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Using the Earth as a battery

Discussion in 'Electronic Basics' started by Hindian, Jan 10, 2005.

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  1. Hindian

    Hindian Guest

    Since the earth stores billions of electrons, is there any way the
    earth could be used as a usable battery? I guess its not a good
    conductor but has any method been devised to make it a good conductor?

    What about the ionosphere. Lots of charged particles there. If there
    was some way to tap into the ionosphere, would that mean free flow of
    electricity to the earth?

    Just thinking out loud.
     
  2. Sam Wormley

    Sam Wormley Guest

    How many electrons do you think there are in a grain of sand?
    What's your definition of battery?
     
  3. peter

    peter Guest

    Hello,
    The system earth-ionosphere is not a battery but rather like a
    condenser. The electrical field strength is in normal times
    approximately 100 to 150 V/m.
    Thats great, would you say. Alas, the dielectric is to performing, too
    good an insulator, and all you can expect is a columnal current of about
    20pA/m^2.
    By the way, the isea is not new and others have been disappointed...
    Peter
     
  4. Hindian

    Hindian Guest


    I'm sure there are many. But I'm talking about free electons. As in
    electrons not bound to atoms. When lightning discharges to ground,
    where do all the electrons go.

    Does not the earth carry a charge of some sort, why can't we use this
    charge?
     
  5. Uncle Al

    Uncle Al Guest

    Hey schmuck - 96,500 Coulombs/mole electrons near enough. "billions
    of electrons" HA HA HA!

    Not a one. The entire planet is electrically neutral. Make a gold
    leaf electormeter. Nothing.

    < is there any way the
    [snip crap]

    A battery is a set of two or more electrochemical cells. What is the
    other planet, idiot?
     
  6. Sam Wormley

    Sam Wormley Guest

    The Earth is electrically neutral.... remove electrons from atom (as
    in a thunder cloud) and they jump back (as in lightning). The energy to
    drive thunderstorms come from the sun.
     
  7. peter

    peter Guest

    I admit, Iwas a bit puzzled by this abusively rude answer, seemingly to
    my response. Could you couple yourself in the future to the message you
    are commenting this vehemently? Still better, moderate your excessive prose!
    peter
     
  8. Hindian

    Hindian Guest

    I understand free electrons do not remain free for long. But does it
    mean there are no electrons free in the earth.

    In one of Tesla's experiments, he was trying to transmit electicity
    through the earth by simulating a lightning strike. Or so i
    understand. I know he didn't succeed (or did he?)

    Now if the earth neutralises charges so well/quickly, was that
    experiment doomed to failure from the start.
     
  9. Sam Wormley

    Sam Wormley Guest

    You should ask yourself where do free electrons come from?
    You should do a search and find out what Tesla was doing.
     
  10. Hindian

    Hindian Guest

    Hi peter,

    The US has a project called HAARP which charges up the ionosphere to
    study it for communication & defence applications. If they find ways
    of overcoming the insulative properties of the ionosphere and
    discharging it, perhaps it might be a mass source of power.

    Sadly I don't know enough to comment on how that might be possible.
     
  11. Hindian

    Hindian Guest

    Well this is my last post on the subject. Perhaps I'm
    misunderstanding some basic physics theory.

    Free electrons come from chemical/physical reactions where an electron
    is removed from orbit of an atom. Not sure if that is what you are
    getting at.

    When I rub my shoe on a rug, the shoe can pick up static electricity.
    Enough to give me a shock if I touch a positively charged object. How
    is it possible that tectonic plates of the earth rubbing together so
    vigoursly causing an earth quake can release no electrons. Is there
    no chemical or physical reaction in the earth generating surplus
    electrons.

    Maybe I'm too dense for this branch of physics :-(

    Thanks for your replies. I'll read up more on Tesla.
     
  12. Sam Wormley

    Sam Wormley Guest

    Actually you've got it right.... the point is that atoms are neutral
    unless some process that requires an energy sources removes electrons
    as in your example of shoe on a rug or in a billowing thunder cloud.
    And you are right... it happens all around us...

    Hindian--I don't want to discourage you. You started the thread wanting
    to know if the Earth's free elections could be used as an energy source.
    And I want to impart to you that.

    1. there is no net imbalance of charge on the earth

    2. that energy sources on the earth ultimately derive from the sun
    (with the exception of some heat from radioactivity inside the
    earth)

    3. the Conservation of Energy
    http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/ConservationofEnergy.html

    4. the Laws of Thermodynamics
    http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/CombinedLawofThermodynamics.html
    http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/SecondLawofThermodynamics.html
     
  13. Uncle Al

    Uncle Al Guest

    The vehemence of my response is scaled to the stooopidity of your
    proposal.

    http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/sunshine.jpg

    Don't you have the slightest inkling of a hint that anything "obvious"
    to an untutored layman has already been visited and discarded by
    untold numbers of trained (and desperate - untenured faculty) minds?
     
  14. Sam Wormley

    Sam Wormley Guest

    HAARP is a scientific endeavor aimed at studying the properties and behavior
    of the ionosphere, with particular emphasis on being able to understand and
    use it to enhance communications and surveillance systems for both civilian
    and defense purposes.

    HAARP does *not* in any way *charge* up the ionosphere!

    The energy source that ionizes the upper atmosphere is our sun.
     
  15. Bob Myers

    Bob Myers Guest

    You are thinking of electrons themselves as possessing
    energy, when in fact they do not (ignoring, for a moment,
    the energy represented by their mass). They possess
    CHARGE, but charge is not energy. There is a potential
    energy (which is represented by the electric field) that
    "comes into being" when two charged particles of opposite sign
    are removed from each other's presence (i.e., it takes
    energy to do this, and that energy is "stored" in the form
    of the field between the charged particles), or conversely
    when two particles of the same sign charge are forced
    together.

    The mechanical analog to this is the potential energy
    represented by a mass which has been raised to some
    distance above its original position; there is potential
    energy due to the attractive force of gravity, which can
    then be recovered if the object is permitted to fall. But
    this does not mean that the object itself originally
    "contained energy" (again ignoring the energy represent
    by its mass, courtesy of St. Albert).

    Bob M.
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

  17. Uncle Al

    Uncle Al Guest

    Teenager, eh? Globally bathetic.
     
  18. Jim Black

    Jim Black Guest

    Are you sure that's really a good idea?

    "Thus, it seems that what really happened was that Tesla sent off that
    fireball or EMP burst, which collided with that alien intelligence
    survey spacecraft!"
    http://business.gorge.net/zdkf/kufol/kul-tot.html

    "....They had discovered why Tesla was reluctant to put the magnifying
    transmitter into operation. Not only could it be used to mess up radio
    communication, but also as a global magnetic mind control weapon, and
    to control the forces of nature. And the Russians were using it...."
    http://www.thelivingweb.net/tesla.html

    "in addition, intelligent ufo activity was also being
    reported in indonesia. this is not very surprising
    since both god's angels and satan's angels would
    have a great interest in monitoring the scalar tesla
    hyperdimensional technology progress of the us military."
    http://www.syzygyjob.net/warissues/messages/96384.shtml
     
  19. Sam Wormley

    Sam Wormley Guest

    Good point!
     
  20. Guest


    The magnetic field around earth can and has been used to produce
    electricity by tethers. A HUGE amount can be produced... the drawback
    is that it saps the kinetic energy of the vehicle you're producing
    electricity for. So it's a trade off.

    Dave
     
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