop bag....

I agree, the BS1363 plug is not my favourite design. Some years ago there
was a serious attempt to introduce a EU standard plug & socket, an attempt
that failed because of the NIH (not-invented-here) factor. I rather like the
German 'Shucko' socket and would be happy to see it replace the BS1363
socket here, but can you image the reaction of the Daily Mail readers?

David.

 

[John Williamson]

Still not in production?
Does it have a tendency to break and burst into flames?
Designed by a "designer" rather than by an engineer?

Or this:-

http://www.slimplug.com/where.htm

Not *too* expensive, and sufficient for its rated use.

 

[Jerry]

:
: > : Just ask any toddler who has tried to poke a screwdriver
into
: > an outlet.
: >
: > A toddler in the UK "Yeah! This game of sticking things in to
: > these plastic shapes in the wall is fun, lets do it again!"
: >
: > A toddler in the USA (120v) "That tingles, not sure that I
like
: > that..."
: >
: > A toddler in the EU (240v) *flash, bang, wallop* "That hurt
: > daddy, why is my finger throbbing, why has the TV (or what
ever
: > else is on the circuit) stopped working?"
: >
: UK mains sockets have shutters, have you not noticed?

Duh, never! In any case, what happens when this shutter fails, as
can happen, and thus that nice 'safe' electrical outlet becomes
(unknowingly) totally unprotected from such intrusion... Did you
actually bother to read what I said?

: > :
: > : What's your problem with it? And how many of your American
: > plugs are
: > : hanging out of the socket with exposed pins and
intermittent
: > connections?
: > :
: >
: > Indeed, the North America attitude to electrical hardware is
a
: > farce
:
: Agreed.
:
: > (only of the reasons why they are still plagued by high
: > numbers of electrical fires), but then so is the UK's BS*
1363
: > standard for plug/sockets, only in the UK -and those
countries
: > that have copied the UK- is the final circuit protection so
: > designed that it is easy (for the end user) to defeat it
either
: > through ignorance or wilful tampering, thus a device
requiring
: > protection at 3 or 5 amps co so easily end up being actually
: > protected at 13 amps - or 30 amps in the case of wilful
: > tampering...
:
: Have you any data to suggest that deaths or injuries are any
worse here than
: in countries that don't use BS1363 outlets? I was amazed to
find in a modern
: house in Italy that I stayed in this summer that all the
sockets
: (unshuttered and each rated at 10A with fuseless plugs) on each
floor were
: supplied from a single 25A MCB. How is that safer than the
situation here?
:

But then people know that, in the UK appliances could actually be
protected at 30A (with old slow-blow fuse wire) but the person
using the appliance believes that it is protected at the correct
3A. Again I suspect that you didn't actually read (and
understand) what I said...

 

[Terry Casey]

http://www.minkyu.co.uk/Site/Product/Entries/2009/4/20_Folding_Plug_System.html

Problem solved. HTH

I don't think so!

'Click here for folding plug enquiry' leads to

http://www.madeinmind.co.uk/

but the connection times out ...

 

[Terry Casey]

Or this:-

http://www.slimplug.com/where.htm

404 Not Found

Have you got any more out of date links that you'd like us to test for
you ...?

 

[John Williamson]

404 Not Found

Have you got any more out of date links that you'd like us to test for
you ...?

Go to:-
http://www.slimplug.com/

And you can navigate to it from there, but the direct link fails. Odd...

 

[Jerry]

message : Eiron wrote:
: > On 03/01/2012 11:15, John Williamson wrote:
: >> Eiron wrote:
: >>> And the UK plugs are rather large. That would be a valid
criticism.
: >>> It spoils the lines of a laptop bag....
: >>>
: >>
http://www.minkyu.co.uk/Site/Product/Entries/2009/4/20_Folding_Plug_System.html
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >> Problem solved. HTH
: >
: > Still not in production?
: > Does it have a tendency to break and burst into flames?
: > Designed by a "designer" rather than by an engineer?
: >
: Or this:-
:
: http://www.slimplug.com/where.htm
:
: Not *too* expensive, and sufficient for its rated use.
:

Why not use a flat two pin "Euro plug" and travel converter, yes
I know that the travel converter is not exactly flat but it's
slimmer than the UK's BS 1363 plug.

 

[Dave Liquorice]

There always was a tolerance range on the UK 240V mains, what happened
was that these tolerance limits were widened and re-centred on 230V. But
these new limits are now EU-wide so any equipment manufactured to these
new limits (230V +/- 10%) is suitable for sale anywhere within the EU.

The proposed 230v +/- 10% never happened and isn't likely to. The
current tolerance is 230v -6% +10% (216 to 253v)

German 'Shucko' socket and would be happy to see it replace the BS1363
socket here,

A Shucko plug is not a lot smaller, if it is at all, than a 13A plug.

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Can I just mention another example of European Union lunacy?
Voltage is standardized at 230v +- a fudge factor so that the UK
can keep to 240v and the rest of Europe can keep 220v with no plans
for any country to adopt 230v. Now that is dumb!

No, it makes perfect sense. A long time ago England was 240 volts and
continental Europe was 220 volts, both 50Hz. I don't know when this
was standrdized up until WWII France used 120 volt 60Hz AC.

The UK used several systems, and a friend of mine who traveled to London
in the 1970's found that there were four different electrical systems in use
in various parts of the city. By that time they had been standardized to
240 volts 50Hz, but the older plugs and lightbulbs (different ones for
different systems) remained.

Appliances were sold without plugs well into the 1990s.

Still, you had to buy an appliance for 220 volts or 240 volts. Devices used
in both places had a switch on the back.

The new EU standard of 230 volts is not one of exactly 230 volts, like the
old 220 or 240 ones were, it's a requirment that an electrical device sold in
the EU can operate without adjustment from 220-240 volts (more like 210-250)

There were plans of slowly shifting everyone in the EU to 230 volts so there
could be a shared electical grid, but with the economic problems currently
hapening, it would be too much to predict the lights will stay on at all.


Geoff.

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

I agree, the BS1363 plug is not my favourite design. Some years ago there
was a serious attempt to introduce a EU standard plug & socket, an attempt
that failed because of the NIH (not-invented-here) factor. I rather like the
German 'Shucko' socket and would be happy to see it replace the BS1363
socket here, but can you image the reaction of the Daily Mail readers?

Shucko plugs have grounding problems. They rely on the plug being all the
way in (ground is connected AFTER the mains) and an easily bent spring in
the outlet.

Much better is a 230 volt version of the US 3 prong plug, two round pins
like the standard EU ungrounded plug, with a slightly longer ground pin
in the center and below them like this:

O O
O

The advantage is that unless you work at it, the ground pin makes contact
first.

For "double insulated" devices that do not come with a ground pin, the standard
EU 2 pin plug fits fine.

There is no reason that the outlets could not be sold with shutters and or
fuses, or the fuse holders built into the plug body.

Geoff.

 

[Graham.]

Go to:-
http://www.slimplug.com/

And you can navigate to it from there, but the direct link fails. Odd...

It's not odd, it ends in html not htm.
I am less confident about posting this to five groups, let's see.

 

[Jerry]

<snip>
: The UK used several systems, and a friend of mine who traveled
to London
: in the 1970's found that there were four different electrical
systems in use
: in various parts of the city. By that time they had been
standardized to
: 240 volts 50Hz, but the older plugs and lightbulbs (different
ones for
: different systems) remained.

Hmm, surely the 1970s were a tad late for different voltages
(certainly for London), the national grid had been started long
before WW2 and was complete not long after, are you are not
thinking of the different designs of electrical circuits and
sockets in use or perhaps a different time period?

I suppose that some building with their own (derived/generated)
power supplies might have had (still have) 'odd' systems to suit
their own needs, an exception rather than the rule.

 

[Eiron]

I doubt that design will ever fly ...

I see the thinplug.com is now in the shops, actually, I wish it wasn't
retractable ...

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/retra...le-universal-notebook-cable-11083932-pdt.html

That looks good. The only moving part is the plastic earth plug so for
non earthed equipment it will be perfect. And when the plastic pin breaks
you can just use a screwdriver to open the shutters.

 

[Davey]

Shucko plugs have grounding problems. They rely on the plug being all
the way in (ground is connected AFTER the mains) and an easily bent
spring in the outlet.

Much better is a 230 volt version of the US 3 prong plug, two round
pins like the standard EU ungrounded plug, with a slightly longer
ground pin in the center and below them like this:

O O
O

The advantage is that unless you work at it, the ground pin makes
contact first.

Why have the ground pin below the power pins? If anything falls on a
partially inserted plug, then it will hit the power pins and produce a
short, whereas if the ground pin was on top, it would be the one
that was hit, and would be safer. It might even just bounce off with no
sound and light effects.
During my time in the US, I saw both methods used indiscriminately,
although the way you show was, oddly, the official one.

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Hmm, surely the 1970s were a tad late for different voltages
(certainly for London), the national grid had been started long
before WW2 and was complete not long after, are you are not
thinking of the different designs of electrical circuits and
sockets in use or perhaps a different time period?

That was it. It was all 240v 50Hz, but the sockets were still the old ones.

By the time I first got there in 1983, I only saw the ones that are now
in use, but anything electrical was sold without a plug.

Geoff.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

I think this design has been given a very hard time. The criticisms may
be valid, but let them try to sort out the problems, rather than being
nasty about the idea. I think there's an awful lot of
NIH/I-wish-I'd-thought-of-that in the criticisms.

Or this:-

http://www.slimplug.com/where.htm

Not *too* expensive, and sufficient for its rated use.

I have two, and they work well. (Still bulkier than the above though.)
I'm still a bit puzzled, however, that they were allowed to sell them
with a two-pin (actually socket) to three adapter.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

news:[email protected]... []
There always was a tolerance range on the UK 240V mains, what happened was
that these tolerance limits were widened and re-centred on 230V. But these
new limits are now EU-wide so any equipment manufactured to these new limits
(230V +/- 10%) is suitable for sale anywhere within the EU.

And the UK plugs are rather large. That would be a valid criticism.
It spoils the lines of a laptop bag....

I agree, the BS1363 plug is not my favourite design. Some years ago there

It is far too big for most of the devices currently on it, yes - and
also, the three ratings for the matching fuse (BS1362) widely available
are far too high: 3, 5, and 13A. (Even 1A - which you _can_ get in
BS1362, but you don't half have to hunt for it - is too high for most
electronic appliances.) IMO, the fact that the plugs are fused actually
gives a _false_ sense of security, _because_ the fuse ratings are so
high; all that fuse can effectively protect is the mains lead (or power
cord, as it's called in US) itself.

was a serious attempt to introduce a EU standard plug & socket, an attempt
that failed because of the NIH (not-invented-here) factor. I rather like the
German 'Shucko' socket and would be happy to see it replace the BS1363
socket here, but can you image the reaction of the Daily Mail readers?

I feel the same, but I suspect it's because it's what I grew up with (in
British army quarters in Germany, which used German fixtures and
fittings). [I don't think there's a "c" in it, by the way. Oh, hang on -
I think there is, but before the h not the k.]

 

[Jerry]

: In article <[email protected]>, Jerry
:
: > : > :
: > : > : Just ask any toddler who has tried to poke a
screwdriver
: > into
: > : > an outlet.
: > : >
: > : > A toddler in the UK "Yeah! This game of sticking things
in to these
: > : > plastic shapes in the wall is fun, lets do it again!"
: > : >
: > : > A toddler in the USA (120v) "That tingles, not sure that
I
: > like
: > : > that..."
: > : >
: > : > A toddler in the EU (240v) *flash, bang, wallop* "That
hurt daddy,
: > : > why is my finger throbbing, why has the TV (or what
: > ever
: > : > else is on the circuit) stopped working?"
: > : >
: > : UK mains sockets have shutters, have you not noticed?
:
: > Duh, never! In any case, what happens when this shutter
fails, as can
: > happen,
:
: Almost anything "can" happen. But in reality how often does it?
I can't

Not very often, just as kids in areas that do not use the UK's
BS1363 plug/socket don't tend to poke things into other types of
sockets, why because they are *taught* not to whilst being
supervised, of course that is to hard for average UK parents to
manage so the state has to hold their hands so to speak!


: recall ever having the shutters on a UK standard mains socket
fail open on
: any I've used. What statistics do you have for how often they
fail?

None, just personal experience of having to change such sockets,
either fixed or trailing (the same safety concerns exist with
both).

:
: > : Have you any data to suggest that deaths or injuries are
any
: > worse here than
: > : in countries that don't use BS1363 outlets?
:
: > But then people know that, in the UK appliances could
actually be
: > protected at 30A (with old slow-blow fuse wire) but the
person using
: > the appliance believes that it is protected at the correct
3A.
:
: How often is that the case? I've not come across anyone using
fuse wire (of
: any rating) to replace the fuse cart in a mains plug for
decades. is that
: what you are referring to?

No, think metal bolt/rod or similar, that is the same diameter as
the BS fuse and you might get the idea. If an unthinking idiot
can do it, they probably will, I have seen many silly things done
to BS1363 plugs that I have rarely seen/heard happening to a
fuse/breaker panel because even such idiots tend to draw the line
if they need to get more than a (pen-)knife from the kitchen
draw.

Again, what is the statistical evidence for this
: being a significant problem?
:

Why do you think the law was changed in the UK so that all (non
wholesale) domestic, free standing, electrical equipment has to
now come pre-fitted with a BS1363 plug and correct fuse? Clue, it
wasn't for the purchasers convenience...