Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Doubling capacitors in flash?

Status
Not open for further replies.

nebojsa

May 13, 2017
40
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
40
Hello...
I have a flash with circuit in atachment.
Can I add one more capacitor (800uF 330V) in parallel with C3 (500uF 330V) without
Inconvenience?
If not is there any way to replace some otner parts of the flash to make it work safe with doubled capacitors?
 

Attachments

  • soligor_mk32_sch2.png
    soligor_mk32_sch2.png
    38.4 KB · Views: 135
Last edited:

BobK

Jan 5, 2010
7,682
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
7,682
It might overdrive the flash tube and destroy it. Even if it doesn't right away, it would likely shorten its life.

Bob
 

Braeden Hamson

Feb 18, 2016
240
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
240
If you can find the data sheet for the bulb that's how we'll know. You can look up replacement bulbs for it, or take the bulb out and look for part numbers. The data sheet is really how we'll know. Also, why do you want a longer flash. (Just covering all bases) I assume because you want to open your shutter a little longer to have a brighter scene. Maybe there's another way to get more light?
 

davenn

Moderator
Sep 5, 2009
14,268
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
14,268
As far as I know - longer. But, what I dont know is it safe for rest of circuit.

so you do a longer exposure time ... same effect

what are you trying to photo that you think a longer flash time is needed ?
 

nebojsa

May 13, 2017
40
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
40
so you do a longer exposure time ... same effect

what are you trying to photo that you think a longer flash time is needed ?
I want to use it on my camera with up to 1/100 sec exposure. Flash duration (acording to some sources on net) is a few miliseconds or less. I think that even doubled power will fit in this 1/100 part of a second.
 

Braeden Hamson

Feb 18, 2016
240
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
240
My two cents is that flash is fairly cheap. So go for it if it explodes, saftey squints. There are a lot of variables here. We'd have to know the trace size and part numbers of all components between the capacitors and flash. Just remember capacitors are like vindictive girlfriends they'll shock you when you least expect it. So, discharge them before messing around.
 

davenn

Moderator
Sep 5, 2009
14,268
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
14,268
I want to use it on my camera with up to 1/100 sec exposure.

that needs clarifying

most decent cameras will sync happily up to 250th of a sec with a flash
do you have a low quality camera ?

you don't seem to understand some of the basics of photography

you do also realise that each full aperture stop you open up is double the light ?
or as I said earlier you can decrease the shutter speed one stop and double the amount of light
or for a 3rd way, you can increase the ISO setting eg going from 100 to 200 or say 200 to 400
also double the amount of light

so there isn't really any need to mess with your flash unit


so again ... what are you trying to photo ?
 
Last edited:

BobK

Jan 5, 2010
7,682
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
7,682
Twice the light = 1 stop higher = better depth of field.

Bob
 

davenn

Moderator
Sep 5, 2009
14,268
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
14,268
Twice the light = 1 stop higher = better depth of field.

actually DOF shortens as you open the aperture ;)

f2.8 has less DOF but twice as much light than f5.6
(as I was saying in my previous post)

I, as with most togs, like doing portraiture with open aperture for that very reason

an example I recently posted on another forum ..... f2.8 f/l 88mm
it's a great method for separating the main object from the background

2014_06_21_1200sm-jpg-jpg.207206




Dave
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
Moderator
Jan 21, 2010
25,510
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Messages
25,510
I want to use it on my camera with up to 1/100 sec exposure. Flash duration (acording to some sources on net) is a few miliseconds or less. I think that even doubled power will fit in this 1/100 part of a second.

It is generally shorter exposures which are a problem when using a flash.

Assuming you're using a film with a focal plane shutter, the limit is the fastest speed at which the second curtain is released after the first curtain has fully opened.

A focal plane shutter works by having one (first) shutter which uncovers the film or sensor and another (second) shutter which covers it back up again.

At slow shutter speed (longer exposures) the first curtain opens, then the second curtain closes.

At fast shutter speed (shorter exposures) the second curtain is released while the first curtain still partially obscures the film/sensor. At very fast shutter speeds, the difference between the two shutters if very small, leading to a thin open slit moving across the film/sensor.

The fastest speed at which the entire film/sensor area is exposed all at once is the sync speed of the camera. This is the fastest shutter speed at which you can use a conventional flash.

Perversely, at faster shutter speeds, the flash duration needs to be longer.

For a typical flash, the peak intensity is a couple of ms. This is fine for any shutter speed from the sync speed and longer.

The sync speed is very close to the time it takes for a single curtain to traverse the focal plane aperture. Incidentally, it is also close to the actual time all exposures shorter than this take. As an example, a camera with a 1/90sec sync speed takes about 1/90sec to take a 1/1000sec exposure!

Because of this, shorter exposures require a longer flash duration (and also a very even level of illumination). With a 1/90sec sync speed, the flash needs to stay on for at least 12ms for a 1/1000sec exposure. Some modern flashes do this by pulsing the flash very quickly.

Even if you do this, then for the same flash power spread out over 10 times the duration with only 10% of the aperture open at any time, you only get 1/10th (not 1/100th) of the exposure.

A better solution to needing a faster shutter speed with a flash is to stop down or use a neutral density filter. Assuming the majority of the exposure comes from the flash, the flash itself determines the duration of the main exposure, not the shutter speed. You only need a shutter speed at or below the sync speed.

If you don't want to stop down (because you want a shallow depth of field) then the simple solution is to use a slower film speed (lower ISO) or an ND filter. Naturally, you may also need to make corresponding changes to flash power.
 
Last edited:

nebojsa

May 13, 2017
40
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
40
actually DOF shortens as you open the aperture ;)

f2.8 has less DOF but twice as much light than f5.6
(as I was saying in my previous post)

I, as with most togs, like doing portraiture with open aperture for that very reason

an example I recently posted on another forum ..... f2.8 f/l 88mm
it's a great method for separating the main object from the background

2014_06_21_1200sm-jpg-jpg.207206




Dave
I want to do something like this guy did in this link.
http://desmond-downs.blogspot.rs/2010/09/turbo-flash.html
A lot of images are not available in link above. On google search can be found first 7 images.
https://www.google.rs/search?q=Turb...E5oKHRObBhoQ_AUIBigB&biw=1440&bih=728#imgrc=_
 
Last edited:

nebojsa

May 13, 2017
40
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
40
It is generally shorter exposures which are a problem when using a flash.

Assuming you're using a film with a focal plane shutter, the limit is the fastest speed at which the second curtain is released after the first curtain has fully opened.

A focal plane shutter works by having one (first) shutter which uncovers the film or sensor and another (second) shutter which covers it back up again.

At slow shutter speed (longer exposures) the first curtain opens, then the second curtain closes.

At fast shutter speed (shorter exposures) the second curtain is released while the first curtain still partially obscures the film/sensor. At very fast shutter speeds, the difference between the two shutters if very small, leading to a thin open slit moving across the film/sensor.

The fastest speed at which the entire film/sensor area is exposed all at once is the sync speed of the camera. This is the fastest shutter speed at which you can use a conventional flash.

Perversely, at faster shutter speeds, the flash duration needs to be longer.

For a typical flash, the peak intensity is a couple of ms. This is fine for any shutter speed from the sync speed and longer.

The sync speed is very close to the time it takes for a single curtain to traverse the focal plane aperture. Incidentally, it is also close to the actual time all exposures shorter than this take. As an example, a camera with a 1/90sec sync speed takes about 1/90sec to take a 1/1000sec exposure!

Because of this, shorter exposures require a longer flash duration (and also a very even level of illumination). With a 1/90sec sync speed, the flash needs to stay on for at least 12ms for a 1/1000sec exposure. Some modern flashes do this by pulsing the flash very quickly.

Even if you do this, then for the same flash power spread out over 10 times the duration with only 10% of the aperture open at any time, you only get 1/10th (not 1/100th) of the exposure.

A better solution to needing a faster shutter speed with a flash is to stop down or use a neutral density filter. Assuming the majority of the exposure comes from the flash, the flash itself determines the duration of the main exposure, not the shutter speed. You only need a shutter speed at or below the sync speed.

If you don't want to stop down (because you want a shallow depth of field) then the simple solution is to use a slower film speed (lower ISO) or an ND filter. Naturally, you may also need to make corresponding changes to flash power.
My camera can sync up to 1/250 s, but I rarely use faster than 1/100s.
Here is the link. This guy did it with realy tiny flash.
http://desmond-downs.blogspot.rs/2010/09/turbo-flash.html
A lot of images are not available in link above. On google search can be found first 7 images.
https://www.google.rs/search?q=Turb...E5oKHRObBhoQ_AUIBigB&biw=1440&bih=728#imgrc=_
 
Last edited:

nebojsa

May 13, 2017
40
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
40
My two cents is that flash is fairly cheap. So go for it if it explodes, saftey squints. There are a lot of variables here. We'd have to know the trace size and part numbers of all components between the capacitors and flash. Just remember capacitors are like vindictive girlfriends they'll shock you when you least expect it. So, discharge them before messing around.
Ok. I take caution when working with big capacitors. I will try first with lower combination of capacitors ( I have three 500uF, 800uF and 1000uF) and take test shots with diferent speed and aperture for comparasion. In the end I will atach all of them to test.
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
Moderator
Jan 21, 2010
25,510
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Messages
25,510
My camera can sync up to 1/250 s, but I rarely use faster than 1/100s.
Here is the link. This guy did it with realy tiny flash.

So what do you actually want to do? And I don't mean adding capacitors, I mean what sort of photography are you currently unable to do that you think adding capacitors to your flash is the answer.
 

nebojsa

May 13, 2017
40
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
40
So what do you actually want to do? And I don't mean adding capacitors, I mean what sort of photography are you currently unable to do that you think adding capacitors to your flash is the answer.
Flash (or flashes) for overpowering the sun photography.
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
Moderator
Jan 21, 2010
25,510
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Messages
25,510
What do you mean by "overpowering the sun"?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top