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fluorescent lighting

Discussion in 'Home Power and Microgeneration' started by chris, Jan 10, 2005.

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  1. chris

    chris Guest

    does anybody know where (on the web) i can get
    specific information about the duty cycle and
    efficiency information for fluorescent lighting.

    ie, where is the break point between turning lights
    off/on and leaving them on?

    my office has been redone and now there are motion
    sensors on the office lights to save energy. i would
    contest that these sensors waste more energy than not.
    people now leave their office lights on when they leave
    thinking the sensors will turn them off. so for the rest of the day
    and night people staying late and the cleaning
    crew trip the sensors. The lights are then turned
    on and off for hours. This can not be better than people
    just turning off their lights, even after you account
    for some % of people forgetting to do that.
  2. SQLit

    SQLit Guest

    I did 5 buildings at a "U" we saved in the neighbor hood of 30% on the
    lighting. We upgraded the lighting to t-8's from the old t-12's. The new
    ballasts used a tad less electricity. Hallways were a big saver not so much
    in the day time but in the night time. Once the cleaning crews were gone the
    lights were off. Our system might be different that yours. We removed all of
    the light switches, so the motion sensors worked the lighting.
    Lecture halls were the one of the very few places where there were switches
    left after our upgrade.
    Once the industry changed over to electronic ballasts the on and off
    nonsense when away. Besides the technology on the lamps is a lot better than
  3. Mike Swift

    Mike Swift Guest

    A lot of noise has been made about the power used to start both
    incandescent and fluorescent lamps, however there is very little extra
    power used to start lamps compared to running them. Incandescent lamps
    draw 4 to 5 times their running power when starting up, but if you go
    through the numbers the increase caused by say 5 cycles at 500% of rated
    power and then 3600 cycles (one minute at 60 Hz) at rated power the
    increase in power is far less than one percent.
  4. Guest

    There's a small tradeoff between bulb life and energy. Each start removes
    about 6 minutes from a fluorescent's 20K hour lifetime. If replacing a bulb
    costs $2, each start costs $0.00001. Perhaps a bit more, with startup stress
    on an electronic ballast.

  5. Gymy Bob

    Gymy Bob Guest

    Wow! Can you get these for $2 each? not talking CF then?
  6. Steve Spence

    Steve Spence Guest

  7. Guest

    I got several from menards' for a buck. It was a government sponsored
    thing. I saw them again recently for $2 for the 13 watt.

  8. Gymy Bob

    Gymy Bob Guest

    Wow, the best I have seen was $15 for four 9W units but the colouring was
    terrible. Some new cheap brand. Probably only last a year or so.
  9. Just bought 4 13W CF bulbs from Canadian Tire for about $12. Brand is
    GE, and each appears to have 3 individual U-shaped tubes, spaced
    around the perimeter of the base.

    Incidentally, one of my no-name CFs that I bought about 2 years ago
    bit the big one the other day. No fireworks, it just failed to light
    one day. I took it apart (who could resist), and could find nothing
    cooked inside. What I did find is that one filament has continuity,
    and one does not. That probably explains the failure...

    Gordon Richmond
  10. Steve Spence

    Steve Spence Guest

    yes, fluorescents have heating elements in the ends. How did you think
    they fire up?

    Steve Spence
    Dir., Green Trust
  11. Richard P.

    Richard P. Guest

    I can't wait to see the response to that question. ;-)
  12. Gymy Bob

    Gymy Bob Guest

    I don't see anything too exciting to your response so far.

  13. m II

    m II Guest

    Thanks came through just in time. I thought perhaps you'd miss
    today's deadline.

    Thank you

    My 'GymBobism' collection...updated daily:
    ##some '#' bracketed text added for clarification##

    We need less morons like another clone of Moron II here. ##My fifteen
    minutes of FAME!##

    You sure spent a lot of time trying to convince me you don't knwo what I am
    talking about...LOL

    At 11.6 volts a 12v battery is about 50-70% charged still.

    Polish solar panels are what americans called "flashlights"

    Propane will disapate and freeze when it evaporates.

    Gasoline is not nearly as volatile as hydrogen.

    Many people have browsers that economize the download

    Try to stay on topic and on thread too bean brain.

    Perhaps try Outlook Express or another browser that knows how to thread

    Let's say youre solar cell was trying to put out
    14.3 volts DC and you stuck a 10 ohm meter in series with a charged 13.8
    volt DC battery.

    This is power grid induction through capacitive proximity

    You can get fooled with another ground in the house finding it's way back to
    the transformer neutral.

    A thought I have is rain water from a roof on a three story home through a

    Setback thermostats only work efficiently for small differentials, dependant
    on the time duration.

    Breakers are good for one time usage of one fault and then they need to be
    replaced for any warrantied usage.

    If the breaker interupts a fault, it should be replaced.No warranty will
    honoured after that.

    I don't have a link at this time

    There are no hydrogen molecules in water and the oxygen in water isn't
    flammable either.

    Water is inert and contains no energy to be used. Get some basic chemistry

    Quite simply put, for some of the boneheads here.

    NiCads and NiMh batterries are designed to take a current charge forever.

    Did they have electricity back in 1994?

    I have been around so long with this stuff I believe I invented the diode in
    1941 but I am not familiar with the solar panel usage requirements of them.
    (no P & N substrate explanations please. I wrote the GE manual...LOL)

    NOTE: do not pass ground wires through metal holes or cable clamps with two
    screws on a metal surface.

    There is **NOT*** enough energy in a lightning bolt to power your house for
    more than an hour...if that. Do the math.
    The figures escape me but let's say it puts out a roughly MWatt of power for
    100 nanoseconds?
    100 x 10-9 x 1 x 106 / 3600 (sec/hr) = 0.0027 wH
    oooops.... Wouldn't light your home for a 1/2 second.
    OK..OK.. multiply the figures time 100 or 1000. Now it would light a 100W
    bulb for 1 second.

    The IEEE-232 standards were never followed or known by many.

    Fossil fuels are still renewable and being cxreated as we speak.

    Children are venerially created.

    If you want to discuss this then fine, otherwise go **** yourself like your
    mother did.

    Can you let go of my dick before it explodes on ya, goofball?

    Petroleum is not related to Natural gas.

    I would rather work at my $100/hour job than at chopping wood for hours to
    save $3/hour

    I have no license, I wire and inspect other's wiring for a job and work for
    a medium size electrical utility.

    The majority prefers top posting.

    Get your tear ducts flushed by a knowledgeable optometrist.

    Not many materials have the huge exponential resistance/heat curve aluminum
    does. Overload doesn't make it glow like flashes and explodes.

    A bathroom fan motor would never push hot air down ten feet or cold up ten

    Bathroom fans have a hard time pushing 55 cfm through a 3-4" pipe 20
    horizontal feet. They are made to vent smells and humid air horizontally

    Why not spend the money on a contract with the grid company and get an
    exclusive line to your house and never have brownouts.

    Usenet rules dictate top posting for readability

    Many cell modems are set up to filter bottom posts out.

    Cell modems do not cut off anything.

    What security flaws. ##referring to Outlook Express##

    Bottom posting was the was in the 70s and 80s before threading browsers were
    available cheap like OE

    What is a PMW?

    10 pounds per gallon Imperial. That gallon is totally unique to the
    US....ooops..I think all gallons are unique to the US now.

    The standard Imperial gallon the whole world used weighs 10 pounds exactly.

    The copper isn't worth more than 5 cents per pound. It is classed a mixed
    copper and nobody wants it.

    Hey moron! The copper is considered "mixed" copper and is worth about $0.02
    per pound, if he seperates it all.

    Just don't ever lose weight. Toxins are stored in your fat cells.

    Did you know, **NO***, I repeat ***NO*** death has ever been related to

    Insulated square copper wires from a dry transformer are not 99% copper and
    take a lot of work to remove the insulation.

    I have tonnes of insulated copper wire if you want it. I think you could
    almost have for the picking it up. How many bins can you take per year

    50 lbs? We have it by the bin full. Mostly #6 to 650 MCM. I beleive you
    would have to leave a bin and then pick it up full later to compete with the
    current scrapper.

    Can't this tranformer be used by somebody to generate a second 120V from a
    single phase 120V inverter? It sounds pretty beefy.

    BTW: once you knock the wedge out of the coil form the laminations will be
    easier to get out. This keeps them from buzzing until the varnish and other
    impregnations go into it.

    All you guys have a bad Christmas or Jewish and didn't see Santa or something?

    Run each signal twisted with a ground for noise. RD twisted with gnd as a
    pair, TD twisted around ground as a pair etc... This means signal/logic
    ground not power ground or case ground, if they are different. Do not
    connect the other ends of the ground conductors.

    Tar pitch in a flourescent ballast does ***NOT*** contain PCBs and probably
    never did.

    Religion is not genetic or even herodigious

    I believe the warmest part of the lake is just below the ice. As the water
    frezes it rises to the top and joins the other ice formations.

    Gel cell won't cut it when it comes to putting out 100A or more. They cook
    in one spot and the rest of the electrolyte doesn't circulate fast enough.

    There is nothing standard about USanian measurements. They changed their
    sizes to avoid trading with the rest of the world. This worked for a few
    centuries but the rest of the world moved on to the metric system to avert
    the confusion the US caused.

    Ever put your ohmmeter (do I need to explain an ohmmeter also?) across a
    capacitor? It measures infinity after charging to the supply voltage because
    the electrolyte is an insulator.

    Electrolytes are not conductors of electricity in a capacitor.

    If the electrolyte conducted it would be a resistor.

    I doubt they are 4 farads. More likely 4 microfarads uf. ##referring to
    4000mfd caps##

    Sometimes it is an ego boost to have these so-called "professionals" come
    and beg for information because they can't our toys do what the good guys
    can but I would never hire them given a choice.

    Do you measure altitude in degrees? Many aeronautical people would disagree
    with you. ##referring to solar azimuth/altitude thread##

    My house is filled with motion detectors. They don't all operate lights.
    They mostly signal my house control computer and it decides what to do and when.

    Enlighten please (like it really matters...LOL)

    As a design engineer of transformers for 10 years I happen to know you are
    full of shit.

    A 50Hz transformer needs double the iron a 60Hz transformer needs for the
    same VA capacity.

    Moving a kill-a-watt unit around is like using it on somebody else's house
    and telling the person's load.

    oooops. A flourescent with a filament? **not knowing how fluorescents start
  14. Landline

    Landline Guest

    Where's George Ghio when you need him
    George must be missing in action
  15. Guest

    Except for cold cathode units, MOST flourescents have a heater
    fillament at both ends that is energized to start the bulb. That's why
    there are 4 wires. Low voltage across both pairs for the filament, and
    high voltage between the pairs to charge the gas in the bulb and make
    it flouresce
  16. Guest

    Okay.. okay.. I know it's picky.. but.
    The gas in the bulb does not flouresce, it drops in excitation and
    radiates photons in the uv energy band. There is a phosphor compound
    on the inside of the glass envelope which aborbs the uv and reemits
    photons in the visible spectrum. Various mfgs use different phosphor
    compounds to attain a white light simulation by mixing colors.
  17. Guest

    Hate to be picky back, but I did not say the "gas" flouresced. I said
    it charged the gas in the bulb and made "it", the bulb, flouresce.
  18. Guest

    Then you get a C on your English. :)
  19. m II

    m II Guest

    This is getting WAY out of hand..You're both discharged..

  20. I think that "MOST" means the tubes 4ft and shorter, right?

    The 8ft, T12 tubes only have one contact on each end (about 1/4"
    diameter, protuding 3/8" from the end cap). Do those tubes just strike
    an arc thru the gas? Or what? ISTR they are classified as "rapid" or
    "instant" start... And perhaps a lot of CF tubes are this sort as well.

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