OT: printer cartridge replacement reality

[Robert Baer]

Background:
There was a good NG article recently about Epson printers.
Basically, their cartridges now "lock out" refilling and generic
replacement.
Worse, if one uses the printer a lot, the printer itself ceases to
function: only so many cartridges and it is useless (unless one is
willing to spend a lot of money to "fix" what is not broken - just reset
a counter).
And there is *nothing* by Epson anywhere to let un-suspecting buyers
get even a hint of this crap.
Questions:
What is the story concerning HP printers in general?
Can one re-fill as one sees fit?
Can one use generics as one sees fit?
Can one use hundreds of cartridges until the printer *really* wears out?
Finally, what about cartridges for the HP PSC 1400 (HP 21 and HP 22)?

 

[John Larkin]

Background:
There was a good NG article recently about Epson printers.
Basically, their cartridges now "lock out" refilling and generic
replacement.
Worse, if one uses the printer a lot, the printer itself ceases to
function: only so many cartridges and it is useless (unless one is
willing to spend a lot of money to "fix" what is not broken - just reset
a counter).
And there is *nothing* by Epson anywhere to let un-suspecting buyers
get even a hint of this crap.
Questions:
What is the story concerning HP printers in general?
Can one re-fill as one sees fit?
Can one use generics as one sees fit?
Can one use hundreds of cartridges until the printer *really* wears out?
Finally, what about cartridges for the HP PSC 1400 (HP 21 and HP 22)?

I got a nice clean Laserjet 6P on ebay for around $50; gave it to my
wife to replace her slow, noisy, unreliable, ink-gobbling Epson. Last
one I bought had a full cartrige and worked great. At moderate use, a
toner cartrige lasts a year or so. Great b&w printer, no crap.


John

 

[Jim Thompson]

I got a nice clean Laserjet 6P on ebay for around $50; gave it to my
wife to replace her slow, noisy, unreliable, ink-gobbling Epson. Last
one I bought had a full cartrige and worked great. At moderate use, a
toner cartrige lasts a year or so. Great b&w printer, no crap.


John

I recently tossed my 6P and bought a 1320. The 6P rollers and
"paper-grabber" wear out and it starts feeding crooked, and skipping,
producing text with "gaps".

My 6P had already been refurbished once, so I decided I was due for a
new toy ;-)

Love the 1320... it prints on both sides.

...Jim Thompson

 

[Joerg]

Hello Robert,

Worse, if one uses the printer a lot, the printer itself ceases to
function: only so many cartridges and it is useless (unless one is
willing to spend a lot of money to "fix" what is not broken - just reset
a counter).

That would be mean if it were so. Smells like some lawsuits coming down
the pipe.

What is the story concerning HP printers in general?

They have been good to me so far.

Can one re-fill as one sees fit?

I could with my first Deskjet. The ink I refilled actually produced
better quality prints than the original, made a real difference with
fine-print schematics. I could do it 2-3 times until the head nozzles
were literally scraping off.

Then I tried it with my copier toner because the cartridges became
unavailable. Didn't work. I guess the loose toner is opposite charge
polarity or something, I don't know. So it looks like a perfectly fine
copier that has to be tossed just because I can't get gas. At least not
at any reasonable price.

Can one use generics as one sees fit?

Generic printers? Make sure you can obtain cartridges, else it'll become
worthless soon. Generic cartridges? I tried a "recycled green" cartridge
in an HP. Cost only 20% less but I tried for environmental
consciousness. Never again.

Can one use hundreds of cartridges until the printer *really* wears out?

I don't think that anything except maybe heavy duty industrial printers
offer that kind of mileage. The big ones usually have an exchangeable
toner bucket, not a cartridge.

Regards, Joerg

 

[Joel Kolstad]

Questions:
What is the story concerning HP printers in general?

Depends on the model. Some of the newer models use "chipped" cartridges with
unique IDs, and once the printers decides that they're empty, it'll refuse to
use them again. However, the printer itself remembers the cartridge IDs and I
seem to recall it only remembers something like the last two you've used, so
it's easy to fool by keeping a set of three cartridges around and rotating
their usage (a good idea anyway). Alternatively, you can find on the 'net
which pins on the cartridge to cover up so as to foil reading the ID
completely, and -- happily -- HP decided that it was better to just keep
printing anyway in such cases rather than refusing to print at all.

Can one use hundreds of cartridges until the printer *really* wears out?

I believe so. I have a DeskJet 6127 that just keeps on printing even though
it's been whining at me that there's "0% black ink left!" for many months now
(I've refilled it twice...).

In terms of user-unfriendlisness towards refilling, I think that Epson is the
worst, HP is in the middle, and Canon is the friendliest. For <$120, a Canon
ip6000d is one heck of a deal (auto duplexing, two paper trays, built in
memory card reader & color LCD, etc.), the cartridges are translucent and -- I
believe, haven't done it myself yet -- easy to refill.

---Joel Kolstad

 

[Jim Thompson]

Depends on the model. Some of the newer models use "chipped" cartridges with
unique IDs, and once the printers decides that they're empty, it'll refuse to
use them again. However, the printer itself remembers the cartridge IDs and I
seem to recall it only remembers something like the last two you've used, so
it's easy to fool by keeping a set of three cartridges around and rotating
their usage (a good idea anyway). Alternatively, you can find on the 'net
which pins on the cartridge to cover up so as to foil reading the ID
completely, and -- happily -- HP decided that it was better to just keep
printing anyway in such cases rather than refusing to print at all.


I believe so. I have a DeskJet 6127 that just keeps on printing even though
it's been whining at me that there's "0% black ink left!" for many months now
(I've refilled it twice...).

In terms of user-unfriendlisness towards refilling, I think that Epson is the
worst, HP is in the middle, and Canon is the friendliest. For <$120, a Canon
ip6000d is one heck of a deal (auto duplexing, two paper trays, built in
memory card reader & color LCD, etc.), the cartridges are translucent and -- I
believe, haven't done it myself yet -- easy to refill.

---Joel Kolstad

Must be nice to have so little work that you have time on your hands
to waste on questionable-quality refill kits.

Me, I just log into OfficeMax.com, make a few clicks, and a new
cartridge appears at my door the next day, no shipping charges.

If I used a refill kit it would save me about 5 minutes of income and
take me 15 minutes to do the task. Hardly worth the effort.

...Jim Thompson

 

[Jim Thompson]

Must be nice to have so little work that you have time on your hands
to waste on questionable-quality refill kits.

Me, I just log into OfficeMax.com, make a few clicks, and a new
cartridge appears at my door the next day, no shipping charges.

If I used a refill kit it would save me about 5 minutes of income and
take me 15 minutes to do the task. Hardly worth the effort.

...Jim Thompson

Reminds me, I'm down to less than 250 sheets of paper... click, click,
delivery tomorrow ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[mc]

Background:
There was a good NG article recently about Epson printers. ....
Worse, if one uses the printer a lot, the printer itself ceases to
function: only so many cartridges and it is useless (unless one is willing
to spend a lot of money to "fix" what is not broken - just reset a
counter).
And there is *nothing* by Epson anywhere to let un-suspecting buyers get
even a hint of this crap.

If this is true, has it been reported to the Federal Trade Commission?

Do you have it from a reliable source or just a stranger in a newsgroup?

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

Me, I just log into OfficeMax.com, make a few clicks, and a new
cartridge appears at my door the next day, no shipping charges.

If I used a refill kit it would save me about 5 minutes of income and
take me 15 minutes to do the task. Hardly worth the effort.

...Jim Thompson

Yes, I pop over to Staples, which is about 50' out of my way several
times a week. I'm on my second replacment cartridge for my HP1200 in
something like 5 years, at just C$90 each. And the drum gets replaced
each time, so the quality doesn't suffer.

Total pages printed: 6979
Pages jammed in printer: 6

Had a few more jams since I started using thinner dirt-cheap Sam's
club 20lb paper. Made in Sweden. They must be using Russki logs or
something. ;-) HP ultra-bright all-purpose 22lb paper is nicer.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[Joel Kolstad]

Jim,

Must be nice to have so little work that you have time on your hands
to waste on questionable-quality refill kits.

If I used a refill kit it would save me about 5 minutes of income and
take me 15 minutes to do the task. Hardly worth the effort.

My experience with ink refills was back when I was a student making all of
$1625/mo -- which is actually more than many people make, such as your average
Wal*Mart or McDonalds employee!

These days I spend my spare time trying to build things like your gyrator
circuit without success (see my ABSE post).

---Joel

 

[mc]

Hello Robert,


That would be mean if it were so. Smells like some lawsuits coming down
the pipe.

In fact, given the way Epson promotes their printers to high-volume
professional photographers -- and some of them even have ink tank systems
with ink by the liter -- I am skeptical about the allegation. It sounds
like exactly the kind of thing a salesman would say to steer people away
from Epson toward his product.

Or it could be a half-truth. There may be counters that indicate when some
internal parts are likely to be worn out.

 

[mc]

Concerning the economics of refilling...

If you don't need precise color reproduction, you should be using a color
laser printer anyway.

If you are doing reproducible photo-quality color, you shouldn't cut
corners.

 

[Jim Thompson]

Yes, I pop over to Staples, which is about 50' out of my way several
times a week. I'm on my second replacment cartridge for my HP1200 in
something like 5 years, at just C$90 each. And the drum gets replaced
each time, so the quality doesn't suffer.

Total pages printed: 6979
Pages jammed in printer: 6

Had a few more jams since I started using thinner dirt-cheap Sam's
club 20lb paper. Made in Sweden. They must be using Russki logs or
something. ;-) HP ultra-bright all-purpose 22lb paper is nicer.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

I use OfficeMax MaxBrite (24#/94 Brightness)

...Jim Thompson

 

[Robert Baer]

I got a nice clean Laserjet 6P on ebay for around $50; gave it to my
wife to replace her slow, noisy, unreliable, ink-gobbling Epson. Last
one I bought had a full cartrige and worked great. At moderate use, a
toner cartrige lasts a year or so. Great b&w printer, no crap.


John

Thanks; i guess i should have been more eXplicit.
This query relates to color inkjets.

 

[Robert Baer]

Hello Robert,



That would be mean if it were so. Smells like some lawsuits coming down
the pipe.



They have been good to me so far.



I could with my first Deskjet. The ink I refilled actually produced
better quality prints than the original, made a real difference with
fine-print schematics. I could do it 2-3 times until the head nozzles
were literally scraping off.

Then I tried it with my copier toner because the cartridges became
unavailable. Didn't work. I guess the loose toner is opposite charge
polarity or something, I don't know. So it looks like a perfectly fine
copier that has to be tossed just because I can't get gas. At least not
at any reasonable price.



Generic printers? Make sure you can obtain cartridges, else it'll become
worthless soon. Generic cartridges? I tried a "recycled green" cartridge
in an HP. Cost only 20% less but I tried for environmental
consciousness. Never again.



I don't think that anything except maybe heavy duty industrial printers
offer that kind of mileage. The big ones usually have an exchangeable
toner bucket, not a cartridge.

Regards, Joerg

I have an old Cannon that has run for many years; the cartridges take
all of the wear.
It was made many years before Epson decided to put a "lock" on their
printers and inkjet cartridges.
Does HP put a "lock" on their inkjet cartridges and/or inkjet printers?

 

[Robert Baer]

Depends on the model. Some of the newer models use "chipped" cartridges with
unique IDs, and once the printers decides that they're empty, it'll refuse to
use them again. However, the printer itself remembers the cartridge IDs and I
seem to recall it only remembers something like the last two you've used, so
it's easy to fool by keeping a set of three cartridges around and rotating
their usage (a good idea anyway). Alternatively, you can find on the 'net
which pins on the cartridge to cover up so as to foil reading the ID
completely, and -- happily -- HP decided that it was better to just keep
printing anyway in such cases rather than refusing to print at all.




I believe so. I have a DeskJet 6127 that just keeps on printing even though
it's been whining at me that there's "0% black ink left!" for many months now
(I've refilled it twice...).

In terms of user-unfriendlisness towards refilling, I think that Epson is the
worst, HP is in the middle, and Canon is the friendliest. For <$120, a Canon
ip6000d is one heck of a deal (auto duplexing, two paper trays, built in
memory card reader & color LCD, etc.), the cartridges are translucent and -- I
believe, haven't done it myself yet -- easy to refill.

---Joel Kolstad

PERFECT!!!
Many thanks for the valuable info!

 

[Robert Baer]

Must be nice to have so little work that you have time on your hands
to waste on questionable-quality refill kits.

Me, I just log into OfficeMax.com, make a few clicks, and a new
cartridge appears at my door the next day, no shipping charges.

If I used a refill kit it would save me about 5 minutes of income and
take me 15 minutes to do the task. Hardly worth the effort.

...Jim Thompson

Actually, i have found that the refill ink is better than the
"official" stuff.
And it takes only a minute more to refill than replace (takes time to
open the box, cut open the foil, pry out the new cartridge).

 

[Robert Baer]

If this is true, has it been reported to the Federal Trade Commission?

Do you have it from a reliable source or just a stranger in a newsgroup?

One could say "from a stranger in a NG", but there was a lot of
traffic on the posting, and a lot of agreement.

 

[Robert Baer]

Jim,




My experience with ink refills was back when I was a student making all of
$1625/mo -- which is actually more than many people make, such as your average
Wal*Mart or McDonalds employee!

These days I spend my spare time trying to build things like your gyrator
circuit without success (see my ABSE post).

---Joel

Didn't you know that the wave must go clockwise north of the equator,
and counter-clockwise south of the equator?

 

[Robert Baer]

If this is true, has it been reported to the Federal Trade Commission?

Do you have it from a reliable source or just a stranger in a newsgroup?

....and, one of the refill companies *sells* cartridge reset software
for about $20!