Home made solar cells - is this real?

[siliconmike]

I found a commercial guide to make home made solar cells here:

http://www.fuellesspower.com/26_Solar_cell2.htm

I would like to know whether anyone has any experience on doing this
and whether the claims on the above website (of powering 48 Watts DC
motor) look practical.

Has anyone explored commercial use of home made screen printed solar
cells ?

Please share your experiences.

Mike

 

[Ian Stirling]

I found a commercial guide to make home made solar cells here:

http://www.fuellesspower.com/26_Solar_cell2.htm

I don't think you did.
You found a link to someone selling a copy of a patent.
Screen printing may be easy.
This does not mean that obtaining the complex chemicals needed to screen
print a solar cell will be easy.
I suspect that the patent probably won't specify the exact chemicals
either, as they haven't got it working.
Not to mention that it's actually illegal to build one for your own use
while the patent is in force.
(you are infringing hte patent by using it, even though you don't sell
it)

 

[[email protected]]

If he's in the US, builds a one off for himself and doesnt sell it or
commercially profit from it, its questionable if he violated anything.

Steve Roberts

 

[MK]

I found a commercial guide to make home made solar cells here:

http://www.fuellesspower.com/26_Solar_cell2.htm

I would like to know whether anyone has any experience on doing this
and whether the claims on the above website (of powering 48 Watts DC
motor) look practical.

Has anyone explored commercial use of home made screen printed solar
cells ?

Please share your experiences.

Mike

I wouldn't bother with the Solar cells if I were you since they only work if
the sun is shining - on the same website they have plans for the 'Fuelless
engine' which apparently provides unlimited free energy. This looks like a
much better way to waste $16.95 to me.


Michael Kellett

 

[Ian Stirling]

If he's in the US, builds a one off for himself and doesnt sell it or
commercially profit from it, its questionable if he violated anything.

AIUI - it's 'for gain'.
He gains by using a solar cell where he would otherwise need to buy one.
It's been a while since I looked at the relevant US statute though.

 

[siliconmike]

Yes its for commercial use. Anyhow theres no point in using it because
it is patented.

I'm trying to procure solar cells from a manufacturer. Most say there
is huge demand and low supply and most are booked for a long time.

Mike

 

[[email protected]]

I found a commercial guide to make home made solar cells here:

http://www.fuellesspower.com/26_Solar_cell2.htm

I would like to know whether anyone has any experience on doing this
and whether the claims on the above website (of powering 48 Watts DC
motor) look practical.

Has anyone explored commercial use of home made screen printed solar
cells ?

Please share your experiences.

Mike

There *were* plans floating around to make your own copper / copper
oxide solar cell from home, but a 2-inch square can only produce
millivolts / milliamps.

Plans involved polishing a sheet of copper, and firing a propane
blowtorch at one side to oxidize it. Then, coil a long thin strip of
wire across the red copper oxide layer, and secure in place somehow...
don't remember the details. I *think* this wire provided (+), and the
copper back of the solar cell was (-).

 

[[email protected]]

There *were* plans floating around to make your own copper / copper
oxide solar cell from home, but a 2-inch square can only produce
millivolts / milliamps.

Plans involved polishing a sheet of copper, and firing a propane
blowtorch at one side to oxidize it. Then, coil a long thin strip of
wire across the red copper oxide layer, and secure in place somehow...
don't remember the details. I *think* this wire provided (+), and the
copper back of the solar cell was (-).

Here's a variation on the idea:
http://worldwatts.com/homemade_solar_cell/homemade_solar_cell.html

Produces only microamps though... pity.

 

[Don Lancaster]

I found a commercial guide to make home made solar cells here:

http://www.fuellesspower.com/26_Solar_cell2.htm

I would like to know whether anyone has any experience on doing this
and whether the claims on the above website (of powering 48 Watts DC
motor) look practical.

Has anyone explored commercial use of home made screen printed solar
cells ?

Please share your experiences.

Mike

The "in situ" solar cell process has long been available.

See http://www.tinaja.com/glib/marcia.pdf for detailed instructions.

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[Don Lancaster]

I don't think you did.
You found a link to someone selling a copy of a patent.
Screen printing may be easy.
This does not mean that obtaining the complex chemicals needed to screen
print a solar cell will be easy.
I suspect that the patent probably won't specify the exact chemicals
either, as they haven't got it working.
Not to mention that it's actually illegal to build one for your own use
while the patent is in force.
(you are infringing hte patent by using it, even though you don't sell
it)

Not at all.
You can steal anything patented you want to at any time provided it is
for your educational self-gratification or for research.

Patent law specifically exempts such uses.

http://www.tinaja.com/patnt01.asp


--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[Don Lancaster]

If he's in the US, builds a one off for himself and doesnt sell it or
commercially profit from it, its questionable if he violated anything.

Steve Roberts

Patent law specifically excludes personal use for educational or
research purposes.

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[Don Lancaster]

Yes its for commercial use. Anyhow theres no point in using it because
it is patented.

I'm trying to procure solar cells from a manufacturer. Most say there
is huge demand and low supply and most are booked for a long time.

What possible use could you have for a solar cell?

NOT ONE NET WATTHOUR OF CONVENTIONAL SILICON PV ELECTRICITY HAS --->
EVER <--- BEEN PRODUCED.

No means is currently known of producing renewable and sustainable solar
pv NET energy. The amortization cost of the synbchronous inverter alone
is enough to GUARANTEE a net energy sink.

Although the latest in CIGS developments may eventually get us as far as
ONE THIRD of the way towards that goal.

See http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf for a detailed tutorial.

And ongoing developments in http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu06.asp



--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[Don Lancaster]

There *were* plans floating around to make your own copper / copper
oxide solar cell from home, but a 2-inch square can only produce
millivolts / milliamps.

Plans involved polishing a sheet of copper, and firing a propane
blowtorch at one side to oxidize it. Then, coil a long thin strip of
wire across the red copper oxide layer, and secure in place somehow...
don't remember the details. I *think* this wire provided (+), and the
copper back of the solar cell was (-).

The problem is efficiency.

Any pv system under six percent efficient will NEVER pay for itself
because the incoming energy gets waaaay too diffuse.

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[Ian Stirling]

Not at all.
You can steal anything patented you want to at any time provided it is
for your educational self-gratification or for research.

Patent law specifically exempts such uses.

For research, or education, yes.
In order to use it, and avoiding buying one, no.

 

[Tim Wescott]

What possible use could you have for a solar cell?

NOT ONE NET WATTHOUR OF CONVENTIONAL SILICON PV ELECTRICITY HAS --->
EVER <--- BEEN PRODUCED.

No means is currently known of producing renewable and sustainable solar
pv NET energy. The amortization cost of the synbchronous inverter alone
is enough to GUARANTEE a net energy sink.

Although the latest in CIGS developments may eventually get us as far as
ONE THIRD of the way towards that goal.

See http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf for a detailed tutorial.

And ongoing developments in http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu06.asp

Gee. Do you feel strongly about this?

I assume that by 'net watt-hour' you mean after the energy necessary to
produce the cells and associated electronics. I suspect that in many
cases you are correct. I also suspect, however, that PV cells in remote
locations do, in fact, "generate" a net positive amount of energy, if
you were to factor in the energy necessary to produce, install and
maintain mains wiring to the top of the mountain or whatever.

But I have no idea of how remote makes it "remote enough".

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Posting from Google? See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/

 

[John Jardine.]

Here's a variation on the idea:
http://worldwatts.com/homemade_solar_cell/homemade_solar_cell.html

Produces only microamps though... pity.

I cut the top off a 2N3055 transistor and from 12" shone a 60W bench light
on the now exposed silicon chip.
Maximum 110uA photo current came with an ammeter across the Collector and
the Emitter connections. (20% less current if across the base-emitter)
A 7k ohm load gave about 0.35V at 50uA. This is 17uW. Not bad!.
Increased the light collecting area by holding a X12 jewellers Loupe 1/2"
above the junction. Sadly, power output only improved to 70uW.
Disregarding the few watt-seconds needed to cut the top off the transistor,
my return on investment was a remarkable 100%.
(the 2N3055 had been given to me
john

 

[Don Lancaster]

Gee. Do you feel strongly about this?

I assume that by 'net watt-hour' you mean after the energy necessary to
produce the cells and associated electronics. I suspect that in many
cases you are correct. I also suspect, however, that PV cells in remote
locations do, in fact, "generate" a net positive amount of energy, if
you were to factor in the energy necessary to produce, install and
maintain mains wiring to the top of the mountain or whatever.

But I have no idea of how remote makes it "remote enough".

A country mile is not nearly enough.

See http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf for a tutorial.

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[Rich Grise]

What possible use could you have for a solar cell?

NOT ONE NET WATTHOUR OF CONVENTIONAL SILICON PV ELECTRICITY HAS --->
EVER <--- BEEN PRODUCED.

No means is currently known of producing renewable and sustainable solar
pv NET energy. The amortization cost of the synbchronous inverter alone
is enough to GUARANTEE a net energy sink.

Although the latest in CIGS developments may eventually get us as far as
ONE THIRD of the way towards that goal.

See http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf for a detailed tutorial.

And ongoing developments in http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu06.asp

You sound like you need to get into your time machine and join the guy
in 1889 who wanted to close the patent office because everything that
could possibly ever be invented had been.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

For research, or education, yes.
In order to use it, and avoiding buying one, no.

Hey, I'm doing research, and being educated {in spades!] even as we "speak"!

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Don Lancaster]

You sound like you need to get into your time machine and join the guy
in 1889 who wanted to close the patent office because everything that
could possibly ever be invented had been.

Thanks,
Rich

I have no problem with legitimate alternate energy developments.

I do have problems with those based on an outright lie (such as net
energy sink conventional silicon pv panels).

And with individuals who refuse to accept that there is a fundamental
thermodynamic reason involving exergy why electrolysis for bulk hydrogen
energy flat out ain't gonna happen.

As per http://www.tinaja.com/glib/muse153.pdf

New CIGS pv developments MIGHT get us as much as ONE THIRD of the way
towards net energy renewability and sustainability. But further dinking
with spread or multiple workfunctions plus increased efficiency will be
needed to get within shouting distance.

My own positive energy contributions appear at
http://www.tinaja.com/glib/magsn01.asp

I am, of course, emphatically in favor of closing the patent office.
This should have been done a long time ago.

http://www.tinaja.com/patnt01.asp


--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com