Fuel Cell cogen

[Steve Spence]

No one in your country has a gun? That's total BS. The crooks have them
and can get them, it's honest folks who can't.

Vancouver, BC - Restrictive firearm legislation has failed to reduce
gun violence in Australia, Canada, or Great Britain. The policy of
confiscating guns has been an expensive failure, according to a new
paper The Failed Experiment: Gun Control and Public Safety in Canada,
Australia, England and Wales, released today by The Fraser Institute.

http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=nr&id=570


Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org

Contributing Editor
http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

 

[Derek Broughton]

Back in the 80s, some town in Georgia passed a law requiring everyone
( I think it was the head of every household) to own a gun. Crime of all
sorts in the town was reduced. I haven't heard any news about it lately.

It happens regularly, and you won't hear any news about it a year later,
because in the long run owning guns, or not, doesn't make any real
difference in crime - and so no news. The Swiss have very low crime rates
and guns. The British have higher crime rates and no guns. The US has
very high crime rates, and guns. Canadians have lower crime rates than
Britain or the US, but higher gun ownership than Britain and lower than the
US.

 

[Steve Spence]

US Statistics:

drunk driving deaths is 17,000 or so.

smoking related deaths is over 400,000 per year.

In 2002, there were 30,000 gun deaths. 17,000 were due to suicide (if no
guns, another method would be chosen). 762 were accidental. 4300 were
gang/drug related.

In 1997 Australia had 437 gun related deaths (1/5 per capita of the
USA), but armed robbery (non gun) is up 20%. Has removing guns cut down
on crime? no, your criminals just switched to different weapons, and
increased their activity.

Australia had 10.9 Drunk Driving Deaths per 100,000 people, about 2100.
The USA has 5 per 100,000. You should worry more about your drinking
than your guns.


Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org

Contributing Editor
http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

 

[Derek Broughton]

Well, it doesn't matter if it's armed crime or unarmed crime, the
criminals know they're safer if their victims are guaranteed to be
unarmed. So, the increase in crime is the result.

Now _that's_ BS. When _I_ was a kid in England, not only did the criminals
not use guns but neither did the police, and crime was a great deal lower
than it is now. Meanwhile, in Canada, where gun ownership is getting more
and more restrictive, violent crime continues to decrease.

 

[Steve Spence]

check your numbers. only 762 were accidental. The rest were deliberate.

Then again, I'm not sure how many !0,000 really is ....


Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org

Contributing Editor
http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

 

[Derek Broughton]

The gun back then was an inferior weapon......with only range being its
edge.

Irrelevant. Steve claimed that he couldn't eat without guns. Primitive
societies have always managed. For me to eat off the land where I live,
I'd do better to set snares for rabbits, and carry a big stick for
porcupines.

Another myth ,seems to be that the Indains were peaceful coexistance
folks,when in reality.
They were the same as the people on any other continent.

Which had to do with what?

 

[Steve Spence]

I haven't been robbed of any freedoms. I haven't been stopped from
saying anything I want to say, building anything I want to build, do
anything I want to do. I still vote, and worship as I choose.


Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org

Contributing Editor
http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

 

[Derek Broughton]

No one in your country has a gun? That's total BS. The crooks have them
and can get them, it's honest folks who can't.

Vancouver, BC - Restrictive firearm legislation has failed to reduce
gun violence in Australia, Canada, or Great Britain. The policy of
confiscating guns has been an expensive failure, according to a new
paper The Failed Experiment: Gun Control and Public Safety in Canada,
Australia, England and Wales, released today by The Fraser Institute.

http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=nr&id=570

Right. What the Fraser Institute failed to point out was that restrictive
firearm legislation in Canada has not _increased_ gun violence, either.
I'd certainly call Canada's legislation an expensive failure but only
because it has made difference to crime, and has been _horrendously_
expensive.

 

[Steve Spence]

I never claimed I couldn't eat without a gun, but I do eat better and
cheaper. If I run across a bear or cat, I'd rather have my rifle than a
snare ......


Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org

Contributing Editor
http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

 

[News]

lately.

It happens regularly, and you won't hear any news about it a year later,
because in the long run owning guns, or not, doesn't make any real
difference in crime - and so no news. The Swiss have very low crime rates
and guns.

Nonsense. Guns are restricted in Switzerland. Reservists have to take one
home and have it is special locked metal cabinet.

The British have higher crime rates
Nonsense.

and no guns.

Few people killed by them, which you omitted.

The US has very high crime rates, and guns.

Correction. The USA has carnage because of guns. 80 a day are killed by
gunshot. About a million since WW2 have dies via gunshot - CARAGE.

Canadians have lower crime rates than
Britain or the US, but higher gun ownership
than Britain and lower than the US.

You omitted at lot. This will put you right:
http://www.gun-control-network.org/

 

[News]

check your numbers. only 762 were accidental. The rest were deliberate.

Then again, I'm not sure how many !0,000 really is ....

Over 80 a day are killed in the USA via gunshot, that is over 20,000 per
year. Carnage. Unbelievable. And to think people still want that situation
to continue amazes me.

 

[News]

Right. What the Fraser Institute failed to point out was that restrictive
firearm legislation in Canada has not _increased_ gun violence, either.
I'd certainly call Canada's legislation an expensive failure but only
because it has made difference to crime, and has been _horrendously_
expensive.

The Cullen inquiry in 1996 at the Uni of Ottawa, said exactly the opposite.

 

[Steve Spence]

Mostly gangbangers eliminating each other. It's a public service .....


Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org

Contributing Editor
http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

 

[News]

Over 80 a day are killed in the USA via gunshot, that is over 20,000 per
year. Carnage. Unbelievable. And to think people still want that situation
to continue amazes me.

Sorry, 29,000 per year.

 

[News]

Right. What the Fraser Institute failed to point out was that restrictive
firearm legislation in Canada has not _increased_ gun violence, either.
I'd certainly call Canada's legislation an expensive failure but only
because it has made difference to crime, and has been _horrendously_
expensive.

The gun lunatics main argument is that if guns are banned all criminals will
have guns and crime will rise drastically. This is total tosh!

 

[News]

Mostly gangbangers eliminating each other. It's a public service .....

29,000 gangster shoot each other each year? You are scarping the barrel.
Just stop telling yourself lies and believing them,.

 

[Dale Farmer]

Right. What the Fraser Institute failed to point out was that restrictive
firearm legislation in Canada has not _increased_ gun violence, either.
I'd certainly call Canada's legislation an expensive failure but only
because it has made difference to crime, and has been _horrendously_
expensive.

As I understand it, there has been massive noncompliance with canada's
gun registration program, once one gets away from the capitol. To the
point that the RCMP officers union is advocating that the program be
abolished and the money spent on real policing.

--Dale

 

[Dale Farmer]

The gun lunatics main argument is that if guns are banned all criminals will
have guns and crime will rise drastically. This is total tosh!

Then the huge rises in violent crime in the UK and in AU after sweeping
gun bans were enacted are completely illusory?

--Dale

 

[News]

Then the huge rises in violent crime in the UK and in AU after sweeping
gun bans were enacted are completely illusory?

--Dale

Read this. This will put you right - many ways
http://tinyurl.com/d94xz

 

[Derek Broughton]

Nonsense. Guns are restricted in Switzerland. Reservists have to take
one home and have it is special locked metal cabinet.

So? Everybody in Canada has to keep their firearms in special locked
cabinets, too.

Nonsense.

Not. But that's fine. It's not particularly important whose are lower,
merely that there is no clear trend to less crime _or_ less violent crime
when you allow or disallow gun ownership.

Few people killed by them, which you omitted.

That might be a fair statistic - I didn't _omit_ it so much as have a clue
whether it's true.

Correction. The USA has carnage because of guns. 80 a day are killed by
gunshot. About a million since WW2 have dies via gunshot - CARAGE.

well, if you want to flame those who essentially support your position, you
can just keep being an idiot...

You omitted at lot. This will put you right:
http://www.gun-control-network.org/

BS. It won't "put me right". It'll give me a whole other bunch of
lop-sided statistics. I don't support guns. I don't think _anybody_, even
if they're scared of their government like Americans, needs a gun. I can
defend myself just fine, thanks. However, I'll put my (Canadian) lifestyle
up against either yours or Steve's any time.