Vector 3,000 watt power inverter question

[Mike]

Hi Mike...

Respectfully suggest that you might perhaps re-think your project...
if you're looking for heat, even a fully charged new(ish) car battery
is only going to deliver 1500 watts of heat for about a half hour, and
that assuming that the inverter is somehow 100% efficient.
Even then - don't know where in the world you are, but I'm in Winnipeg
(sometimes called Winterpeg), Canada, and 1500 watts of heat is just
teasing. I'm not sure, but I might also be concerned about off-gassing
from the battery at that kind of load.

There are alternatives available - propane catalytic heaters or kerosene
space heaters, with plenty of ventilation and safety barriers to protect
youngsters work quite well, and the energy concentration of the source
is much more dense than a lead acid battery. You might also consider
putting in a wood burning fireplace, if you also enjoy the aesthetics
and don't mind a little work.

You surely don't need the fridge; if it's cold enough to require much
heat, it's also cold enough on a porch or in a garage to store your
perishables. And you can do without the microwave, if the outage is
long enough, you can (again, do it safely) use a camp stove burning
propane or white gas. Another idea - if you have a baby or toddlers
who need quick and often access to milk or formula, you might
consider one of the peltier effect (Koolatron) 12 volt coolers.
Mine draws about 4 amps at 12 volts. A side benefit is you can
use it in your car for trips for soft drinks, sandwich makings, etc.

What you might like your idea for is a bit of lighting if you need it,
but a 9 watt florescent (equal to 40 watt regular bulb) will run
a long long time on a small inverter. Plug a small inverter into
your cigarette lighter, and run a temporary extension cord outside.

Take care.

Ken

I wonder how many 9 watt fluorescent bulbs I can power up with a 3000 watt
generator? ha The place might be aglow when all of my neighbor's power is
off.

Thanks for the ideas. I will check into a 9 watt fluorescent light as I
don't have anything other than incandescent bulbs around here. Might be a
good plan to have some around.

I had considered some of the "ventless" propane heat options, but again,
getting a gas line through the brick doesn't sound like much fun.

We have a fireplace with an insert, but the instructions for that say not to
build a fire without the blower motor running. It has probably been about
15 years since we had a fire in the insert. Wasn't too impressed with the
way that works.

We are in Missouri and what prompted me to come up with this plan was a
recent power outage of about 26 hours as a result of an ice storm. I think
it was around 15-20 degrees over night. We put on some insulated coveralls
and some gloves and made it just fine, but it made me think, if we had to go
for a few days that way some home made electricity would sure be nice.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[T Shadow]

??? Because they ran them indoors? Or... ???

The last one had it in an attached garage with the door open. IIRC the other
incident the generator was right outside the house. Take carbon monoxide
from a generator very seriously.

 

[T Shadow]

Run the blower at the lowest speed on inverter power. Let the burner cycle
on the hi limit - you'll still get enough heat. That will reduce the blower
motor power to maybe 200W.

Thought of that to increase run time but don't think it changes starting
requirements

 

[James Sweet]

I am using the input cables that Vector provided with the inverter. I think
I read in the manual that they are #4 awg and there are two positive and two
negative cables. I didn't measure them but they are 3 feet in length or
less.

What I was hoping to accomplish with this was to be able to run a 1500 watt
electric heater when our electricity goes off. (I thought a 1500 watt
heater would just sit there and coast on a 3000 watt inverter). I'd also
planned to use a microwave oven, a toaster oven, some 60-75 watt lights, but
I didn't intend to run more than one or two of these items at a time, and
obviously had planned to run the toaster by itself and the microwave and the
heater. I didn't realize I was going to have to have so much input current
available to power the inverter. Kind of foils my plan because I had hoped
to put a battery in a nice case, put that on the bottom of a two wheel
dolly, mount the inverter to a piece of plywood and mount that to the dolly,
wire it up and then have a set up I could wheel into the living room when
the power goes out and plug in the heat or some lights, the tv, or whatever
I needed. I was hoping someone who has such a set up would see my post and
offer some suggestions on what worked for them. It appears I should have
gone the route of the generator, but I opted not to do that because of the
carbon monoxide and also routing a power cable from outside my house to the
interior won't be easy (all brick home).

I like the idea of powering the furnace motor with a setup like this, but I
have a heat pump so unfortunately, that isn't an option for me.

Thanks for your input.

Watts are watts, and to get 3KW out, you have to put a bit more than 3KW
in. 3KW at 12V is 10 times as many amps as it is at 120V so to estimate
the current required at the input you can multiply the current rating of
the 120V device by 10 and come out pretty close.

Heating with electric resistance running from an inverter is not very
feasible. You'd be better off to use one of those forced air kerosene
heaters and run that from the inverter. The combustion is a MUCH more
efficient way to heat, just make sure you have some ventilation.

What I did on the last power outage is use an inverter to run lamps and
small appliances at night, then during the day a generator to run the
heavier loads and charge a deep cycle marine battery I had the inverter
on. It worked well, but the generator is borrowed so I plan to hack
together one of my own using an old lawnmower engine I have and a car
alternator which will run the inverter and charge the battery. I tried
running the furnace off the battery and got about 40 minutes out of a
fully charged deep cycle so that isn't really practical. I could have
maybe run the heat pump from the generator but it would have been
pushing it so I just stuck with the backup furnace.

Can't you run an extension cord in under a door or through a window?
Also if you have an exterior receptacle you can backfeed through that,
just make absolutely sure you shut off the main first and don't try that
unless you know what you're doing or you can cause some real trouble.
You can also drill a hole through brick for a conduit and put a plug
outside that connects to a generator transfer switch by the panel.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

blower motor power to maybe 200W.
Thought of that to increase run time but don't think it changes starting
requirements

Should do - it puts a choke in series with the motor. With a centrifugal fan
the load is light at start-up - you could even add series resistance and cut
it out once the fan is running.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

What I was hoping to accomplish with this was to be able to run a 1500
watt
electric heater when our electricity goes off. (I thought a 1500 watt
heater would just sit there and coast on a 3000 watt inverter).

Pointless. Build a 12 volt heater. But the batteries will be humungous.

If I bought one, I would run the fridges and the furnace motor only; and
maybe a CFL light or radio.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

I had considered some of the "ventless" propane heat options, but again,
getting a gas line through the brick doesn't sound like much fun.

You can get units that run off bottled gas. I keep a small camping unit to
cook and heat food in a power outage.

 

[James Sweet]

Thanks for the ideas. I will check into a 9 watt fluorescent light as I
don't have anything other than incandescent bulbs around here. Might be a
good plan to have some around.

Good old incandescent bulb is obsolete. CFLs have matured and are
available in wattages from 5 to over 100W and are far more efficient
than incandescent. Pick some up at your local hardware store and try
them out.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

What I was hoping to accomplish with this was to be able to run a 1500
watt electric heater when our electricity goes off.

Why an electric heater? Far easier/better to use a Calor gas etc heater
designed for flueless indoor use.

(I thought a 1500
watt heater would just sit there and coast on a 3000 watt inverter).
I'd also planned to use a microwave oven, a toaster oven, some 60-75
watt lights, but I didn't intend to run more than one or two of these
items at a time, and obviously had planned to run the toaster by itself
and the microwave and the heater. I didn't realize I was going to have
to have so much input current available to power the inverter.

Do the sums. The average large car battery has a capacity of 70 amp/hours
and watts are volts x amps so that is approx 840 watt/hours. But you have
to reduce this considerably at high current drains.

Kind of foils my plan because I had hoped to put a battery in a nice
case, put that on the bottom of a two wheel dolly, mount the inverter to
a piece of plywood and mount that to the dolly, wire it up and then have
a set up I could wheel into the living room when the power goes out and
plug in the heat or some lights, the tv, or whatever I needed. I was
hoping someone who has such a set up would see my post and offer some
suggestions on what worked for them. It appears I should have gone the
route of the generator, but I opted not to do that because of the carbon
monoxide and also routing a power cable from outside my house to the
interior won't be easy (all brick home).

I can use a car battery via an 300 watt invertor to run my gas 'wet'
central heating system in the UK - its peak load requirement is only about
150 watts when a valve operates and about 50 with the pump running.

Best guide on emergency heating and cooking etc is to see how the motor
homes do it.

 

[M Berger]

You need very hefty power leads to connect it to the battery.
What did you use?

I'll also bet that the Vector unit is good for a lot less than
3000 watts continuous.

 

[M Berger]

You don't have to run your generator inside you know.

 

[M Berger]

The output is way too unstable for a UPS. Big telecom
installations power everything with DC.

 

[T Shadow]

You don't have to run your generator inside you know.

In his post he used a car battery. Cars are kept in garages. See my other
reply about carbon monoxide.

 

[JR North]

If you have anything more than a couple lamps to run, a genny is the way
to go. During the Big Blow in Seattle a couple weeks ago, my power was
down for 4 days. I have a 5500 watt 10HP genny, wired to a transfer
switch on the 240 main bus. I had enough power to start and run the
furnace blower (1 HP), several lights including outside, TV, fridge, 1
KW microwave and even 1500 watt deep fat fryer. Not ALL high draw items
at the same time. With an adequate genny, all you have to do is keep it
fueled. No messing with power cables, dangerously high currents,
extension cords, inability to start high draw induction loads or
hydrogen from charging the batteries, etc. With most consumers on, I
measured 114V in the house system. The TV didn't mind the dirty power at
all. We were snug and warm, while most of my neighbors were freezing in
the glare of battery powered florescent camping lanterns.
JR

 

[JR North]

In addition to my other post, for cooking during a power failure I use this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43343
along with a 30# propane bottle and regulator. This will run an
amazingly long time on that. This unit is WAY better than the usual
Coleman camping stove setup. CO warnings apply.
JR

 

[James Sweet]

The output is way too unstable for a UPS. Big telecom
installations power everything with DC.

My ancient Tripp-Lite 1200W UPS works just fine off a generator, I hear
a lot of newer ones don't though.

 

[James Sweet]

In his post he used a car battery. Cars are kept in garages. See my other
reply about carbon monoxide.

If I could get even one of my cars into my garage I'd be a happy guy.
For the time being though they sit in the driveway, as do the cars of
most people I know.

 

[James Sweet]

If you have anything more than a couple lamps to run, a genny is the way
to go. During the Big Blow in Seattle a couple weeks ago, my power was
down for 4 days. I have a 5500 watt 10HP genny, wired to a transfer
switch on the 240 main bus. I had enough power to start and run the
furnace blower (1 HP), several lights including outside, TV, fridge, 1
KW microwave and even 1500 watt deep fat fryer. Not ALL high draw items
at the same time. With an adequate genny, all you have to do is keep it
fueled. No messing with power cables, dangerously high currents,
extension cords, inability to start high draw induction loads or
hydrogen from charging the batteries, etc. With most consumers on, I
measured 114V in the house system. The TV didn't mind the dirty power at
all. We were snug and warm, while most of my neighbors were freezing in
the glare of battery powered florescent camping lanterns.
JR

Agreed, though I used an inverter at night in that same storm. Some
A-hole down the street ran his generator 24 hours a day, I bet he'd love
it if I mowed my lawn at 3am this spring.

 

[Malissa Baldwin]

Agreed, though I used an inverter at night in that same storm. Some
A-hole down the street ran his generator 24 hours a day, I bet he'd love
it if I mowed my lawn at 3am this spring.

You don't have to wait, just put in one of your gay porn dvds and turn
the volume all the way up and start jerking off on his lawn.

 

[Malissa Baldwin]

You don't have to run your generator inside you know.

It's much more convenient if you do so.