If mobile bandwidth increases 1000x fold what happens to radiation ?

[Skybuck Flying]

Hello,

I remember a posting of myself where I recgonized a trend for bandwidth on
"wired communication/internet".

If I remember correctly the trend was: 1000x bandwidth each 15 years.

Let's suppose for a moment that this trend blows over towards mobile
phones/ipads/tablets and so forth.

My question is then the following:

What happens to the radiation associated with such bandwidth ? How does it
scale ?

In other words: How is radiation related to bandwidth ?

Is it for example 1 to 1 ? Which would mean 1000x bandwidth is 1000x
radiation ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[The_Giant_Rat_of_Sumatra]

In 15 years, Skybuck will be 25 year old (...judging by the overall
maturity of his postings here.)
According to this chart: http://www.halls.md/on/boys-height-w.htm, and
giving Skybuck the benefit of the doubt, he will reach his adult
height of about 182 cm (71.6 inches) by that time.

The adult human body is particularly resonant at VHF frequencies,
based on wavelength and geometry.
Thus, Skybuck's real question should focus on whether these VHF
frequencies will be reallocated to WiFi or similar wireless
technologies 15 years from now.
Perhaps he could graph for us the dosimetry over time, since kids
today seem to be glued to their XBoxes and Nintendos.

Just sell the retard's parents the deluxe version of the tin foil hat
for the fucking kid and be done with it.

 

[[email protected]]

All else being equal, sure.

But all else won't be equal: There isn't enough wireless spectrum available to
obtain 1000x more using technology that's reasonably forseeable in the next 15
years. ...

Actually, there is, but it needs some lateral thinking and some of
the tradeoffs are implausible It would mean returning to
backpack mobiles - remember them? - and they wouldn't sell, even
with much more bandwidth. And see below ....

Will you be more eletromagnetically irradiated in 15 years than you are now?
Probably. But compared to the total EM exposure you have in your life anyway?
(I.e., the sun at ~ 1000 watts/m^2 is pretty hard to compete with...) --
Probably no significant difference.

That is NOT true. We are adapted to the sun's radiation spectrum,
and the amount that reaches earth in the relevant range is small.
We are already seeing (minor) problems with mobile telephones and
a large increase in radiation would make things a lot worse, because
the biological effects are often non-linear.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Just sell the retard's parents the deluxe version of the tin foil hat
for the fucking kid and be done with it.

This sounds like a nice job for "Mythbusters" if they are still around by
then ! =D

Maybe/perhaps in the future when things get out of hand I will send them an
e-mail and ask them to test what it takes to make one's house "wireless
radiation proof".

Would it actually help/work to cover every single millimeter with tinfoil
?!?

And if not what does it take to transform an house or an appartment into a
"wireless-radiation-proof" facility ?!? =D

One last question is:

Which people are better off:

Those on the ground in houses or those people up in the air in appartments
?!? Or doesn't it matter ?! =D

Bye,
Skybuck *D

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Also I read story about new (man somebody outside put something on fire,
like waste bag or something, crazy people... anyway it seems to be out
now... bleh... bad plastic smell, I thought my graphics card was burning up
or something)

anyway... as I was writing I read story about new solar panels that could
extract infrared from sun or something and turn it into energy...

So for windows maybe special glass can be made which extracts wireless
signals and turns it into free energy and at the same time keep the
radiation out and still provide see threw uppertunities ! =D *

These products would then be interesting for the tin-foil-hat crowd which
wants to protect their houses from wireless radiation ! =D

Though replacing glass will probably be expensive =D and this still
doesn't solve concrete walls, maybe they need some protection too !

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[[email protected]]

Actually, for fair-skinned folks, I don't think we are all that well adapted
even to the sun's spectrum -- look at all those English convictsXXXXXXX
subjects who now live in Australia, and how much of an increase they had in
skin cancer prior to very aggressive "splish splash splosh" sunscreen
campaigns.

Actually, it's not that simple, and there is now some significant
evidence that that campaign (and even the use of 'sunscreen') may
be a major factor in the current 'melanoma epidemic'. Don't confuse
the very common basal and squamous cell carninomas with melanoma.

I'm not too worried about it. At least at traditional VHF, UHF, and microwave
frequencies, research into safe exposure limits occurred many decades ago, and
the kind of power levels that WiFi access points and cell phones put out are
nothing compared to what's "clearly" damaging. ...and while I'd agree that,
OK, maybe there are some low-order effects that cause an extra few people in a
million to come down with cancer or something similarly disturbing, at some
point you have to just go with "don't sweat the small stuff" and, as I
mentioned to Skybuck, weigh those new problems created against old problems
removed.

Really? I am afraid that you are wrong in all respects, and there
is increasing concern. That research was entirely into the acute
effects, which I agree are minor, but there is increasing and very
serious evidence of delayed harm, especially to children. And
it's not a few in a million, either, but potentially a very high
proportion. Remember that such effects often take many decades
to show up, and handheld mobile telephones have been widespread only
for a couple of decades.

Note that I am NOT joining the tinfoil hat brigade, but pointing
out that we really don't know the magnitude of our existing problems
and there is increasing evidence that they are orders of decimal
magnitude worse than we thought. But, as we thought they were
negligible (as you do), that leaves a HELL of a range for the
uncertainty.

If you doubt me, chase up some of the papers in the public health
journals on such things.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

 

[[email protected]]

Intreresting. Wouldn't that turn out to be a bummer?

Indeed. The lawyers would have a field day, especially as this
has been suspected for decades. Just like tobacco.

I'm pretty sure I'm correct about not personally worrying about it too much.

Oh, I agree there. Nor am I - I don't use a mobile Not for
that reason, but because I loathe them. There's no reason to panic,
but no reason to assume that there is no problem, either.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

 

[[email protected]]

All else is noe equal. The _energy_ is not equal. The energy used
per Mhz in moderm mobile networks is orders of magnitude smaller
than just a decade ago. That is done by building a lot more, but
smaller, base stations. Tranmsitting with a lot less power.

But the core networks remain fiber optic networks, using wave
division multiplexing (WDM) to run many (=5-100) colours on
each fiber.

Where was I ruling out installing a thousand times more fibre?

Yes, I agree. Remove one bottleneck and we will almost immediately
hit the next. It's technically feasible, but the cost-benefit
analysis will rule it out.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Sure... but be certain that you don't have any scary 50Hz power outlets in
the house or anything else electric in there either: The tinfoil will work
both ways, keeping anything you generate inside the house *still* inside
the house rather than allowing it to escape toward Alpha Centauri.

Yeah so I guess tinfoil won't help since my computer is probably outputting
radiation as well... and if it keeps bouncing around
then it probably gets worse, dito for my micro-wave heating kitchen
appliance

But then again at a certain point it's a question of "what's out there" and
"what's in here".

If "what's out there" is much much worse than "what's in here" then maybe it
still has some value to it

Perhaps there is a way to "push" the radiation outside via a little hole
which can be closed after the radiation is gone ! =D

Some kind of tunneling system perhaps... maybe a special form which guides
the "radiation waves" (?) outside/through it.

(Sounds like origamy folding doesn't it ).

That guy Ted Kaczynski had some good ideas on the subject.

Gje ? The una-bomber lol... what does he have to do with it ?! =D Ha-ha
good joke I guess ! =D

Seriously, if you want to avoid all electromagnetic radiation, you are
going to have to live out in the country somewhere without most modern
technological convenients.

Well that's becoming quite hard now isn't it with the planet slowly becoming
full... ocean comes to mind... but it's a bit wobbly !

And you need to decide which frequencies you're worried about anyway --
the earth itself is putting out tons of terahertz blackbody radiation,
after all, as is every other mass in the universe.


Good question. The folks up high in the apartments get a bit more
ionizing radiation (as do people who fly a lot), but if their windows can
be opened they probably also get to breathe somewhat cleaner air than the
folks at ground level.

Let's just stick to the radiation issue for now, yeah ?! =D

Exchanging one for the other doesn't really help here.

---

Your questions, Skybuck, are good ones but you have to realize that they
don't have any really easy answers -- this is the kind of stuff that
people spend years studying, and the results are still often inconclusive.
On the other hand, the good news is that you live in an age where your
life expectancy is roughly double that of even just your great
grandparents (see, e.g.,
http://www.northeastplanning.com/adv_container/images/life_expectancy_400.jpg
). ...so while these are issues worth investigating, be aware that much
of the "low-hanging fruit" of increasing life expectancy has likely
already been harvested. Even if you had, say, conclusive proof that, say,
a certain frequency or power of EM radiation causes a certain number of
deaths per year, while that should absolutely be investigated and
hopefully mitigated, it also has to be weighed against the lives saved by
that same technology. E.g., automobiles cause tons of deaths ever year,
but arguably having them around saves even more, you know?

We will and shall probably see what happens to all the radiated people.

I googled a little bit, and radiation can cause blindness.

It's like eggs getting fried/cooked ?!

How'd you like to go blind ???!!!

I hope the goverments around the planet will put a stop to it... and set
regulations and monitor it too and really act up if levels are exceeded ?!

I can hope can't I ?

Bye,
Skybuck =D *

 

[Skybuck Flying]

So does too much self-pleasuring while looking at Internet porn.



OK, not really...

But it might cause hair to grow on your palms!


I'm planning to have my brain uploaded to that super-high-end computer
system you're working on so that I'll become immortal...

I'll need a lot of time for that to try and build it ! =D

First I need good pascal compilers to be able to program parallel hardware
otherwise there is no way that it's ever going to happen.

I dont like C because it's too buggy... You don't want your brain to become
buggy do you ? =)

I try to life savely and don't do stupid things like die in a car crash or
plane crash... those things I can control by not stepping into a car and not
stepping into a plane... and hoping that a plane don't hit my building

However I have no control over "radiation" from wireless networks and cell
phones and laptops and tablets entering my home and going through my body...
at least for now there is no control over... so in other words... I can't
help it if other people do stupid things which shorten my life...

Therefore this scares me a little bit... if my life is shortened that way...
then guess what... no super computer for you ! =D

Personally I would place my bets/hopes on IBM actually succeeding at it...

But you right... in case IBM don't succeed I should give it a try... just
for kicks too ! =D

Then again so many other fun things to program... don't know if I will ever
get to completing it ! =D

I don't fear death really... death is nice and pleasent... then I get some
eternal rest ! =D

Though I'm still to young to die now or any time soon, then I would feel
cheated right... other people get to life a while... so should I ! =D

Though living for millions of years also sounds quite nice Think of the
knowledge and skills and work that one could accomplish ! and see the future
and knowledges and skills and work of others... perhaps even aliens ! =D

Um, there already are plenty of regulations regarding acceptable EM levels
for pretty much everything from DC to daylight.

Writing them down in laws is one thing but actually checking up on it is a
second thing... and then actually punishing violators or doing something
about it is a third thing... Are you sure all three things are happening ?

But certainly these can be adjusted as new research comes to light.

Hmm I am not so sure about that... how would you like it if they suddenly
said: no more 110 volts for you... no more 220 volts for you... you must now
use 10 volts...

You'd be like: "Hey you can't do that ?!" But ofcourse they could

Bye,
Skybuck =D

P.S.: And now I go back to reading more stuff about all kinds of technical
stuff yes ! =D