LM324 datasheet with guaranteed sink voltages?

[Joerg]

Is there a really, really detailed schematic with guaranteed output
voltage limits versus sink current for the LM324? Most look like this:

http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM124.pdf

Obviously, page 8 top left and the schematic show that one can get to
around 700mV above the negative rail at 1mA, one BE drop of Q13 plus the
saturation voltage (or close to it) of Q12. But no "hard" data anywhere.

 

[Jim Thompson]

Is there a really, really detailed schematic with guaranteed output
voltage limits versus sink current for the LM324? Most look like this:

http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM124.pdf

Obviously, page 8 top left and the schematic show that one can get to
around 700mV above the negative rail at 1mA, one BE drop of Q13 plus the
saturation voltage (or close to it) of Q12. But no "hard" data anywhere.

You don't like page 4 ?

...Jim Thompson

 

[Joerg]

You don't like page 4 ?

Nope, they only give one value there, how much current it is guaranteed
to drive when at 2V above the rail (10mA). Then uA value stated for
200mV isn't too useful, it just confirms that the current source
outlined in the schematic actually made it into production ;-)

10mA is pretty much at the point where the output device loses it. Not a
terribly useful piece of information.

 

[Jim Thompson]

Nope, they only give one value there, how much current it is guaranteed
to drive when at 2V above the rail (10mA). Then uA value stated for
200mV isn't too useful, it just confirms that the current source
outlined in the schematic actually made it into production ;-)

10mA is pretty much at the point where the output device loses it. Not a
terribly useful piece of information.

WHY are you using an LM324... CHEAPSKATE ?

...Jim Thompson

 

[Joerg]

WHY are you using an LM324... CHEAPSKATE ?

Umm, yes, that would be correct. Also the sheer number of suppliers, no
single-sourced parts around here unless there really is a compelling
reason. And usually there isn't a compelling reason.

BTW my Barricade needed a few power cycles over the last week. Not good.
What did you buy to replace yours? Tried a firmware upgrade before? Of
course the real cheapskate fix would be to plug it into a timer that
turns it off for an hour after midnight

Unfortunately I am going to need that printer port in there ...

 

[Joerg]

Yes, Replace the caps.
I had some issues with my not to long ago.

Thanks. The electrolytics in the power supply inside the router? That's
kind of disappointing. Those routers used to be on the pricier side,
metal case, no wall wart and all that.

 

[Jamie]

Umm, yes, that would be correct. Also the sheer number of suppliers, no
single-sourced parts around here unless there really is a compelling
reason. And usually there isn't a compelling reason.

BTW my Barricade needed a few power cycles over the last week. Not good.
What did you buy to replace yours? Tried a firmware upgrade before? Of
course the real cheapskate fix would be to plug it into a timer that
turns it off for an hour after midnight

Unfortunately I am going to need that printer port in there ...

Yes, Replace the caps.
I had some issues with my not to long ago.

 

[Jim Thompson]

Umm, yes, that would be correct. Also the sheer number of suppliers, no
single-sourced parts around here unless there really is a compelling
reason. And usually there isn't a compelling reason.

All LM324's are not made the same. Remember my blacklisting Motorola?

BTW my Barricade needed a few power cycles over the last week. Not good.

Yep, Mine got like that more and more often over time.

What did you buy to replace yours?

Linksys BEFSR81

Tried a firmware upgrade before?

Yes. It was current, yet erratic :-(

Of
course the real cheapskate fix would be to plug it into a timer that
turns it off for an hour after midnight
Yep.


Unfortunately I am going to need that printer port in there ...

Linksys makes a printer switch but, since the printers were wearing
out too, I bought printers with network ports... hp LaserJet 2015dn
and hp OfficeJet Pro K850.

We also have a Dymo LabelWriter 400, but it's local to my wife's
machine.

...Jim Thompson

 

[Jamie]

Thanks. The electrolytics in the power supply inside the router? That's
kind of disappointing. Those routers used to be on the pricier side,
metal case, no wall wart and all that.

I'm on my second unit. the first one lasted about 8 hours. I unplugged
it from the service because a severe storm was coming in and I had just
got cable internet.. I went to work, my step son got home and thought he
was mighty smart!. I had other adapters there in the same area
unplugged. He didn't bother to look or care if they were correct of not,
all he wanted was the internet.. So, my first unit was a 5 volt DC
wallwart unit. I had a 12 AC wall wart there unplugged. so you can guess
which one went into the router.
Of course, it was all my fault which it usually is. I can say with
confidence, that boy does not share my gene pool.

The one I have now uses a 12 volt AC wallwart and the PSU is internal
with electro caps ..
Mine dried up and lost value... Caused unstable supply.

 

[Eeyore]

I can say with confidence, that boy does not share my gene pool.

One of the milkman's ?

Graham

 

[Joerg]

All LM324's are not made the same. Remember my blacklisting Motorola?

I don't remember. What did their LM324 do to you?

Yep, Mine got like that more and more often over time.

I've read that some of the heat sinks in there are on the skimpy side,
at least I'll open it before I give it up. Mostly because of that LPT port.

Linksys BEFSR81

I've got a Cisco wireless here (I believe same brand as Linksys) that
also has a few CAT-5 ports so I can use it as backup should the SMC
croak on a busy workday. I try to have a backup for pretty much anything
essential.

Yes. It was current, yet erratic :-(

Some firmwares supposedly could choke up when incomplete or deliberately
mutilated packets arrived, requiring a power cycle. At least that's what
I've read.

Linksys makes a printer switch but, since the printers were wearing
out too, I bought printers with network ports... hp LaserJet 2015dn
and hp OfficeJet Pro K850.

Got one of those as well (Brother MFC). Also has fax, copier and scanner
in there. The sheet feeder is really nice. Every year I had to copy a
huge stack of papers before giving them to my CPA, in case they get
lost. Now it's really easy: Put stack in MFC, hit scan to file button on
PC, go do something else. No waste of paper and 15 minutes later it's
all in one PDF file. Sweet.

We also have a Dymo LabelWriter 400, but it's local to my wife's
machine.

We still write labels by hand, or I print, glue to blank label, then stick.

 

[Jamie]

Jamie wrote:




One of the milkman's ?

Graham

Well as I said, "Step son", He's more like his mother and
I won't go any future there.

 

[Joerg]

I'm on my second unit. the first one lasted about 8 hours. I unplugged
it from the service because a severe storm was coming in and I had just
got cable internet.. I went to work, my step son got home and thought he
was mighty smart!. I had other adapters there in the same area
unplugged. He didn't bother to look or care if they were correct of not,
all he wanted was the internet.. So, my first unit was a 5 volt DC
wallwart unit. I had a 12 AC wall wart there unplugged. so you can guess
which one went into the router.
Of course, it was all my fault which it usually is. I can say with
confidence, that boy does not share my gene pool.

The one I have now uses a 12 volt AC wallwart and the PSU is internal
with electro caps ..
Mine dried up and lost value... Caused unstable supply.

That must have been anotehr router. Mine has a SMPS built-in.

 

[Joerg]

Really, they made like 4 different units supporting the same external
options.
Mine has 4 Eports and 1 WAN, 1 printer and 1 serial port for external
back up modem

Similar here except it has 7 LAN ports. But no wall wart. Also, the
whole metal box remains remarkably cool.

 

[Jamie]

That must have been anotehr router. Mine has a SMPS built-in.

Really, they made like 4 different units supporting the same external
options.
Mine has 4 Eports and 1 WAN, 1 printer and 1 serial port for external
back up modem

 

[Jamie]

Similar here except it has 7 LAN ports. But no wall wart. Also, the
whole metal box remains remarkably cool.

I would still considered looking at the caps. they are a common problem
with equipment that starts to slowly develope problems.

Btw, you're correct, we don't have the same one. oh well.

 

[Jim Thompson]

I don't remember. What did their LM324 do to you?

Extreme distortion. Reeked havoc with active filters.

I've read that some of the heat sinks in there are on the skimpy side,
at least I'll open it before I give it up. Mostly because of that LPT port.



I've got a Cisco wireless here (I believe same brand as Linksys) that
also has a few CAT-5 ports so I can use it as backup should the SMC
croak on a busy workday. I try to have a backup for pretty much anything
essential.



Some firmwares supposedly could choke up when incomplete or deliberately
mutilated packets arrived, requiring a power cycle. At least that's what
I've read.



Got one of those as well (Brother MFC). Also has fax, copier and scanner
in there. The sheet feeder is really nice. Every year I had to copy a
huge stack of papers before giving them to my CPA, in case they get
lost. Now it's really easy: Put stack in MFC, hit scan to file button on
PC, go do something else. No waste of paper and 15 minutes later it's
all in one PDF file. Sweet.



We still write labels by hand, or I print, glue to blank label, then stick.

We have ~1000 Girl Scouts... we're neighborhood level now, and I'm the
neighborhood cookie manager ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[Joerg]

Extreme distortion. Reeked havoc with active filters.

It reeked? SCNR ;-)

But yes, I would never use them for anything high fidelity. Only for
mundane stuff and since most circuits somehow end up in that category I
am probably responsible for a grand total of a large truckload in sales
of LM324.

We have ~1000 Girl Scouts... we're neighborhood level now, and I'm the
neighborhood cookie manager ;-)

That sure explains the label printer.

 

[Jim Thompson]

Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]

We also have a Dymo LabelWriter 400, but it's local to my wife's
machine.

We still write labels by hand, or I print, glue to blank label, then stick.

We have ~1000 Girl Scouts... we're neighborhood level now, and I'm the
neighborhood cookie manager ;-)

That sure explains the label printer.

Sure explains why NOT to volunteer ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 01:10:23 GMT, Joerg

Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]

We also have a Dymo LabelWriter 400, but it's local to my wife's
machine.

We still write labels by hand, or I print, glue to blank label, then stick.

We have ~1000 Girl Scouts... we're neighborhood level now, and I'm the
neighborhood cookie manager ;-)

That sure explains the label printer.

Sure explains why NOT to volunteer ;-)

If your wife wasn't busy with her volunteer work she might decide to
spend more time keeping you in line!


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida