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Using Earth's magnetic field to generate electricity.

R

R.D. Heilman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Anyone know anything about N. Tesla's experiments using
the earth's magnetic lines of force to generate electric power?

RD
 
T

Tom The Great

Jan 1, 1970
0
Anyone know anything about N. Tesla's experiments using
the earth's magnetic lines of force to generate electric power?

RD


I believe NASA has used this in experiments, but dropped it since it
actually causes the Shuttle to loose forward energy. "The Space
Tether Experiment?"

hth,

tom @ www.FreelancingProjects.com
 
R

R.D. Heilman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tom The Great said:
I believe NASA has used this in experiments, but dropped it since it
actually causes the Shuttle to loose forward energy. "The Space
Tether Experiment?"
I visited a museum in Serbia some twenty years ago & I remember seeing
a section on Tesla's experiments. Evidently the US had turned over Tesla's
papers to that government. I remember illustrations depicting
his experiments where he had stretched miles of copper wire across the
desert in New Mexico(?) intersecting the earth's force fields at the 90deg.
angle as required. But he was "run out of town" before he was able to
complete his experiment. However, the curator believed he had succeeded
to a limited degree.
 
D

Don Kelly

Jan 1, 1970
0
----------------------------
R.D. Heilman said:
I visited a museum in Serbia some twenty years ago & I remember seeing
a section on Tesla's experiments. Evidently the US had turned over Tesla's
papers to that government. I remember illustrations depicting
his experiments where he had stretched miles of copper wire across the
desert in New Mexico(?) intersecting the earth's force fields at the
90deg.
angle as required. But he was "run out of town" before he was able to
complete his experiment. However, the curator believed he had succeeded
to a limited degree.
 
T

Tom The Great

Jan 1, 1970
0


Very true, I don't know how a stationary coil would cut enough lines
of flux to generate enough energy to make it worth the time/money.

later,

tom @ www.NoCostAds.com
 
T

Tom The Great

Jan 1, 1970
0
If I remember correctly, what Tesla had proposed was a concept of
biulding massive power generation stations that would "pump"
electrical energy into the earth like a giant tank circuit, so the
earth's magnetic field would fluctuate on it's own. Then all you would
need would be a wire or coil in the correct relative orientation and
you could tap off power anywhere.

The flaw in his thinking was that someone would need to generate the
power and "pump" it into the earth, but there was no way for them to
generate revenue from the users to pay for it. Minor detail to Tesla,
major detail to his backers.

Over the years this concept morphed into "free" energy from Earth's
magnetic field. It was never free, only the harvesting of it was.


Ohhhhhh.......

I remember something in school, a long time ago, about Telsa
researching tranmitting power, througth the air. That sounded crazy,
even with knowing about microwave energy. But this induce fluxuating
Magnetic sphere, might have sold a few news articles.

Good stuff.

tom
 
D

Don Kelly

Jan 1, 1970
0
Pixmaker said:
A few days ago, I stopped beside the highway to talk with the foreman of a
line crew that was
stringing a new, 240-KVolt transmission line on 80-foot concrete towers.
I noticed that the three
transmission cables (not yet energized) were tied togetherand grounded
with what looked like
humongous clip leads. I thought this was a routine safety measure to avoid
injury if a new cable
might accidently fall onto the pre-existing, 130-KVolt lines.

The foreman explained that, with 3-5 miles of continuous cable swaying in
the wind (the supports
were about 600 feet, or more apart) there was significant danger from
voltages generated by the
cables' motion within the earth's magnetic field. In fact, he said, men
have been killed when these
new cables are not grounded.

I can understand that a few miles of high-line is a really serious antenna
but didn't think that a
one-turn (or half a turn) coil could generate any real energy. It seems to
me that the wind motion
would cause a polarity reversal with each reversal of cable direction thus
cancelling any serious
generation. Also, there's a good probability that different catenary spans
would move in
out-of-phase ways, with further cancelling effects.

Then there's the possibility of inductive coupling with existing
high-voltage cabling parrallel to
the new lines. Now that, I think, could pick up some significant energy!
And what about lightning
in the area?. I would guess there could be some serious voltage pulses
generated, especially here in
"lightning alley, USA." (South Florida.)

Funny how my brain works. . . (funny peculiar, not funny ha ha.) I wonder
if it is possible, within
reason, to build a pickup coil big enough to string in your back yard and
(if you lived beside one
of those easements containing a dozen or so transmission lines at about
250,000 Volts) pick up
enough energy to provide power for lighting, etc.

I live in a condo quite a long distance from any high lines so my
experimental urges must remain
frustrated. But I think it's a kinda fun idea! I'm many decades removed
from my courses in
electromagnetic induction so the local utility is safe from my poaching.

Has anyone any practical experience with this matter? Or was that old guy
running that crew just
having a little fun with me? What do you think?

Pixmaker in FLL
===========================
It's not the heat, it's the humidity!
===========================
(Think the humidity's bad?
You should watch us vote!)
===========================

I suggest that the foreman doesn't know what he is talking about, or, more
likely is having a bit of fun with you. First of all, the voltage that can
be induced from one end of the line to the other (not to ground) depends not
only on the length of conductor but also on the strength of the magnetic
field component which is perpendicular to the motion and the line -as well
as the velocity of movement- the latter two are negligable. The fact that
polarity reversed means nothing except that the miniscule signal which
might be generated would be AC. Your comment about different sections being
out of phase is on target.


Two factors do exist.

a) the pre-existing lines and inductive coupling to these lines can result
in lethal voltages induced. One ground point is fine, but when somebody
makes a second ground point, there is a problem. The procedure you mention
is common when work is done on a "dead" line in the vicinity of live ones.

b) ungrounded lines, just floating, even when not near any others, can pick
up static charges from charged clouds moving about. No problem unless you
are the path to ground.

Oh yes, one can get an inductive coupling to a transmission line,
preferrably a single phase rural line (polyphase lines tend to cancel their
fields) and with a large enough loop closed at a far enough distance from
the line, run a light bulb. However the output voltage isn't constant,
and,depending on line current, you may have a dim bulb (say less than 50V)
or have a problem with a bulb blowing up and the socket flashing over (at,
say 1000V+), Of course if you escape being killed, you can end up in court
with a charge of theft. Cheaper, safer and more reliable to simply connect
to the grid legally.
 
B

Bob Ferapples

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ohhhhhh.......

I remember something in school, a long time ago, about Telsa
researching tranmitting power, througth the air. That sounded crazy,
even with knowing about microwave energy. But this induce fluxuating
Magnetic sphere, might have sold a few news articles.

Good stuff.

tom

Tesla did in fact work very dilligently on that, building a massive
(for the time) structiure called the Wycliff Tower in New Jersey. His
idea was to transmitt power eventually to a duplicate tower in Europe.
This came after his idea on the electricity transmission through the
earth's magnetic field, partly because of the pressure he got to make
something commercially profitable. He never finished it though, his
backers pulled out before it could be proven. As it turns out, Tesla
had grossly miscalculated the amount of energy that could be
transmitted that way, and of course he never concerned himself with
side effects.

A side result of his experiments is what eventually lead to radio wave
transmission, from which Marconi benefitted. Tesla sued him over the
rights to claim the invention of the wireless transmitter, and won
eventually, but the fact reamins that in Tesla's case it was somewhat
accidental, Marconi actually set out specifically to transmit signals
like a telegraph.
 
B

Bud--

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bob said:
Tesla did in fact work very dilligently on that, building a massive
(for the time) structiure called the Wycliff Tower in New Jersey. His
idea was to transmitt power eventually to a duplicate tower in Europe.
This came after his idea on the electricity transmission through the
earth's magnetic field, partly because of the pressure he got to make
something commercially profitable. He never finished it though, his
backers pulled out before it could be proven. As it turns out, Tesla
had grossly miscalculated the amount of energy that could be
transmitted that way, and of course he never concerned himself with
side effects.

A side result of his experiments is what eventually lead to radio wave
transmission, from which Marconi benefitted. Tesla sued him over the
rights to claim the invention of the wireless transmitter, and won
eventually, but the fact reamins that in Tesla's case it was somewhat
accidental, Marconi actually set out specifically to transmit signals
like a telegraph.

It was Wardenclyffe, not that that matters.

Long before the tower he demonstrated a model submarine remotely
controlled by radio, a sensation at the time. My impression is that the
patents included using resonant circuits to permit multiple chanel
communication. I think the final patent battle was Marconi against the
US government, and the US used Tesla's patents to defeat Marconi.

Interesting person, in both positive and negative ways. When I was in
school all I heard about was the Tesla coil, but he had all the basic
patents on AC motors and a lot of other AC apparatus.

bud--
 
T

Tom The Great

Jan 1, 1970
0
It was Wardenclyffe, not that that matters.

Long before the tower he demonstrated a model submarine remotely
controlled by radio, a sensation at the time. My impression is that the
patents included using resonant circuits to permit multiple chanel
communication. I think the final patent battle was Marconi against the
US government, and the US used Tesla's patents to defeat Marconi.

Interesting person, in both positive and negative ways. When I was in
school all I heard about was the Tesla coil, but he had all the basic
patents on AC motors and a lot of other AC apparatus.

bud--


One thing that impressed me about Telsa, he didn't like T. Edison. I
was originally impressed with him, and glad to meet him, but later
dispised him. It seems that in a conversation, Edison mentioned that
he had some electrical differculties with power generation, and would
give a large sum of money to the person who found the solution. Telsa,
worked on the problems, and gave them to Edison. Edison was greatful,
and gave no money, he told Telsa he should learn to understand
American humor.

For us, good thing they had a falling out. If Telsa became another
cronnie of Edison, his creative personality might have been hindered.

later,

tom @ www.NoCostAds.com
 
D

Don Kelly

Jan 1, 1970
0
----------------------------
Tom The Great said:
One thing that impressed me about Telsa, he didn't like T. Edison. I
was originally impressed with him, and glad to meet him, but later
dispised him. It seems that in a conversation, Edison mentioned that
he had some electrical differculties with power generation, and would
give a large sum of money to the person who found the solution. Telsa,
worked on the problems, and gave them to Edison. Edison was greatful,
and gave no money, he told Telsa he should learn to understand
American humor.

For us, good thing they had a falling out. If Telsa became another
cronnie of Edison, his creative personality might have been hindered.

later,

tom @ www.NoCostAds.com

Tesla breakthroughs- the induction machine and polyphase AC were not given
to Edison. Edison was fully wrapped up with his DC systems. Westinghouse got
the benefit of Tesla's work at a royalty of $1 per KW and he gave this up
when Westinghouse was in difficulty. Edison fought tooth and nail against
AC, and managed to convince the NY state penal authority that AC was more
lethal and shoould be used for the first electric chair. So goes the story.
 
T

Tom The Great

Jan 1, 1970
0
----------------------------


Tesla breakthroughs- the induction machine and polyphase AC were not given
to Edison. Edison was fully wrapped up with his DC systems. Westinghouse got
the benefit of Tesla's work at a royalty of $1 per KW and he gave this up
when Westinghouse was in difficulty. Edison fought tooth and nail against
AC, and managed to convince the NY state penal authority that AC was more
lethal and shoould be used for the first electric chair. So goes the story.


Imagine if DC got more entrenched if Telsa went to work for Edison? I
only have documentries to go on since I'm not that old, but Edison was
a tyrant to his workers.

Edison got beat up early in life for getting zero bucks for his
inventions, and then got 'refocused' into a meaner person over time.

:(

tom
 
K

krw

Jan 1, 1970
0
----------------------------


Tesla breakthroughs- the induction machine and polyphase AC were not given
to Edison. Edison was fully wrapped up with his DC systems. Westinghouse got
the benefit of Tesla's work at a royalty of $1 per KW and he gave this up
when Westinghouse was in difficulty.
Edison fought tooth and nail against
AC, and managed to convince the NY state penal authority that AC was more
lethal and shoould be used for the first electric chair. So goes the story.
I thought it was the opposite; NYS chose AC since it was more
lethal and Edison said, "See!".
 
B

Bud--

Jan 1, 1970
0
krw said:
I thought it was the opposite; NYS chose AC since it was more
lethal and Edison said, "See!".

Edison made his lab available to test electrocution of dogs and other
assorted animals including horses. I think it has been shown the major
proponent of AC for electrocution was paid, at least in part, by Edison.
The first actual electrocution of a person was horribly botched.

The 1st major success for AC was the 1893 Chicago World's Fair/Columbian
Exposition. Westinghouse won the contract for major electrical using
Tesla's AC system. It was a marvel - electric lights everywhere.
Westinghouse had to invent a new relatively short life light bulb to
avoid Edison's patents.

The real major success, of course, was AC generation at Niagra Falls
with high voltage transmission to Buffalo NY.

Tesla said something to the effect of if Edison had a base in science
knowledge he could have found a successful light bulb filament material
a lot faster.

A lot of Tesla's later ideas were somewhat bizarre. It would be nice to
see a good scientific analysis of them (like Wardenclyffe and earth
resonance). Some of them have been picked up by pseudoscience nuts.
Substantially lost to history and engineering are Tesla's base patents
for AC and radio.

bud--
 
J

J. B. Wood

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello, all, and I just thought I would jump in here since I am employed by
an activity that considers Edison a founding father. Edison's preference
for a system of D.C. power generation and distribution is a matter of
record and has already been discuseed in this thread. What we should
remember is that Edison was an inventor that did not concentrate solely on
power generation and distribution apparatus (even though many of his
inventions required electric power). Tesla, OTOH and Westinghouse were
specifically interested in this technology and Tesla in particular could
be considered as much an electrical engineer as an inventor. Tesla's
explanation of electromagnetic wave propagation, however, would indicate
that he did not appreciate/comprehend the work of J.C. Maxwell.

In the realm of electrical metrics named for experimentalists and
inventors Edison has been ignored. Ditto for Benjamin Franklin. In the
international system (SI) of units the "Tesla" is used for magnetic flux
density and we also have the "bel" (after A.G. Bell) to denote power
ratio. Sincerely,

John Wood (Code 5550) e-mail: [email protected]
Naval Research Laboratory
4555 Overlook Avenue, SW
Washington, DC 20375-5337
 
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