Maxim IC frustration - hard to find components

[JeffM]

techman41973 @yahoo.com MULTI-POSTED:

I don't know why Maxim makes it so difficult
for small companies to design with their components.

....A prime example of why multi-posting is a bad idea.
Read more here:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci....*-*+*-*-*-*-two-groups-*-*-aren't-*-different

If we can't convince you not to pay any attention to this
pseudo-manufacturer,
a vendor (Patrick Cheung, Hong Kong)
did respond in your parallel (multi-posted) thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci....eca2d667e901?q=We-do-have-the-following-stock
news:[email protected]

 

[Joerg]

Hello PeteS,

I agree with everything you say here, with an addition. There is _very_
little, if anything, that Maxim makes that can not be done [at least as
well] with devices from another manufacturer. Those other manufacturers
are reaping the benefit of Maxim's short sightedness, imo. That goes
for just about all manufacturers, obviously.

In my cases the usual scenario is that none of the single-source parts
makes it, no matter from whom. Whenever possible I try to use standard
logic chips, FETs, BJT and passives to do just about anything. There are
designs still in production where close to 100 parts could have been
replaced with a few chips and only a dozen passives. But I didn't and
the clients are happy about it. Typically I never hear any mention of
logistics problems again after such re-designs.

I must sadly agree abut EU manufacturers too - I would use them, but I
just can't get them to understand that I am not going to buy 10k of
something for a prototype. So they lose the design. I don't know if
that's your experience with them; it certainly is mine, in general.

It's worse. For example, when I tried to obtain a partial reel of the
Infineon FET BSP297 they really blew it. Didn't call back, promised to
send samples but failed to do so, etc. It's not that I wanted freebies.
I told them I would pay whatever it takes to get them to the US. Well,
they lost that design-in and I haven't considered their other offerings
since.

The sad thing is that some of them are real technological leaders.
Infineon, for example, offers a great selection of hotrod RF
transistors, diodes and other useful parts. Truly mouth-watering stuff.
But what good does it do if you can't buy them at Digikey and they don't
understand how marketing to design engineers works?

Then there is the poor performance of many of their web sites but that's
a whole 'nother matter.

 

[Joerg]

Hello Tim,

There are a few Maxim parts that just cannot be lived without; ...

Which ones would that be? I've not had that happen in the last 20-some
years

 

[PeteS]

Hello PeteS,

I agree with everything you say here, with an addition. There is _very_
little, if anything, that Maxim makes that can not be done [at least as
well] with devices from another manufacturer. Those other manufacturers
are reaping the benefit of Maxim's short sightedness, imo. That goes
for just about all manufacturers, obviously.

In my cases the usual scenario is that none of the single-source parts
makes it, no matter from whom. Whenever possible I try to use standard
logic chips, FETs, BJT and passives to do just about anything. There are
designs still in production where close to 100 parts could have been
replaced with a few chips and only a dozen passives. But I didn't and
the clients are happy about it. Typically I never hear any mention of
logistics problems again after such re-designs.

I must sadly agree abut EU manufacturers too - I would use them, but I
just can't get them to understand that I am not going to buy 10k of
something for a prototype. So they lose the design. I don't know if
that's your experience with them; it certainly is mine, in general.

It's worse. For example, when I tried to obtain a partial reel of the
Infineon FET BSP297 they really blew it. Didn't call back, promised to
send samples but failed to do so, etc. It's not that I wanted freebies.
I told them I would pay whatever it takes to get them to the US. Well,
they lost that design-in and I haven't considered their other offerings
since.

The sad thing is that some of them are real technological leaders.
Infineon, for example, offers a great selection of hotrod RF
transistors, diodes and other useful parts. Truly mouth-watering stuff.
But what good does it do if you can't buy them at Digikey and they don't
understand how marketing to design engineers works?

Then there is the poor performance of many of their web sites but that's
a whole 'nother matter.

I would love to use just standard parts all the time, but in what I do
now space is a real issue, so I am pushed towards low count solutions.
In those cases, I will only use mfrs I can trust (obviously, MAX isn't
one of them). I detest single source solutions as much as anyone -
there are just some times I can't evade it.

Infineon is a particularly bad outfit - they only really sell into the
Tier 1 market (or so they like to think - who knows - one day you might
do a design for a Tier 1 outfit and NOT use their parts).

As to websites - I hear ya. I have a list that rates them as 'good' to
'should be taken out and shot' - might be amusing to start a thread on
that.

Cheers

PeteS

 

[Joerg]

Hello Pete,

I would love to use just standard parts all the time, but in what I do
now space is a real issue, so I am pushed towards low count solutions.
In those cases, I will only use mfrs I can trust (obviously, MAX isn't
one of them). I detest single source solutions as much as anyone -
there are just some times I can't evade it.

Just ran the BOM again on one of my tinier designs. 64 parts on about
1.5 square inches. It can be done if you use 0402 or smaller. The SOT23
parts on there were comparably huge.

Infineon is a particularly bad outfit - they only really sell into the
Tier 1 market (or so they like to think - who knows - one day you might
do a design for a Tier 1 outfit and NOT use their parts).

That's just the thing. They believe they can forecast what will be
Tier-1 in the distant future. They can't. Sometimes we design stuff that
looks like medium volumes. Then sales take off and it remains in
production until the cows come home. Getting onto the BOM at that stage
is next to impossible for any manufacturer unless they agree to very
painful rebates. I've even had them offer fancy dinners and all that
(but politely declined).

Tier-1 preference carries substantial risks. It only takes one large
client to drop the ball and there goes the whole apple cart. Then there
are layoffs because they failed to groom Tier-2.

 

[John Woodgate]

I've even had them offer fancy dinners and all that (but politely
declined).

I'll take that onerous duty off your hands at any time. (;-)

Someone once asked me what influence entertainment had (in the days when
it was more routine). I said that it didn't have any influence on
anything that the Purchasing Department would notice and complain about.

The only influence was that if there was a problem, I'd be inclined to
call the supplier (even at a home number if I had one), rather than
leave it to the Quality Department to get out the long knives.

 

[Tim Wescott]

Hello Tim,




Which ones would that be? I've not had that happen in the last 20-some
years

They make a serial-out ADC, the '185 I think, that actually meets its
specifications -- but then, when we turned that product we revisited the
system design so that we could use ADCs that were really only good to 14
bits, and design the Maxim part out.

I wonder what they're going to do after they tank? Get bought by Atmel?

http://www.eet.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=191800862

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Posting from Google? See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/

"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" came out in April.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

 

[PeteS]

They make a serial-out ADC, the '185 I think, that actually meets its
specifications -- but then, when we turned that product we revisited the
system design so that we could use ADCs that were really only good to 14
bits, and design the Maxim part out.

I wonder what they're going to do after they tank? Get bought by Atmel?

http://www.eet.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=191800862

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Posting from Google? See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/

"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" came out in April.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

In a fairly recent thread on comp.arch.embedded I stated to the effect
of 'my only problem with Maxim is it's Maxim'



Cheers

PeteS

 

[Joerg]

Hello John,

Someone once asked me what influence entertainment had (in the days when
it was more routine). I said that it didn't have any influence on
anything that the Purchasing Department would notice and complain about.

However, in Europe I did like the candy boxes they brought the
purchasing guys during Christmas season. Purchasing was nice in that
they always informed the engineers to swing by and share.

 

[Joerg]

Hello Tim,

They make a serial-out ADC, the '185 I think, that actually meets its
specifications -- but then, when we turned that product we revisited the
system design so that we could use ADCs that were really only good to 14
bits, and design the Maxim part out.

TI makes nice serial-out ADCs. ADS1252 and stuff like that if you need
24 bits and the BOM budget allows.

I wonder what they're going to do after they tank? Get bought by Atmel?

http://www.eet.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=191800862

That story sounds like the Wild West. Hopefully nobody will bring a
Glock to the next meeting...

 

[Chris Jones]

Yet I have had Maxim sales guys tell me -- with straight faces -- that
Maxim never obsoletes a design.

As far as I can tell this is true -- the just don't make a run until
they have orders for 50000 pieces.

There are a few Maxim parts that just cannot be lived without; for those
you need to order a years supply a year in advance. Then just wait --
when the other 49800 get ordered they'll start building your parts.

It seems that their external foundry does the obsoleting for them (e.g.
MAX038)

Chris

 

[John Larkin]

I don't know why Maxim makes it so difficult for small companies to
design with their components.

They've just nailed us again. After quoting us 2-month delivery, and
the parts finally due soon, they've again slipped the ship date on
some 16-bit serial DACs we really, really need. If they run true to
form, near the next ship date they'll slip it again. Once they slipped
the ship date on a part four times, then discontinued it; that was the
MAX9690 comparator. They replaced it with the 9691, the only
comparator in the galaxy that has back-to-back diodes across its
inputs!

It also looks like an increasing number of Maxim parts are only
available direct from Maxim, and are never stocked by distributors. So
a potential buffer stock doesn't exist.

John

 

[PeteS]

They've just nailed us again. After quoting us 2-month delivery, and
the parts finally due soon, they've again slipped the ship date on
some 16-bit serial DACs we really, really need. If they run true to
form, near the next ship date they'll slip it again. Once they slipped
the ship date on a part four times, then discontinued it; that was the
MAX9690 comparator. They replaced it with the 9691, the only
comparator in the galaxy that has back-to-back diodes across its
inputs!

It also looks like an increasing number of Maxim parts are only
available direct from Maxim, and are never stocked by distributors. So
a potential buffer stock doesn't exist.

John

You have my sympathy. I got caught in the Maxim Fast-EOL cycle about a
year ago (a very nice Dallas part) and what little of me was still
attached to Maxim got detached at that time.

I did a respin of the board using other techniques and I now won't
design in a Maxim part - period. There is nothing they do I can't
replicate in other ways, although as mentioned I may need to use a few
external parts.That's something I can live with - at least I can always
get 0402 precision parts

Cheers

PeteS

 

[[email protected]]

Maxim are successful despite their tactics.
Remind me of the auto manufacturers who design pretty but un repairable
vehicles. The ignorant user buys and regrets after.
We need a user comparison mechanism with feedback
Personally if it has to be an analog IC Linear, Texas I find helpful
and reliable.

 

[Tim Wescott]

Maxim are successful despite their tactics.

So far.

Remind me of the auto manufacturers who design pretty but un
repairable vehicles. The ignorant user buys and regrets after.

Yup. After decades of treating customers like fools Ford and GM are on
the skids, and Chrysler is now a division of Daimler. Drive down the
freeway and count the Fords and Chevys, and compare them to the
population of Mazdas, Hondas, German cars and Toyotas.

Then deduct the number of Fords that are really Mazdas, and Chevys that
are really Toyotas.

--

Tim Wescott (who drives a Ford)
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Posting from Google? See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/

"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" came out in April.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

 

[Joerg]

Hello Tim,

So far.

The question remains: How much more successful could they be if they got
their logistics problems licked?

 

[[email protected]]

Well, that's true. Maxim doesn't seem to be making them at all.
--

I wonder if they have a bunch of design teams doing what ever chips
they think could be interesting on pizza masks to get samples, and
then only if they actually get someone big enough to bite they start
a real production

-Lasse

 

[[email protected]]

Jeff, as you know there are many people on USENET who like projecting
their childhood issues
by screaming and yelling when someone multiposts. I am sure you aren't
one of them.
I accidentally had sci.electronics.design twice in my group selection
(the other should have been sci.electronics.components),
so I had to create another post for sci.electronics.components.
Anyone can google my profile and see that I rarely if ever did this
before in my many years of USENET posting.
Thank you

 

[budgie]

I wonder if they have a bunch of design teams doing what ever chips
they think could be interesting on pizza masks to get samples, and
then only if they actually get someone big enough to bite they start
a real production

I suspect that is the closest yet to their business model.

 

[Robert Baer]

Yeah- but you're that Clarence nutcase troll...how's the speech
impediment coming along.

This cartoon talking cow cannot udder anything properly...