I need a good tinkerer who can help me with a project

[William P.N. Smith]

[I'm with Roger, this may not be very impressive in a world in which
technology performs miracles on a daily basis.]

This would be a perfect project for some random high-school student,
assuming they still fiddle with hardware. Ask me 30 years ago! 8*)

A couple of random thoughts:

Maybe have the input and record-override functions be radio, so you
don't have to open the box to add a microcassette, or use a
solid-state memory to hold the headlines data.

Ask other members of the audience to bring their own boombox from
home, so after playing it in yours you can play it in theirs.

Of course, there's always the sleight-of-hand of swapping the
cassette...

Sounds like a fun project, but you are on the wrong coast, I don't
have the bandwidth to do it in my spare time, and you can't afford my
normal hourly rate. 8*)

 

[Roger Johansson]

[I'm with Roger, this may not be very impressive in a world in which
technology performs miracles on a daily basis.]

I think magicians should avoid all technical apparatus, for the above
reason.

The best trick I have ever seen:
A swedish magician made a series of tv shows, where he approached
tourists on beaches in sweden. Language problems with foreign tourists
added to the comical effect. His nice personality and charm was a big
part of his shows.

He did a few tricks with a red piece of cloth, like palming it and other
classical stuff. When that trick was over he throws away the cloth over
his shoulder and reaches for the next trick in his pocket, but the red
piece of cloth does not fall to the ground, it starts to fly like a
butterfly, and he and the people around him look at it with astonishment,
as it gains speed and flies towards the forest behind the beach, it flies
in among the trees and finally disappears some 200 meters away from the
crowd at the beach.

That was just incredible. And the magician looked just as surprised as
everybody else. "What the **** is that red cloth doing?"

Obviously he must have attached some thin, nearly invisible line to it,
and had a motor in the forest, up in a tree, which pulled it in, with
changing speeds, so it slowed down, picked up speed, slowed down, picked
up speed and gradually the speed increased somewhat. The effect was that
it was behaving like it was alive.

I was more impressed, and had more fun watching that trick, than any
technical apparatus trick ever could have given.

Sounds like a fun project, but you are on the wrong coast, I don't
have the bandwidth to do it in my spare time, and you can't afford my
normal hourly rate. 8*)

We have a problem with people who try to get something built, often
offering a few bucks for it. Such people think we are a bunch of high
school kids who would be thankful for the chance of making a few bucks.

The reality is that most of the experts here are old and rich and very
knowledgeble people who enjoy writing explanations, old engineers and
writers of technical books. Such people have no need for small sums of
money, less than 10000 dollars won't even get them off their chairs. It
doesn't mean anything to people who have already made millions working
for NASA, are responsible for the circuits inside every PC, are owning
their own factories or are old authors of books and electronics magazine
articles.

Give them an interesting question and they will write pages of
explanations, and design circuits, but they will not build anything and
are not interested in money.

He might find an exception, don't let me discourage anybody, I just want
to inform the other person that the chances of getting anything built by
these old geezers are not so big. But he can take their advices and
circuit suggestions and find somebody locally to build it.

 

[NSM]

| The reality is that most of the experts here are old and rich and very
| knowledgeble people who enjoy writing explanations, old engineers and
| writers of technical books. Such people have no need for small sums of
| money, less than 10000 dollars won't even get them off their chairs. It
| doesn't mean anything to people who have already made millions working
| for NASA, are responsible for the circuits inside every PC, are owning
| their own factories or are old authors of books and electronics magazine
| articles.

And the rest of us have all lost money on one-offs for non-commercial
persons - sometimes more than once.

N

 

[Ed Price]

That is why I am going with a very conventional looking boombox. In
general, magic with apparent everyday objects is more impressive because
people don't even think of them as being rigged.

Avi

As a test engineer, I assume everything is rigged. I appreciate "magic"
shows for the displayed dexterity and ingenuity of the performer. Now, if
you could announce TOMORROW'S headlines, I'd be a lot more impressed. <g>

Ed
wb6wsn

 

[Ed Price]

| The reality is that most of the experts here are old and rich and very
| knowledgeble people who enjoy writing explanations, old engineers and
| writers of technical books. Such people have no need for small sums of
| money, less than 10000 dollars won't even get them off their chairs.

Hey, speak for yourself; I'd get out of my chair for a lot less than $10k.

| It
| doesn't mean anything to people who have already made millions working
| for NASA,

One of my buddies retired from NASA after 37 years; you mean he's a
millionaire and never told me?

| are responsible for the circuits inside every PC, are owning
| their own factories

Do you know that owning 12.5% of something that goes bankrupt is not the
road to riches? <g>


Ed
wb6wsn

 

[Rich Grise]

Even better!


Yup. That's what I wrote.

Sorry for missing the attribution.

The secret sequence is to arm it again
before the next show.

Illusions are _so_ _easy_!

I've done the 3-rope trick; I caught the actual gimmic by looking over
the shoulder of some guy who was selling magic crap at some corner booth
at the OC fair a millennium ago.

I'd been working on smoothing the transition, and practicing in front of
prospective audiences, and it doesn't seem to matter how shitty I do it,
they don't spot it.

There's some card tricks, where the whole gimmick is to peel the second
card from the bottom.

I guess this is why Grampa and Weird Uncle Harold can find quarters in
kids' ears so easily. ;-)

Of course, these days, it would be "Golden Dollars." Feh.

I'm also observably observant - there's some guy who I did some consulting
work for, who had a "Business Card With Movable Hole" trick, and that guy,
after getting to know me a little bit, wouldn't even _perform_ the trick
in front of me, where I could spot the gag. It's presumably nothing more
than sleight-of-hand, but I'm still working on palming stuff.

Anybody got simple, free, close-up illusions?

Bar tricks don't count, notably, "Pick up a beer bottle with a straw",
or "blow the dime into the glass". These are just mundane stuff.

Thanks!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

It sounds to me as if you could do it simply by accessing the
microphone, speaker, and switches - no knowledge of the internals
needed.

Someone else mentioned having engineers and/or tech examine the box
for spoofs - in that case, you'd have to get one with one main processor,
and rewrite the ROM.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[NSM]

| Do you know that owning 12.5% of something that goes bankrupt is not the
| road to riches? <g>

Buy Bre-X at 0.25 and sell at $280 -- happiness.

Buy Bre-X at $280 and sell at 0.25 -- misery.

It's all about when!

N

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Guy Macon <_see.web.page_@_www.guy
macon.com_> wrote (in <[email protected]>) about 'I
need a good tinkerer who can help me with a project - Better
Explanation', on Mon, 27 Dec 2004:

It sounds to me as if you could do it simply by accessing the
microphone, speaker, and switches - no knowledge of the internals
needed.

You, and anyone of similar opinion, are, of course, very welcome to try.

 

[Guy Macon]

Of course, there's always the sleight-of-hand of swapping the
cassette...

That's what they expect. With the modified boombox he can stand
on the other end of the stage and have an audience member do the
magic.

 

[Guy Macon]

Someone else mentioned having engineers and/or tech examine the box
for spoofs - in that case, you'd have to get one with one main processor,
and rewrite the ROM.

I disagree, unless the engineers/techs are allowed to dissasemble it.
I was thinking of having them examine it to see that it works like
a normal boombox should.

 

[Avi Frier]

I have this mental picture of a bunch of fellows who design electronics
for a living examining this perfectly normal (at the moment) boom box
trying to figure out the trick. How did he do it? He was standing 15
feet away! The box with the cassette was mailed to someone we all know
and trust! We opened the box, we played the tape, we tested the tape
and the boombox and verified that they are both normal. I think that
most engineers would be stumped.

That's the plan!

 

[Avi Frier]

[I'm with Roger, this may not be very impressive in a world in which
technology performs miracles on a daily basis.]

I think magicians should avoid all technical apparatus, for the above
reason.

The best trick I have ever seen:
A swedish magician made a series of tv shows, where he approached
tourists on beaches in sweden. Language problems with foreign tourists
added to the comical effect. His nice personality and charm was a big
part of his shows.

He did a few tricks with a red piece of cloth, like palming it and other
classical stuff. When that trick was over he throws away the cloth over
his shoulder and reaches for the next trick in his pocket, but the red
piece of cloth does not fall to the ground, it starts to fly like a
butterfly, and he and the people around him look at it with astonishment,
as it gains speed and flies towards the forest behind the beach, it flies
in among the trees and finally disappears some 200 meters away from the
crowd at the beach.

That was just incredible. And the magician looked just as surprised as
everybody else. "What the **** is that red cloth doing?"

Obviously he must have attached some thin, nearly invisible line to it,
and had a motor in the forest, up in a tree, which pulled it in, with
changing speeds, so it slowed down, picked up speed, slowed down, picked
up speed and gradually the speed increased somewhat. The effect was that
it was behaving like it was alive.

I was more impressed, and had more fun watching that trick, than any
technical apparatus trick ever could have given.

It amazes me that you don't think there was technical apparatus involved
here!

 

[Winfield Hill]

Roger Johansson wrote...

The reality is that most of the experts here are old and rich and very
knowledgeble people who enjoy writing explanations, old engineers and
writers of technical books. Such people have no need for small sums of
money, less than 10000 dollars won't even get them off their chairs. It
doesn't mean anything to people who have already made millions working
for NASA, are responsible for the circuits inside every PC, are owning
their own factories or are old authors of books and electronics magazine
articles.

Give them an interesting question and they will write pages of
explanations, and design circuits, but they will not build anything and
are not interested in money.

He might find an exception, don't let me discourage anybody, I just want
to inform the other person that the chances of getting anything built by
these old geezers are not so big. But he can take their advices and
circuit suggestions and find somebody locally to build it.

Oops! He's on to us!

 

[[email protected]]

The reality is that most of the experts here are old and rich and very

knowledgeble people who enjoy writing explanations, old engineers and
writers of technical books. Such people have no need for small sums of
money, less than 10000 dollars won't even get them off their chairs.

Ouch. I've written magazine articles, two technical books, am working
on my third (as well as another series of articles for IBM), and I
generally like writing explanations here and elsewhere. But I offered
this guy to get out of my chair and do his little project for much less
than 10k. I guess it must be because I'm not old. THAT must be the
secret. Old people must have such difficulty rising from a seated
position that they require stacks of cash - preferably in singles - to
chock them up step by step. From an engineering standpoint, that's the
most logical explanation, right?

 

[Bob Stephens]

It
doesn't mean anything to people who have already made millions working
for NASA,

Umm... I've done work for NASA and I don't recall any millions coming my
way. Should have negotiated better I guess.

Bob

 

[Roger Johansson]

It amazes me that you don't think there was technical apparatus
involved here!

There was no apparatus which the viewers could see.
He did not start the trick by showing them a technical apparatus,
explaining how it works, letting engineers check it, etc..

There was just a few people, in bathing suits, on the beach, and a little
piece of red cloth.

I think a lot of the effect of this trick was created by the sudden
change of the dimensions of the arena.

He was doing close-up magic tricks, less than a meter from the
spectators, so the arena was a meter or less in diameter, between his
hands and the viewers.

When that piece of red cloth started flapping away like a butterfly it
went outside that arena, and suddenly the arena was hundreds of meters,
or even longer, because it looked like that cloth could fly forever, to
the horizon or longer, it was just hidden from the view when a few trees
got in the way so they could not see it anymore.

Such a sudden change of the dimensions of the arena is very surprising to
the mind of the viewers.

It is important to program the motor well in such a trick. It should work
like a fisherman who pulls a bait through the water, with erratic
movements, to look like a wounded fish which swims a little, sinks a
little, over and over again.

That made the cloth look like it had wings and like it was flying like a
butterfly.

Maybe you think about magic in a very technical sense, that there should
be an impossibility which the viewers can never find out how it was done
technically. And you think that is impressive.

I think more of the momentary feeling of astonishment, and the enjoyment
of seeing something totally unbelievable. It doesn't matter to me if the
viewers easily can understand how it was done 5 minutes later, when they
have regained their senses from the shock.

Magic, to me, is entertainment, giving people a positive jolt of their
senses, followed by a happy feeling and a laugh. It must be beautiful,
simple, astonishing, and the presentation is the most important part of
the trick.

You seem to have a more technical view of magic.

When a magician hangs a seemingly empty cage from the ceiling of a
nightclub, covers it in black cloth, and seconds later removes the cloth
and there is a white tiger in the cage.. that is totally boring to me.
Anybody can do that trick, if he can afford to buy the machinery that is
needed.

 

[Guy Macon]

When a magician hangs a seemingly empty cage from the ceiling of a
nightclub, covers it in black cloth, and seconds later removes the cloth
and there is a white tiger in the cage.. that is totally boring to me.
Anybody can do that trick, if he can afford to buy the machinery that is
needed.

Go to a Penn and Teller show and try to figure out how they do it..

 

[Avi Frier]

Maybe you think about magic in a very technical sense, that there should
be an impossibility which the viewers can never find out how it was done
technically. And you think that is impressive.

I think more of the momentary feeling of astonishment, and the enjoyment
of seeing something totally unbelievable. It doesn't matter to me if the
viewers easily can understand how it was done 5 minutes later, when they
have regained their senses from the shock.

Magic, to me, is entertainment, giving people a positive jolt of their
senses, followed by a happy feeling and a laugh. It must be beautiful,
simple, astonishing, and the presentation is the most important part of
the trick.

You seem to have a more technical view of magic.

When a magician hangs a seemingly empty cage from the ceiling of a
nightclub, covers it in black cloth, and seconds later removes the cloth
and there is a white tiger in the cage.. that is totally boring to me.
Anybody can do that trick, if he can afford to buy the machinery that is
needed.

Imagine hearing someone ask this question: "Why are you wasting your time
developing your talent as a jazz musician? I personally find rock to be
much more entertaining."

I'm not a close-up magcician, I'm a stage magician. My approach is
different from others. I have done the cages, the sawing-in-half, the
yada-yada. Now I'm getting into stuff that's a little more edgy: bullet
catch, Russian roulette-style effects, and mentalism (which consists of mind
reading, and seemingly impossible predictions like one with a boom box that
I'm working on. I'll tell you about it someday...).

If all of us were making red hankies fly into the woods (or for that matter
pulling rabbits out of hats), the profession would have died quicker than
Betamax.

Avi


P.S. Before my Betamax comment inspires a flaming session, remember, I'm an
electronics layperson trying to speak a new language here. Go easy on me

 

[Rich Grise]

Ouch. I've written magazine articles, two technical books, am working
on my third (as well as another series of articles for IBM), and I
generally like writing explanations here and elsewhere. But I offered
this guy to get out of my chair and do his little project for much less
than 10k. I guess it must be because I'm not old. THAT must be the
secret. Old people must have such difficulty rising from a seated
position that they require stacks of cash - preferably in singles - to
chock them up step by step. From an engineering standpoint, that's the
most logical explanation, right?

Mr. Larwe, you've explained that your newsreader doesn't quote -
but couldn't you be so kind as to at least type in whom it is you're
responding to?

Copying and pasting some relevant text would go a long way toward
understanding what the heck you're talking about, as well, as you seem to
have done here, except with no name.

Thanks, Rich