GE 8mm camcorder has snow in picutre, help w/diagnosing problem

[Mike F]

True, true...

However, I don't think that Mt St Helens caused lab rats to grow second
tails or third ears...

Freon did have it's dark side.

Considering the construction "quality" of some of today's consumer gear (and
even some "pro" gear) Freon may just be a little too "industrial" in nature.

Merry and Happy...

Jay B

True, but the tree huggers are trying to get a law passed to make it illegal
for Mt. St. Helens to give off any more gas .. still trying to figure out
who
is responsible though ...
(check out the Mt. St. Helens cam -- cool pix and they have some
short movies of some of the past "eruptions")
http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/volcanocams/msh/

mikey

 

[James Sweet]

True, but the tree huggers are trying to get a law passed to make it illegal
for Mt. St. Helens to give off any more gas .. still trying to figure out
who
is responsible though ...

Huh? Is it "tree huggers" or just someone trying to be cute? There was a
reasonably well publicized gag a few years ago where someone was pushing for
a ban on "di-hydrogen monoxide" and actually succeeded in getting a
ridiculous number of signatures.

 

[Mike Kohary]

In a few hours, Mt. St. Helens just north of town here put more
greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere than 1000 years of using
Freon to clean electronic parts. But, alas, its no longer politically
correct to observe that Freon was such a great cleaner/solvent.

Freon <> greenhouse gasses. Learn what you're talking about before
speaking.

By the way, this year's ozone hole over the Antarctic will set a new
record. What part of that involves being "politically correct"?

Learn science, it's good for you.

Mike

 

[James]

Freon isn't a greenhouse gas, it reacts with ozone and is the cause of the
large hole above the arctic.

Kindly demonstrate proof that use of freon "caused" the hole in the ozone,
and that it wasn't already there and doesn't fluctuate in size on it's own
due to natural forces.

Science quiz, do you know where ozone comes from?

 

[Jim Adney]

Kindly demonstrate proof that use of freon "caused" the hole in the ozone,
and that it wasn't already there and doesn't fluctuate in size on it's own
due to natural forces.

You might want to read several articals in Physics Today in the last
few years. I'm only familiar with those because that's one I get, but
I'm sure that there are other scientific journals that have detailed
the chemistry that is responsible for these reactions. The process has
been well known in the scientific community for more than 20 years.

It remains a political question mark simply because it is inconvenient
to some parts of the political spectrum, mostly the same people that
have trouble with evolution, the heliocentric solar system, and the
concept of a round earth.

Ozone concentrations over both poles has been tracked for many years.
Naturally there is a normal variation from year to year, but the
current trend is way outside the norm.

Ozone concentrations over the north pole have also been tracked for
the same amount of time, but until recently there was never a "hole"
there. Now we have an annual hole. This is a distinct change.

Science quiz, do you know where ozone comes from?

Ozone is created normally in the upper atmosphere from the ionization
of O2 by the solar wind.

Ozone in the lower atmosphere, from automobile exhaust, etc, makes its
way to the upper atmosphere only very slowly.

-

 

[James Sweet]

Kindly demonstrate proof that use of freon "caused" the hole in the ozone,
and that it wasn't already there and doesn't fluctuate in size on it's own
due to natural forces.

Science quiz, do you know where ozone comes from?

Ozone is caused by diatomic oxygen molecules being busted apart by shortwave
UV light, they then recombine into Ozone (O3).

I can't *prove* that freon "caused" the ozone hole any more than I can
personally "prove" that the earth is round or that the moon is not made of
cheese, but it's widely accepted to be a substantial contributor. Yeah
there's a lot of BS environmental hysteria out there but there's some
substance to some of it. A quick google search brings up hundreds of links
to various reading. If the internet is not considered a trustworthy source
there's plenty of respected scientific books and magazines with coverage of
the subject at most libraries.

Since the manufacture of CFC's was banned in the US the world has not fallen
apart, technology has come to the rescue and developed suitable substitutes.

 

[Big Bill]

You might want to read several articals in Physics Today in the last
few years. I'm only familiar with those because that's one I get, but
I'm sure that there are other scientific journals that have detailed
the chemistry that is responsible for these reactions. The process has
been well known in the scientific community for more than 20 years.

It remains a political question mark simply because it is inconvenient
to some parts of the political spectrum, mostly the same people that
have trouble with evolution, the heliocentric solar system, and the
concept of a round earth.

Ozone concentrations over both poles has been tracked for many years.
Naturally there is a normal variation from year to year, but the
current trend is way outside the norm.

Ozone concentrations over the north pole have also been tracked for
the same amount of time, but until recently there was never a "hole"
there. Now we have an annual hole. This is a distinct change.

It's a distinct change *over the period of time we've been measuring.*
We havn't been measuring even an eyeblink of time yet, so all we know
is that it's a change in extremely recent history.
We have absolutely no idea of how much the ozone layers have changed
over even the last century, much less long enough to make some sort of
rational claim of an abnormal change over a long period if time.
Maybe when we have been measuring the ozone layers for even as short a
time as 50 years, we might find a cycle that's simply repeating.
But to make such a claim with such an extremely short data gathering
period is simply bad science.

 

[NSM]

| On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 21:41:29 -0600, Jim Adney <[email protected]>
| wrote:
|
....
| >Ozone concentrations over the north pole have also been tracked for
| >the same amount of time, but until recently there was never a "hole"
| >there. Now we have an annual hole. This is a distinct change.
|
| It's a distinct change *over the period of time we've been measuring.*
| We havn't been measuring even an eyeblink of time yet, so all we know
| is that it's a change in extremely recent history.
....

But when the incoming wave is 50 feet high it's not a good time to assume
it's part of a normal cycle.

N

 

[Carl]

Kindly demonstrate proof that use of freon "caused" the hole in the ozone,
and that it wasn't already there and doesn't fluctuate in size on it's own
due to natural forces.

Science quiz, do you know where ozone comes from?

You might try these sites to start with:

http://www.uneptie.org/ozonaction/compliance/ozonews/02Oct15.html
http://www.epa.gov/docs/ozone/title6/609/consumers/cons2.html
http://www.ausetute.com.au/cfcozone.html

After that there are literally hundreds of Scientific papers on the
subject. This is why refrigerator companies eventually replaced the CFCs
they used in the cooling systems of fridges and why there are so many
controls on the methods used in the production of Printed Circuit
boards, for example

I suspect that you must be the only person left in the free world that
doesn't know that chlorofluorocarbons (of which Freon is a major member
of the group)have been primarily responsible for the hole in the Ozone
Layer - which incidentally didn't exist prior to 1976.

 

[Big Bill]

| On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 21:41:29 -0600, Jim Adney <[email protected]>
| wrote:
|
...
| >Ozone concentrations over the north pole have also been tracked for
| >the same amount of time, but until recently there was never a "hole"
| >there. Now we have an annual hole. This is a distinct change.
|
| It's a distinct change *over the period of time we've been measuring.*
| We havn't been measuring even an eyeblink of time yet, so all we know
| is that it's a change in extremely recent history.
...

But when the incoming wave is 50 feet high it's not a good time to assume
it's part of a normal cycle.

N

What incomng wave would that be?
What does this mean? That you think there's going to be a 50 foot wave
somewhere caused by a hole inthe ozone layer?
Let's at least *try* to maintain some sort of level of sanity here;
the type of chicken-little hyperbole you are trying to pass off only
makes you look like you don't understand the situation, and are trying
to scare people into your view.

 

[Mike Kohary]

Kindly demonstrate proof that use of freon "caused" the hole in the ozone,
and that it wasn't already there and doesn't fluctuate in size on it's own
due to natural forces.

It's not a fact in dispute - go look it up for yourself.

Mike
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Kohary mike at kohary dot com http://www.kohary.com

Karma Photography: http://www.karmaphotography.com
Seahawks Historical Database: http://www.kohary.com/seahawks
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Leonard Caillouet]

Actually, the "hole" is over the Antarctic, not the arctic and does
fluctuate naturally. The problem with CFCs is that they are quite effective
at destroying ozone and are much more stable, so they stay in the atmosphere
for a long time. While they cannot be blamed for the existence of the ozone
hole, it seems foolish to keep producing and using substances known to have
such a profound and damaging effect, when substitutes are available.


Leonard Caillouet

....I'd like to find you inner child and kick its little ass. Get over it...
(The Eagles)

 

[NSM]

| >But when the incoming wave is 50 feet high it's not a good time to assume
| >it's part of a normal cycle.
| >
| What incomng wave would that be?

I'm sorry. I thought you were aware of the concepts of 'Ocean', 'Beach' and
'Wave. My bad for assuming that your intelligence was above that of a Jell-O
pudding.


| What does this mean? That you think there's going to be a 50 foot wave
| somewhere caused by a hole inthe ozone layer?
| Let's at least *try* to maintain some sort of level of sanity here;
| the type of chicken-little hyperbole you are trying to pass off only
| makes you look like you don't understand the situation, and are trying
| to scare people into your view.
|
| --
| Bill Funk
| Change "g" to "a"

 

[James]

It's not a fact in dispute - go look it up for yourself.

Not unless by "in dispute" you mean there's disagreement on the subject. If
you can tear yourself away from that tree you're hugging, put on your
Birkenstocks and look around, you'll find plenty of dispute on the topic.

 

[Mike Kohary]

Not unless by "in dispute" you mean there's disagreement on the subject.

It's not in dispute in the scientific community.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Kohary mike at kohary dot com http://www.kohary.com

Karma Photography: http://www.karmaphotography.com
Seahawks Historical Database: http://www.kohary.com/seahawks
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[James]

It's not in dispute in the scientific community.

Ah, Mike Kohary, official voice of "The Scientific Community". And pray
tell, what is your official place in "The Scientific Community"? Looking at
your website - electric guitar, computer programming, video game nerd,
drinker of Samuel Adams, film buff - but gotta be honest chief, your
scientific credentials don't quite jump out from the page. Amazing that
there's no links, not even a mention of any interest or training in
environmental or any other science, chemistry, physics etc. considering this
keen interest/knowledge you seem to claim.

Couldn't be that you're simply spouting emotional rhetoric could it?

 

[Fitpix]

It's not in dispute in the scientific community.
--

Mike...we're in the playoffs...step away from the trollls......step away

 

[Carl]

Mike...we're in the playoffs...step away from the trollls......step away

'Tis the season to be Troll-y,
Trala lala la, lala la la..."

then there's always the evergreen favourite, "Jingle Trolls"
or "Good King Wenceslas last Trolled out.."

 

[Big Bill]

| >But when the incoming wave is 50 feet high it's not a good time to assume
| >it's part of a normal cycle.
| >
| What incomng wave would that be?

I'm sorry. I thought you were aware of the concepts of 'Ocean', 'Beach' and
'Wave. My bad for assuming that your intelligence was above that of a Jell-O
pudding.

I am aware of such things. I'm trying to understand where this 50 foot
wave would come from.
Do you expect me to believe that a hole on the ozone layer would
somehow cause a 50 foot wave?
If so, would you please explain the mechanics behind this?

 

[Big Bill]

It's not a fact in dispute - go look it up for yourself.

Actually, it *is* in dispute.
While we can *model* such, that doesn't mean it's happening the way
the model says it *can* happen.
And it's also in *much* dispute that the holes are anything other than
a natural thing hat we've never noticed before simply because we
havn't been monitoring the ozone levels for very long.