What caused the Solar Panel Shortage?

[Windsun]

Not to mention that prices have gone up 15-20%...

1. "Green" subsidies in the US ran up demand long before production was
ready for it.
2. Very high subsidies for solar in Europe have caused manufacturers to sell
there for more money.

These two factors are the main ones and account for probably 90% of the
shortage and price increases.

For years, the "solar at any cost" folks have been telling us that the
government should subsidize solar. Well, they got their wish.

 

[Gymmy Bob]

There should be subsidies for solar panels but control of prices to boot.

 

[Windsun]

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There should be subsidies for solar panels but control of prices to boot.

That has got to be the dumbest thing I have heard yet.

OK, so who exactly is going to control prices?

And HOW do you control prices? Name ONE single instance of anytime in
history that price controls have worked.

And why should there be subsidies? Do you know what a subsidy is? It is
taking from from person that perhaps cannot use solar panels to give another
person money to buy solar panels far below the market price. So person A
that cannot use them is giving person B money to buy panels that will only
benefit person B. Helluva deal for person B, but for person A (which is 99%
of us) it sucks.

 

[Windsun]

Yeah.. Let everyone else pay....

Anytime someone brings up the idea that subsidies are good, just point them
at the fiasco that the dairy industry is. IMO subsidies for anything are a
bad idea, no matter how green you might think it is.

http://www.ewg.org/farm

 

[John Beardmore]

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That has got to be the dumbest thing I have heard yet.

OK, so who exactly is going to control prices?

A tendering process to sell into government schemes seem to be the
European approach.

And HOW do you control prices? Name ONE single instance of anytime in
history that price controls have worked.

Well, the NEP sungain scheme here in the UK has fixed the price of solar
thermal installations at a low level by getting suppliers and installers
to tender their prices to the NEP while the NEP administers the scheme
and grant application process.

And why should there be subsidies? Do you know what a subsidy is? It is
taking from from person that perhaps cannot use solar panels to give another
person money to buy solar panels far below the market price.

12% below in this particular instance. But what price global
commons ?

So person A
that cannot use them is giving person B money to buy panels that will only
benefit person B. Helluva deal for person B, but for person A (which is 99%
of us) it sucks.

Do you know what a global common is ?

Do you know who pays (in this case anyway) the other 88% ?

Seems you may not know much as you don't know "ONE single instance of
anytime in history that price controls have worked". Too bad...


J/.

 

[George Ghio]

Anytime someone brings up the idea that subsidies are good, just point them
at the fiasco that the dairy industry is. IMO subsidies for anything are a
bad idea, no matter how green you might think it is.

http://www.ewg.org/farm

Windsun, The American farmers friend.

 

[Windsun]

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A tendering process to sell into government schemes seem to be the
European approach.



Well, the NEP sungain scheme here in the UK has fixed the price of solar
thermal installations at a low level by getting suppliers and installers
to tender their prices to the NEP while the NEP administers the scheme and
grant application process.

That is NOT price controls. It is basically a bidding process. It has NOT
fixed the prices, nor was it intended to do that. If you read this, you will
see that it's main intent is to see that systems meet certain standards and
has little or nothing to do with pricing:

http://www.greenenergy.org.uk/sta/solarenergy/documents/UKSolarMarket.pdf

 

[Windsun]

The American farmer is a myth. 80% of all dairy subsidies go to large
corporations.

 

[Robert Morien]

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That has got to be the dumbest thing I have heard yet.

OK, so who exactly is going to control prices?

And HOW do you control prices? Name ONE single instance of anytime in
history that price controls have worked.

Back when PG&E was regulated, it seemed much calmer and predicatable.

And why should there be subsidies? Do you know what a subsidy is? It is
taking from from person that perhaps cannot use solar panels to give another
person money to buy solar panels far below the market price. So person A
that cannot use them is giving person B money to buy panels that will only
benefit person B. Helluva deal for person B, but for person A (which is 99%
of us) it sucks.

Or it's like taking money from people who smoke to pay for the health
care of others who don't. The ones who don't smoke get double benefits.

Or maybe it's like diamond lanes for those commuters who have passengers.

Or maybe it's like the subsidies the airlines (or even cars) receive but
bicyclists don't.

 

[George Ghio]

The American farmer is a myth. 80% of all dairy subsidies go to large
corporations.

I think you will find that what you are talking about is what we call
"Collins Street Farmers". Corporate owened farms.

As long as people get paid for not growing something then you voted for
the wrong person.

Get over it.

The reason for the "Shortage" of panels is that everybody is waiting for
some one else to do the development of new technologies in solar.

This won't last long because China is developing their own Silicon
technology and when they get into full production they will flood the
market just as they have with tools, clothing etc.

 

[Gymmy Bob]

WTF do you think this NG is doing here?

It's mainly because the governments decided not to control the prices of
energy. Don't tell me it doesn't work. It has worked since the beginning of
governments. Poor argument.

 

[John Beardmore]

In message <[email protected]>,

And why should there be subsidies? Do you know what a subsidy is? It is
taking from from person that perhaps cannot use solar panels to give another
person money to buy solar panels far below the market price.

Granted there are some people who can't use solar.

There are far more that won't.

So person A
that cannot use them is giving person B money to buy panels that will only
benefit person B. Helluva deal for person B, but for person A (which is 99%
of us) it sucks.

So get off your bum, use solar, get grants. That's the idea of using a
financial instrument to generate an incentive. You may not like it, and
in many ways I don't like it, but it seems to have some track record of
success. If nothing else, it sends a powerful indicator of what the
'powers that be' want to be seen to approve of.


J/.

 

[US]

Maybe we should all keep in mind the willingness of US companies to sell to
places like Germany & France while ignoring the home market, when it comes
time for us to buy.

 

[Windsun]

Back when PG&E was regulated, it seemed much calmer and predicatable.

And that is what forced it into bankruptcy. Worked quite well, as then the
politicians panicked, and did a partial de regulation, which led to the next
fiasco.

 

[Windsun]

Maybe we should all keep in mind the willingness of US companies to sell

to
places like Germany & France while ignoring the home market, when it comes
time for us to buy.

If you can get $3 a watt in the US, and $4 a watt in Germany, where would
you sell? And BTW, less than 20% of PV production is in the US.

 

[Windsun]

As long as people get paid for not growing something then you voted for

the wrong person.

Get over it.

I found it impossible to vote for the RIGHT person, since both the Repub and
Demo candidate were in support of the farmers subsidies. I am sure those
millions in soft money had no influence.

 

[George Ghio]

As long as people get paid for not growing something then you voted for
the wrong person.

Get over it.

I found it impossible to vote for the RIGHT person, since both the Repub and
Demo candidate were in support of the farmers subsidies. I am sure those
millions in soft money had no influence.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah it's no different here. Vote for a politictan.

 

[Landline]

George when you going to nominate?

 

[Bill Kaszeta / Photovoltaic Resources]

If you can get $3 a watt in the US, and $4 a watt in Germany, where would
you sell? And BTW, less than 20% of PV production is in the US.

And a large percentage of US PV production is controlled by foreign
companies such as Shell Oil, Kyocera, Sharp and BP. As the dollar
sinks in relative value due to deficit spending, the non-US markets
will be even more profitable for US factories. I do not think we in the
US have seen the end of increasing PV prices.
Bill Kaszeta
Photovoltaic Resources Int'l
Tempe Arizona USA
[email protected]

 

[Gymmie Bob]

He always nominates in private.

George when you going to nominate?