What happens to old FM radios?

[Per Stromgren]

Old FM radios never die, they just fade away...

I have owned and used quite a number of ordinary table top (or
portable) radios in my life. All of them tend to go bad in the same
way after some 10 years or so: they do not "hold the station" and
distort from mis-tuning. You try to adjust the tuning on them every
day, although they have been tuned to your local station for a number
of years without a problem. The audio section typically works fine, as
I can conclude from the ones that has a line input. I usually throw
them away and buy new ones, but I would like to know what age do to
them. My radios all have had pre-selected tuning of the variable
resistor type. My current Philips kitchen radio is a 1991 model that
is on its way to the city dump...

Anyone knows what typically happens to (ordinary) FM radios with age?

Would I have better luck with a digitally tuned device?

Per.

 

[Laurence Taylor]

Old FM radios never die, they just fade away...

I have owned and used quite a number of ordinary table top (or
portable) radios in my life. All of them tend to go bad in the same
way after some 10 years or so: they do not "hold the station" and
distort from mis-tuning. You try to adjust the tuning on them every
day, although they have been tuned to your local station for a number
of years without a problem. The audio section typically works fine, as
I can conclude from the ones that has a line input. I usually throw
them away and buy new ones, but I would like to know what age do to
them. My radios all have had pre-selected tuning of the variable
resistor type. My current Philips kitchen radio is a 1991 model that
is on its way to the city dump...

I haven't noticed this effect with capacity/inductance tuned sets.

The most likely cause is changes in the resistance track and switch
contacts (if the readio uses mechanical switches) caused by ingress of
dirt or damp, as well as mechanical wear. A less likely fault would be
component failure somewhere in the power section, supplying the
voltage to the tuning controls.

None of the components involved are expensive and if you are otherwise
happy with the set it is well worth repairing.

--

rgds
LAurence

....Seven and a half million years and all you can come up with is 42?

 

[Mark D. Zacharias]

Many radio's suffer from alignment problems as they get older. This applies
to digital models also, but not so much, since they have fewer adjustments
and are somewhat self-compensating. Station frequency, for example, won't
drift, but component values do somewhat, meaning VCO and discriminator
alignments may need to be re-done.

Mark Z.

 

[Per Stromgren]

Many radio's suffer from alignment problems as they get older. This applies
to digital models also, but not so much, since they have fewer adjustments
and are somewhat self-compensating. Station frequency, for example, won't
drift, but component values do somewhat, meaning VCO and discriminator
alignments may need to be re-done.

I probably won't do that, these sets are selled by the dozen, but out
of curiousity: what components values can drift with age?

Mark Z.

Per.

 

[Charles Schuler]

I probably won't do that, these sets are selled by the dozen, but out
of curiousity: what components values can drift with age?

All component values drift with age. Your problem seems to be temperature
sensitivity or voltage sensitivity. For example, if the supply voltage to
the local oscillator drifts then the frequency will be affected. When you
are listening to an FM station at 100 on the dial, the local oscillator is
running at 110.7 MHz and a drift of only 0.1 % will throw the tuning way
off. That's why older receivers used AFC and newer ones use PLL frequency
synthesizers for the local oscillator.

 

[Per Stromgren]

All component values drift with age. Your problem seems to be temperature
sensitivity or voltage sensitivity. For example, if the supply voltage to
the local oscillator drifts then the frequency will be affected. When you
are listening to an FM station at 100 on the dial, the local oscillator is
running at 110.7 MHz and a drift of only 0.1 % will throw the tuning way
off. That's why older receivers used AFC and newer ones use PLL frequency
synthesizers for the local oscillator.

Thanks. PLL synthesized tuners was probably what I meant when I said I
would look for "digital" radios. I'm a lot wiser know, thanks!

One last one, while I have I have you guys on the line: will the drift
"amplitude" of component values grow with age as well? Otherwise, it
would just be a matter of re-tuning, but that does not seem to help in
the normal case. These radio set drift away happily while listeing.

Per.

 

[Michael Black]

All component values drift with age. Your problem seems to be temperature
sensitivity or voltage sensitivity. For example, if the supply voltage to
the local oscillator drifts then the frequency will be affected. When you
are listening to an FM station at 100 on the dial, the local oscillator is
running at 110.7 MHz and a drift of only 0.1 % will throw the tuning way
off. That's why older receivers used AFC and newer ones use PLL frequency
synthesizers for the local oscillator.

I pulled an analog AM/FM portable out of the garbage, and it had the inability
to stay on the station it was last on when I turned it on. Cleaning the
am/fm switch fixed the problem. I can't remember if the issue was on both
am and fm, or just FM.

Michael

 

[Michael A. Covington]

One last one, while I have I have you guys on the line: will the drift
"amplitude" of component values grow with age as well? Otherwise, it
would just be a matter of re-tuning, but that does not seem to help in
the normal case. These radio set drift away happily while listeing.

Yes, probably.

Also, a more serious problem is that the parts are drifting away from each
other. Thus, initially the radio had everything right in the center of the
desired range, and there was lots of tolerance for drift. Now, parts have
already drifted apart so that the working range is very narrow. That is, if
one IF stage goes up in frequency and the other one goes down, the range
where they overlap is much smaller than before -- so if something else then
drifts, it will be much more likely to have a noticeable effect.

 

[Ken G.]

As far as i`m concerned all commecial FM radios can go in the garbage
because they have a problem playing 50% commercials .
I now have XM satalite radio and finally away from constant car
commercials and war news every 10 minutes

 

[William R. Walsh]

Hi!

As far as i`m concerned all commecial FM radios can go in the garbage
because they have a problem playing 50% commercials .
I now have XM satalite radio and finally away from constant car
commercials and war news every 10 minutes

I don't know about that...there are plenty of other uses for these radios.
If you don't like the programming you find, make your own. There exist very
low power devices to transmit any line level signal into the average FM
radio. I think I've even see a few that did both AM and FM.

Or take it a step further and maybe get a license for LPFM?

There are still a few good radio stations in this area, but some have died
recently. Usually the commercials aren't the problem...the programming I
like to hear just isn't very popular any longer.

William

 

[James Sweet]

Hi!


I don't know about that...there are plenty of other uses for these radios.
If you don't like the programming you find, make your own. There exist very
low power devices to transmit any line level signal into the average FM
radio. I think I've even see a few that did both AM and FM.

Or take it a step further and maybe get a license for LPFM?

There are still a few good radio stations in this area, but some have died
recently. Usually the commercials aren't the problem...the programming I
like to hear just isn't very popular any longer.

William

Yeah that's what I do, transmitter in the house on the computer, can play
CD's, MP3's, etc and pick them up in the garage on the radio out there, on
my walkman for mowing the lawn, and anywhere else.

 

[Per Stromgren]

As far as i`m concerned all commecial FM radios can go in the garbage
because they have a problem playing 50% commercials .

No problem, in our house we only listen to national commercial free
radio. Try NPR!

Per.

 

[Mark D. Zacharias]

Enjoy commercial-free while it lasts. Soon it will be just like regular
cable tv, commercials and all. You'll have to pay extra for the
commercial-free content, just like HBO and the like on cable tv.

Mark Z.

 

[Per-Åke Andersson]

Old FM radios never die, they just fade away...

I have owned and used quite a number of ordinary table top (or
portable) radios in my life. All of them tend to go bad in the same
way after some 10 years or so: they do not "hold the station" and
distort from mis-tuning. You try to adjust the tuning on them every
day, although they have been tuned to your local station for a number
of years without a problem. The audio section typically works fine, as
I can conclude from the ones that has a line input. I usually throw
them away and buy new ones, but I would like to know what age do to
them. My radios all have had pre-selected tuning of the variable
resistor type. My current Philips kitchen radio is a 1991 model that
is on its way to the city dump...

Anyone knows what typically happens to (ordinary) FM radios with age?

Would I have better luck with a digitally tuned device?

Per.

OLD FM-radios just got better ( because new ones going worse).
Dont think its because the new ones are from far away( from Asia), but
the constuction of the electronic circuits is bad (read cheap).
Dont know what happened to your Philips.Perhaps its not your Philips but
increased radio noise in your neighbourhood. Or the radiostation decreasing
there output power (power cost).
What type of Philips radio is it ?
(I have schematic diagram of three types from late 60 to early 80th.
Or try to ask at usenet "swnet.teknik.elektronik" )


Now a little bit "swedish".
I am owner of at least 5 Philips "table top" FM-radios type Philetta
from late
60-s early 70-th. All are pretuned (or "semi-pretuned"), made in
Norrkoping Sweden.
One of them I am using daily in 30-years now. Thats quality !
Have a look at a few of them here under "transistorapparater 1960-talet"
or under
"Radioapparater" to the left.
http://samlaren.se-swed.net/
Power and frequency of swedish radio stations here:
http://www.teracom.se

Try to keep that old Philips going Per ,because the DAB-radios are
coming (I think).

/Per-Ake
NPR-listener

 

[Mark D. Zacharias]

Nice to hear that Philips ever made quality equipment.

I wouldn't buy their U.S. marketed product on a bet.


Mark Z.

 

[Ken G.]

I dont have a big collection of cd`s to transmit and dont own a computer
..

XM provides almost every type of music for penneys a day with the name
of the song and artist on the display.. no way could i own such an
eclectic collection of cd`s for that cheap . they also have lots of talk
radio and news for those who like that .
I hope they dont go commercial .. i may dump it if they do . Regular
radio around here is not totaly garbage but quite behind the times and
very commercial .

 

[Ken G.]

I dont have a big collection of cd`s to transmit and dont own a computer
..

XM provides almost every type of music for penneys a day with the name
of the song and artist on the display.. no way could i own such an
eclectic collection of cd`s for that cheap . they also have lots of talk
radio and news for those who like that .
I hope they dont go commercial .. i may dump it if they do . Regular
radio around here is not totaly garbage but quite behind the times and
very commercial .

 

[Karel Jansen]

OLD FM-radios just got better ( because new ones going worse).
Dont think its because the new ones are from far away( from Asia), but
the constuction of the electronic circuits is bad (read cheap).
Dont know what happened to your Philips.Perhaps its not your Philips but
increased radio noise in your neighbourhood. Or the radiostation decreasing
there output power (power cost).
What type of Philips radio is it ?
(I have schematic diagram of three types from late 60 to early 80th.
Or try to ask at usenet "swnet.teknik.elektronik" )


Now a little bit "swedish".
I am owner of at least 5 Philips "table top" FM-radios type Philetta
from late
60-s early 70-th. All are pretuned (or "semi-pretuned"), made in
Norrkoping Sweden.
One of them I am using daily in 30-years now. Thats quality !
Have a look at a few of them here under "transistorapparater 1960-talet"
or under
"Radioapparater" to the left.
http://samlaren.se-swed.net/
Power and frequency of swedish radio stations here:
http://www.teracom.se

Try to keep that old Philips going Per ,because the DAB-radios are
coming (I think).

/Per-Ake
NPR-listener

I expect it is a capacitor getting old.

 

[Sean O'Leathlobhair]

Old FM radios never die, they just fade away...

I have owned and used quite a number of ordinary table top (or
portable) radios in my life. All of them tend to go bad in the same
way after some 10 years or so: they do not "hold the station" and
distort from mis-tuning. You try to adjust the tuning on them every
day, although they have been tuned to your local station for a number
of years without a problem. The audio section typically works fine, as
I can conclude from the ones that has a line input. I usually throw
them away and buy new ones, but I would like to know what age do to
them. My radios all have had pre-selected tuning of the variable
resistor type. My current Philips kitchen radio is a 1991 model that
is on its way to the city dump...

Anyone knows what typically happens to (ordinary) FM radios with age?

Would I have better luck with a digitally tuned device?

Per.

Sorry not an answer but a comment inspired by yours.

About 20 years ago I bought a NAD 3020B amplifier and a 4020 AM / FM
tuner.

Some years ago these got put away in the loft. More recently, I found
a use for them and took them out again.

The amplifier still sounds good and the only thing it lacks compared
to a new one is remote control. I cannot detect much difference
between it and my newer amplifiers.

The tuner was very disappointing. It was tuned with an old style knob
and a needle moving along a dial. I could cope with that since I
don't change channels a lot. But the sound was very much poorer than
my newer NAD 701 receiver. Both were fed from the same roof aerial
via the same distribution box. I could not even give the thing away
and it had to go to the dump.

Did the tuner degrade much more than the amplifier or have my
standards been raised by newer better tuners?

It was replaced with a Denon receiver. I considered just a tuner to
use with the 3020 but my wife wanted remote control and the receiver
was not much more than just a tuner. There is a surprisingly poor
choice of FM tuners these days. It seems that few people want them.
I am currently very happy with this tuner. As well as a good sound,
features such as remote control and RDS are attractive.

So the 3020 is back in the loft but I am keeping it. If it can sound
good after 20 years, it can last a few more and I may find another use
for it.

Seán O'Leathlóbhair

 

[James Sweet]

Sorry not an answer but a comment inspired by yours.

About 20 years ago I bought a NAD 3020B amplifier and a 4020 AM / FM
tuner.

Some years ago these got put away in the loft. More recently, I found
a use for them and took them out again.

The amplifier still sounds good and the only thing it lacks compared
to a new one is remote control. I cannot detect much difference
between it and my newer amplifiers.

The tuner was very disappointing. It was tuned with an old style knob
and a needle moving along a dial. I could cope with that since I
don't change channels a lot. But the sound was very much poorer than
my newer NAD 701 receiver. Both were fed from the same roof aerial
via the same distribution box. I could not even give the thing away
and it had to go to the dump.

Did the tuner degrade much more than the amplifier or have my
standards been raised by newer better tuners?

It was replaced with a Denon receiver. I considered just a tuner to
use with the 3020 but my wife wanted remote control and the receiver
was not much more than just a tuner. There is a surprisingly poor
choice of FM tuners these days. It seems that few people want them.
I am currently very happy with this tuner. As well as a good sound,
features such as remote control and RDS are attractive.

So the 3020 is back in the loft but I am keeping it. If it can sound
good after 20 years, it can last a few more and I may find another use
for it.

Seán O'Leathlóbhair

Chances are the tuner was out of alignment, there's not much to go wrong
with power amplifiers.