Connect with us

Will covering ring on male TRS jack with tape work?

Discussion in 'Audio' started by Ronx, Aug 9, 2019.

  1. Ronx

    Ronx

    10
    0
    Jul 30, 2019
    I plan to connect balanced TRS output with unbalanced TS input and I wonder if instead of cutting the cable and leaving ring floating I could just cover the male jack itself (the ring part that goes to the unbalanced input) with insulation tape. My guess is it should prevent the signal from the ring connect with the sleeve of the unbalanced, TS input.
     
  2. davenn

    davenn Moderator

    13,242
    1,743
    Sep 5, 2009

    no, the tape will just get pushed off when the plug is inserted in the socket then it will block up the socket
     
    Ronx likes this.
  3. Audioguru

    Audioguru

    2,549
    574
    Sep 24, 2016
    Simply do not connect your unbalanced circuit to the ring terminal of the jack. The tip will be the live signal and the sleeve will be ground.
     
    Ronx likes this.
  4. Ronx

    Ronx

    10
    0
    Jul 30, 2019
    Thanks for the reply. How do I do that? The only thing that I can think of is cutting cables, connecting TRS Tip with TS tip, TRS sleeve with TS sleeve and leaving TRS ring floating. What's your solution?
     
  5. Ronx

    Ronx

    10
    0
    Jul 30, 2019
    Ok, thanks for clearing things up.
     
  6. Audioguru

    Audioguru

    2,549
    574
    Sep 24, 2016
    You have a balanced TRS "stereo" plug and you have a balanced TRS jack instead of a unbalanced TS "mono" jack. Simply connect the T live wire and the S ground wire to the jack with its R terminal not connected to anything.
     
    Ronx likes this.
  7. hexreader

    hexreader

    105
    19
    Apr 21, 2011
    I have devices (Behringer 9024, DSP1400P) that require that the "ring" output (and inputs) be grounded for single ended output, otherwise massive noise and distortion are introduced. I sense that the solution balanced to single-ended depends on the devices to be connected.

    See discussion here:

    https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=57712
     
    Ronx likes this.
  8. Audioguru

    Audioguru

    2,549
    574
    Sep 24, 2016
    The "ring" output on a balanced connector is a signal that might cause damage if grounded. Connecting the T as a signal and the S as the cable shield and ground wire should work fine with a -6dB signal loss.
     
  9. hexreader

    hexreader

    105
    19
    Apr 21, 2011
    .... unless you own the (admittedly old) devices that I mentioned ...

    Did you read the discussions from my link?

    "Should work fine" is not the same as "does work fine"

    ... or maybe I mis-understand my own experiences ...

    Maybe the answer is to try open circuit ring, then if you hear excessive noise, try short circuiting the ring? Or maybe (not tried it) resistor rather than short would satisfy all equipment? I will be interested to hear of any simple solution that is optimal for all equipment of all ages that suits all circumstances.

    Interesting topic though....
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
  10. Audioguru

    Audioguru

    2,549
    574
    Sep 24, 2016
    I did not finish reading the other thread.
    Half of a balanced output T and S (where the S is the cable shield) is the same as an unbalanced shielded signal. If you get a ground loop and its noises then you should use balanced to balanced.
     
  11. Martaine2005

    Martaine2005

    2,372
    626
    May 12, 2015
    I agree with @hexreader . It totally depends on the equipment.
    Some equipment have circuitry to adjust the signal depending on it’s input signal. Some attenuate while others amplify. Some have a simple switch. Some TRS to TS converters have impedence matching.
    However, The OP is going from an audio interfase to a guitar pedal.
    Balanced to unbalanced. TRS to TS will GND the ring. Now again, depending on the circuitry of OPs equipment, it will likely have one of four outcomes.
    1. Wont work at all
    2. Has signal loss (-6db) there about.
    3. Has distortion (possibly line level)
    4. Ground loop hum
    All the above are easily rectified but YOU need to DO it first and post your results, if any. It might work absolutely fine with no problems.
    As @Tha fios agaibh always says “suck it and see”

    Martin
     
  12. hexreader

    hexreader

    105
    19
    Apr 21, 2011
    Agreed - balanced to balanced is the obvious professional solution.

    But I sense that you have missed my point. Half of balanced signal is not always the same as unbalanced at half amplitude. Picture an output that consists of transformer secondary that is isolated from shield. Connecting only one side of the secondary winding will not give any meaningful signal.

    Not sure if my equipment has a transformer at the output, but it seems to behave as if it does. Shorting the ring to shield solves my balanced to unbalanced issues admirably, but according to the forum I linked to, it can cause damage to some equipment.

    Edit: After checking Behringer 9024 manual, I see that it instructs that one leg (ring) be connected with shield when using unbalanced output (30 Ohm) over balanced output (60 Ohm). The impedance difference suggests to me that the output is not as simple as just a transformer. Don't understand.... I only know that open circuit ring does not work, while shorted ring does
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
  13. Martaine2005

    Martaine2005

    2,372
    626
    May 12, 2015
    Shorted ring works because some inputs (old) have a larger shield connection thus shorting the ring. Newer or typically available equipment have a smaller shield connection avoiding the ring. Others have deliberately shorted the ring for this purpose. It’s not rocket science. Other than that, the impedence will be determined by the device. Then impedence matching may be employed to use a suitable output level.
    Your old equipment is newer than mine. I have balanced to unbalanced . Some equipment needs isolation, others need ground hum. GND reference . If both devices use the same GND, it can have terrible ground loop.
     
  14. Ronx

    Ronx

    10
    0
    Jul 30, 2019
    I'll leave ring floating and see how it goes. I was also checking out this site on audio connections: rane.com/note110.html

    And from what I can see my case would be 9b, TRS to TS. The diagram says to leave ring floating. I hope it will work.

    11 figure looks similar but I don't know what cross coupled output is. I'm connecting tascam us2x2 (line out) with Behringer super fuzz pedal.
     
  15. Audioguru

    Audioguru

    2,549
    574
    Sep 24, 2016
    I was thinking about a balanced output done with opamps that are not isolated from the shield ground like a transformer would be.
     
    Ronx likes this.
Ask a Question
Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?
You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.
Electronics Point Logo
Continue to site
Quote of the day

-