Solar energy for eco village

Dear Solar specialists

First I would like to say that I feel so lucky and happy that I found
this Usenet groups (together with renowable,photovoltaic,thermal..)

Let me introduce a little my self as new alt.energy/solar member (during
writing this letter I wrote more than I though...)

Long... long... time ago I was attending to electrical school, without
any idea to work as electrician (sometimes live goes that way, in Poland
was about to don't go to army. But live drifted me to the beautiful
ecological village, setup me in the center of mountain in Baja
California, with all sorts of wilderness and beauty of the land. The
group of people is preparing to be self sufficient and eco in all
meanings, organic gardens, compost toilets, water heating (another story
and another future question) and this land needs to have electrical
power. So that was obvious that they voted me as person responsible for
this project. Whow... this is great, I never though that I will be
working as electrician but solar system, whow.. that the biggest award I
could get. Because budget is limited and most of management people
doesn't really understand what is going on with those cables,circuits
etc.., they just seeing 000 in USD and trying to have trust (in me this
time).

So first my point of view was that system must be easily upgrade,
because of money limit as well as improvement with construction.
Starting point was to feed 4 one room houses (in Mexico call "casita")
in light and Internet (which I hope, I succeeded). I had distance 100m
(300feet) I used 4 awg to connect those "casitas" on each house
"electrical breaker box", on input I put OUTBACK 3524, two banks of old
trojan t105 and few solar panels in parallel connection on 24V because
controller which we have is SOLAR BOOST 50 and works only on 12 or 24V.
(I know that I have to change for outback controller which I would like
to do asap). Of course my judgment and what to buy and how to install
was based on my knowledge, little on Internet and local solar Eng. help
me (open my eyes) in few aspects.

The system is working, everybody has 15W light and Internet 24/7

But then next step was O.K. but we need freezer in kitchen.

Distance to the kitchen is another 100m, and on the way btw those 4
"casitas" and the kitchen we have area when in the future is going to be
"Meeting area" with courses, classes, and we have to have thare:
a)light;b)soundystem;c)computer system (future video webcasts throug
Internet etc...)

Question was shall we go with separate system for casitas ? and separate
system for teaching area ? and maybe separate system for kitchen ?
one solar Eng calculated for us system for kitchen and we got like 6000
USD with sundanzer freezer and 2solar panels plus batteries. O.K. .. but
where to put those solar panels ?? hmm is dificult to install because it
is outside kitchen with palm leafs roof, we can clear some green but it
won't look nice takes space hmmm... (personally I didn't like this idea).

I've got advice of one Eng. and he said that if the distance is to big
we still should go with central system but run 240V and then use
transformer and change again for 110 and split for kitchen and "teaching
area".

I found Whirpul 9cu freezer for 300 USD with sticker 296KW/year max that
gave me 1KW per day so it give 40W per hour (more/less or I don't
understand something?... of course that freezer is turning off and on
and during on can take more power even 200W and then turn of for 2 hrs
for example, but I was testing and my Outback mate doesn't show that
this freezer takes more than 60W).

So what I did I runned temporary cable (10 AWG) from closest "casita"
connected this freezer and waiting and seeing what is going on. Light
started on, freezer started on and everything works pretty well. But
this is not end of story but beggining.

Now we are in the process to finish another 4 "casitas" and construction
is going to have 21 "casitas" to lodge from 2,4 or like dormitory 8
persons, every casita will have light, Internet, (water also)

Then is going to be in one of this houses library with multimedia and
Internet cafe

And then is going to be "Teaching area" with multimedia soundsystem and
lighting. and Kitchen and "fig tree garden" (which I didn't mention
because of few power usage)

Another thing is that I should thing that when teaching room is working,
is mostly day time and people aren't in their "casitas" but attending
seminar so the same power (which is use for "casitas") can be directed
to "teaching area"

Kitchen should be prepared to have enough power to feed 2 freezers and 2
refreegerators (minimum).

whow.... This took me a little to think about and trying to find
somebody who give me wise advices, that we really do our best and use
the best components not always those most expensive and we will be easly
able to upgrade with every casita standing up, every additional freezer
etc...


Ufff... After advices my own brainstorming and meting with engineers
Finally I've got to the point of two "little" different systems

SYSTEM A - concentrated on main central power
SYSTEM B - few separate blocks of power


SYSTEM A - system is going to be in "electrical house" two power
inventers OUTBACK 3524 separate lines to different blocks and (if is
needed ) 240 line coming to "Teaching area" where is splitting for
"Teaching area" and "kitchen"
two banks of L16(in future uexchanging for more banks), generator to
balance system and keep batteries recharged, solar pannels, as many as
we can afford, and probably wind generators.

SYSTEM B

Separate system for "small houses" which can be smallest "system a"
Separate power for "teaching area"
Separate power for the "kitchen"

********
Personally I am in favor of SYSTEM A, is concentrated in one place. I
like this idea more.
But for me is not important my idea, for me is important which one is
betteror what is the best solution.

SYSTEM B ing explanations

1. Freezer - is explaining that normal 120V freezer takes a lot of power
so is expensive to put solar panels (it needs many solar panels). He is
recommended to go with separate system and 12v freezer and 12 volt
lighting. That way we save usage of power inverter.

My opinion: in central system power inverter will work 24/7 because of
light in each "casita", that people if they need they can use light all
night, so why not bring line from central power station but build
separate kitchen solar installation?

Separate power for "teaching area" this is expensive investment, we have
to know that this system can be in use few weeks in year, depend from
schedule and how many people attends. We don't need sound system for for
20 people, we need only when seminar will have 100 people or more. Each
system needs to have build special electrical house /box to keep
batteries and all expensive controler/inventer system and be save for
others.

Of course when we finish our development and our Teaching area will have
nice "meeting house" we can build additional system for it when will be
more interest and more seminars running.



I am sorry for this long letter, first I was thinking that I will go
small steps and giving question after question but I started writing and
I wrote that all in one.


I will be very happy to clear my mind from doubts
I will very appreciate if you help me to build this, what I need
regarding to recent needs and during each future step of upgrade our land.


Additionally I am adding

Simple draw of electrical system, I am apologize for this chaotic draw

http://www.jardindelosnaranjos.org/temp/solar/casitasplan.jpg

Those casitas which aren't included in red block, means that they are in
development stage
#############

Solar panels we are using:
http://www.jardindelosnaranjos.org/temp/solar/pvs.jpg

We have 3 solar panels Matrix PW 1650 12V -24V, they work parallel
Those are old modules and they were bought for half price because they
were some damage and they didn't give full power, but at this point 3
years ago that was good enough for this place
Additional modul SHARP 200W
all together give 15A on 24V

############

Our heart:
http://www.jardindelosnaranjos.org/temp/solar/pvsystem.JPG

Include
OUTBACK 3524
SOLAR BOOST 50
2 x T105 - old not working almost at all, need change (what to go and
how much, I am thinking to go 2 banks of L16 but I heard that there is
better brand on the market)


Outside look on kitchen ( I don't have good pictures, but I can always
make if is need)
http://www.jardindelosnaranjos.org/temp/solar/kitchen.jpg


look on "casita"
http://www.jardindelosnaranjos.org/temp/solar/casita.jpg


And last think I didn't mention yet is generator

What king of generator I should use ? I know we would like to don't make
any pollution, but looks like for a while until we balance system enough
by solar panels and wind generators we will have to play with diesel
generator. What kind, brand and how many KW generator do you recommend ?


And at the same end. There is for sure very good book about alternative
electrical power (mainly solar and wind) which is kind of "white crow"

Could you recommend one ?


Who get to the end, congratulations !
I really don't like to send long emails on news groups, I hope that you
understand my intention and need of some clarification before we put
another 10.000 or 20.000 USD in our system


Kind regards

Daniel Kuzma