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fluorescent lighting

C

chris

Jan 1, 1970
0
does anybody know where (on the web) i can get
specific information about the duty cycle and
efficiency information for fluorescent lighting.

ie, where is the break point between turning lights
off/on and leaving them on?


my office has been redone and now there are motion
sensors on the office lights to save energy. i would
contest that these sensors waste more energy than not.
people now leave their office lights on when they leave
thinking the sensors will turn them off. so for the rest of the day
and night people staying late and the cleaning
crew trip the sensors. The lights are then turned
on and off for hours. This can not be better than people
just turning off their lights, even after you account
for some % of people forgetting to do that.
 
S

SQLit

Jan 1, 1970
0
chris said:
does anybody know where (on the web) i can get
specific information about the duty cycle and
efficiency information for fluorescent lighting.

ie, where is the break point between turning lights
off/on and leaving them on?


my office has been redone and now there are motion
sensors on the office lights to save energy. i would
contest that these sensors waste more energy than not.
people now leave their office lights on when they leave
thinking the sensors will turn them off. so for the rest of the day
and night people staying late and the cleaning
crew trip the sensors. The lights are then turned
on and off for hours. This can not be better than people
just turning off their lights, even after you account
for some % of people forgetting to do that.

I did 5 buildings at a "U" we saved in the neighbor hood of 30% on the
lighting. We upgraded the lighting to t-8's from the old t-12's. The new
ballasts used a tad less electricity. Hallways were a big saver not so much
in the day time but in the night time. Once the cleaning crews were gone the
lights were off. Our system might be different that yours. We removed all of
the light switches, so the motion sensors worked the lighting.
Lecture halls were the one of the very few places where there were switches
left after our upgrade.
Once the industry changed over to electronic ballasts the on and off
nonsense when away. Besides the technology on the lamps is a lot better than
before.
 
M

Mike Swift

Jan 1, 1970
0
SQLit said:
I did 5 buildings at a "U" we saved in the neighbor hood of 30% on the
lighting. We upgraded the lighting to t-8's from the old t-12's. The new
ballasts used a tad less electricity. Hallways were a big saver not so much
in the day time but in the night time. Once the cleaning crews were gone the
lights were off. Our system might be different that yours. We removed all of
the light switches, so the motion sensors worked the lighting.
Lecture halls were the one of the very few places where there were switches
left after our upgrade.
Once the industry changed over to electronic ballasts the on and off
nonsense when away. Besides the technology on the lamps is a lot better than
before.

A lot of noise has been made about the power used to start both
incandescent and fluorescent lamps, however there is very little extra
power used to start lamps compared to running them. Incandescent lamps
draw 4 to 5 times their running power when starting up, but if you go
through the numbers the increase caused by say 5 cycles at 500% of rated
power and then 3600 cycles (one minute at 60 Hz) at rated power the
increase in power is far less than one percent.
 
chris said:
...where is the break point between turning lights
off/on and leaving them on?

There's a small tradeoff between bulb life and energy. Each start removes
about 6 minutes from a fluorescent's 20K hour lifetime. If replacing a bulb
costs $2, each start costs $0.00001. Perhaps a bit more, with startup stress
on an electronic ballast.

Nick
 
G

Gymy Bob

Jan 1, 1970
0
Wow! Can you get these for $2 each? ohh..you not talking CF then?
 
Wow! Can you get these for $2 each? ohh..you not talking CF then?

I got several from menards' for a buck. It was a government sponsored
thing. I saw them again recently for $2 for the 13 watt.

Bill
 
G

Gymy Bob

Jan 1, 1970
0
Wow, the best I have seen was $15 for four 9W units but the colouring was
terrible. Some new cheap brand. Probably only last a year or so.
 
G

Gordon Richmond

Jan 1, 1970
0
Just bought 4 13W CF bulbs from Canadian Tire for about $12. Brand is
GE, and each appears to have 3 individual U-shaped tubes, spaced
around the perimeter of the base.

Incidentally, one of my no-name CFs that I bought about 2 years ago
bit the big one the other day. No fireworks, it just failed to light
one day. I took it apart (who could resist), and could find nothing
cooked inside. What I did find is that one filament has continuity,
and one does not. That probably explains the failure...

Gordon Richmond
 
R

Richard P.

Jan 1, 1970
0
I can't wait to see the response to that question. ;-)
 
G

Gymy Bob

Jan 1, 1970
0
I don't see anything too exciting to your response so far.

LOL
 
M

m II

Jan 1, 1970
0
Gymy said:
oooops. A flourescent with a filament?


Thanks Gymy..you came through just in time. I thought perhaps you'd miss
today's deadline.

Thank you



--
My 'GymBobism' collection...updated daily:
=========================================
##some '#' bracketed text added for clarification##



We need less morons like another clone of Moron II here. ##My fifteen
minutes of FAME!##

You sure spent a lot of time trying to convince me you don't knwo what I am
talking about...LOL

At 11.6 volts a 12v battery is about 50-70% charged still.

Polish solar panels are what americans called "flashlights"

Propane will disapate and freeze when it evaporates.

Gasoline is not nearly as volatile as hydrogen.

Many people have browsers that economize the download

Try to stay on topic and on thread too bean brain.

Perhaps try Outlook Express or another browser that knows how to thread
posts.

Let's say youre solar cell was trying to put out
14.3 volts DC and you stuck a 10 ohm meter in series with a charged 13.8
volt DC battery.

This is power grid induction through capacitive proximity

You can get fooled with another ground in the house finding it's way back to
the transformer neutral.

A thought I have is rain water from a roof on a three story home through a
micro-turbine.

Setback thermostats only work efficiently for small differentials, dependant
on the time duration.

Breakers are good for one time usage of one fault and then they need to be
replaced for any warrantied usage.

If the breaker interupts a fault, it should be replaced.No warranty will
honoured after that.

I don't have a link at this time

There are no hydrogen molecules in water and the oxygen in water isn't
flammable either.

Water is inert and contains no energy to be used. Get some basic chemistry
first.

Quite simply put, for some of the boneheads here.

NiCads and NiMh batterries are designed to take a current charge forever.

Did they have electricity back in 1994?

I have been around so long with this stuff I believe I invented the diode in
1941 but I am not familiar with the solar panel usage requirements of them.
(no P & N substrate explanations please. I wrote the GE manual...LOL)

NOTE: do not pass ground wires through metal holes or cable clamps with two
screws on a metal surface.

There is **NOT*** enough energy in a lightning bolt to power your house for
more than an hour...if that. Do the math.
The figures escape me but let's say it puts out a roughly MWatt of power for
100 nanoseconds?
100 x 10-9 x 1 x 106 / 3600 (sec/hr) = 0.0027 wH
oooops.... Wouldn't light your home for a 1/2 second.
OK..OK.. multiply the figures time 100 or 1000. Now it would light a 100W
bulb for 1 second.

The IEEE-232 standards were never followed or known by many.

Fossil fuels are still renewable and being cxreated as we speak.

Children are venerially created.

If you want to discuss this then fine, otherwise go **** yourself like your
mother did.

Can you let go of my dick before it explodes on ya, goofball?

Petroleum is not related to Natural gas.

I would rather work at my $100/hour job than at chopping wood for hours to
save $3/hour

I have no license, I wire and inspect other's wiring for a job and work for
a medium size electrical utility.

The majority prefers top posting.

Get your tear ducts flushed by a knowledgeable optometrist.

Not many materials have the huge exponential resistance/heat curve aluminum
does. Overload doesn't make it glow like copper...it flashes and explodes.

A bathroom fan motor would never push hot air down ten feet or cold up ten
feet.

Bathroom fans have a hard time pushing 55 cfm through a 3-4" pipe 20
horizontal feet. They are made to vent smells and humid air horizontally
only.

Why not spend the money on a contract with the grid company and get an
exclusive line to your house and never have brownouts.

Usenet rules dictate top posting for readability

Many cell modems are set up to filter bottom posts out.

Cell modems do not cut off anything.

What security flaws. ##referring to Outlook Express##

Bottom posting was the was in the 70s and 80s before threading browsers were
available cheap like OE

What is a PMW?

10 pounds per gallon Imperial. That gallon is totally unique to the
US....ooops..I think all gallons are unique to the US now.

The standard Imperial gallon the whole world used weighs 10 pounds exactly.

The copper isn't worth more than 5 cents per pound. It is classed a mixed
copper and nobody wants it.

Hey moron! The copper is considered "mixed" copper and is worth about $0.02
per pound, if he seperates it all.

Just don't ever lose weight. Toxins are stored in your fat cells.

Did you know, **NO***, I repeat ***NO*** death has ever been related to
PCBs?

Insulated square copper wires from a dry transformer are not 99% copper and
take a lot of work to remove the insulation.

I have tonnes of insulated copper wire if you want it. I think you could
almost have for the picking it up. How many bins can you take per year

50 lbs? We have it by the bin full. Mostly #6 to 650 MCM. I beleive you
would have to leave a bin and then pick it up full later to compete with the
current scrapper.

Can't this tranformer be used by somebody to generate a second 120V from a
single phase 120V inverter? It sounds pretty beefy.

BTW: once you knock the wedge out of the coil form the laminations will be
easier to get out. This keeps them from buzzing until the varnish and other
impregnations go into it.

All you guys have a bad Christmas or Jewish and didn't see Santa or something?

Run each signal twisted with a ground for noise. RD twisted with gnd as a
pair, TD twisted around ground as a pair etc... This means signal/logic
ground not power ground or case ground, if they are different. Do not
connect the other ends of the ground conductors.

Tar pitch in a flourescent ballast does ***NOT*** contain PCBs and probably
never did.

Religion is not genetic or even herodigious

I believe the warmest part of the lake is just below the ice. As the water
frezes it rises to the top and joins the other ice formations.

Gel cell won't cut it when it comes to putting out 100A or more. They cook
in one spot and the rest of the electrolyte doesn't circulate fast enough.

There is nothing standard about USanian measurements. They changed their
sizes to avoid trading with the rest of the world. This worked for a few
centuries but the rest of the world moved on to the metric system to avert
the confusion the US caused.

Ever put your ohmmeter (do I need to explain an ohmmeter also?) across a
capacitor? It measures infinity after charging to the supply voltage because
the electrolyte is an insulator.

Electrolytes are not conductors of electricity in a capacitor.

If the electrolyte conducted it would be a resistor.

I doubt they are 4 farads. More likely 4 microfarads uf. ##referring to
4000mfd caps##

Sometimes it is an ego boost to have these so-called "professionals" come
and beg for information because they can't our toys do what the good guys
can but I would never hire them given a choice.

Do you measure altitude in degrees? Many aeronautical people would disagree
with you. ##referring to solar azimuth/altitude thread##

My house is filled with motion detectors. They don't all operate lights.
They mostly signal my house control computer and it decides what to do and when.

Enlighten please (like it really matters...LOL)

As a design engineer of transformers for 10 years I happen to know you are
full of shit.

A 50Hz transformer needs double the iron a 60Hz transformer needs for the
same VA capacity.

Moving a kill-a-watt unit around is like using it on somebody else's house
and telling the person's load.

oooops. A flourescent with a filament? **not knowing how fluorescents start
up**
 
L

Landline

Jan 1, 1970
0
Where's George Ghio when you need him
George must be missing in action
 
Thanks Gymy..you came through just in time. I thought perhaps you'd miss
today's deadline.

Thank you
Except for cold cathode units, MOST flourescents have a heater
fillament at both ends that is energized to start the bulb. That's why
there are 4 wires. Low voltage across both pairs for the filament, and
high voltage between the pairs to charge the gas in the bulb and make
it flouresce
 
Except for cold cathode units, MOST flourescents have a heater
fillament at both ends that is energized to start the bulb. That's why
there are 4 wires. Low voltage across both pairs for the filament, and
high voltage between the pairs to charge the gas in the bulb and make
it flouresce

Okay.. okay.. I know it's picky.. but.
The gas in the bulb does not flouresce, it drops in excitation and
radiates photons in the uv energy band. There is a phosphor compound
on the inside of the glass envelope which aborbs the uv and reemits
photons in the visible spectrum. Various mfgs use different phosphor
compounds to attain a white light simulation by mixing colors.
 
Okay.. okay.. I know it's picky.. but.
The gas in the bulb does not flouresce, it drops in excitation and
radiates photons in the uv energy band. There is a phosphor compound
on the inside of the glass envelope which aborbs the uv and reemits
photons in the visible spectrum. Various mfgs use different phosphor
compounds to attain a white light simulation by mixing colors.


Hate to be picky back, but I did not say the "gas" flouresced. I said
it charged the gas in the bulb and made "it", the bulb, flouresce.
 
S

Sylvan Butler

Jan 1, 1970
0
Except for cold cathode units, MOST flourescents have a heater
fillament at both ends that is energized to start the bulb. That's why
there are 4 wires. Low voltage across both pairs for the filament, and

I think that "MOST" means the tubes 4ft and shorter, right?

The 8ft, T12 tubes only have one contact on each end (about 1/4"
diameter, protuding 3/8" from the end cap). Do those tubes just strike
an arc thru the gas? Or what? ISTR they are classified as "rapid" or
"instant" start... And perhaps a lot of CF tubes are this sort as well.

sdb
 
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