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RTOS

Hai,

i want related information about RTOS whether any website is their to
know the complete information
about RTOS in detail with atleast any one project based on RTOS
 
H

Homer J Simpson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hai,

i want related information about RTOS whether any website is their to
know the complete information
about RTOS in detail with atleast any one project based on RTOS

Which RTOS? OS-9?
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hai,

i want related information about RTOS whether any website is their to
know the complete information
about RTOS in detail with atleast any one project based on RTOS
Be advised that for an 8088 thru Pentium type CPU, a truly RTOS is
impossible; the memory refresh and timer tick are tied to a *non*
maskable interrupt.
That means that timing is ranDUMB because that "burp" tick is ranDUMB
relative to any program that can be written.
Oh yes, the more modern variants have a rather nice added instruction
FRDTSC that gives cpu clock cycles since startup.
So use FRDTSC to get the count and save it, then CALL some routine,
then use FRDTSC again to get the new count and use the difference.
Convert to seconds if you know the "exact" frequency the CPU is
running at.
Yawn.
RanDUMBly the "burp" tick will mess with that time difference; the
longer the routine takes, the more probable that the "burp" will be
caught, until if it is really long, many "burps" will happen and perhaps
if the routine is long enough, one may know (within one "burp") how
many happen.
One cannot directly generate music as syncopated as a person can, due
to that ranDUMB re-direction of critical timing routines.

Moral?
Use *any* other CPU than the X86/X88 family!
 
R

Robert Adsett

Jan 1, 1970
0
Be advised that for an 8088 thru Pentium type CPU, a truly RTOS is
impossible; the memory refresh and timer tick are tied to a *non*
maskable interrupt.

That's the PC architecture not the 808x. Systems have certainly been
built w/o that particular feature. Similar features have been
implemented on other micros. Also as I recall the early PCs at least
the timer wasn't on the NMI although from (I belive the AT) there is a
watchdog timer on the NMI. Any conversion of that 'watchdog' occurred
after I stopped caring.

Robert
 
J

Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0
That's the PC architecture not the 808x. Systems have certainly been
built w/o that particular feature. Similar features have been
implemented on other micros. Also as I recall the early PCs at least
the timer wasn't on the NMI although from (I belive the AT) there is a
watchdog timer on the NMI. Any conversion of that 'watchdog' occurred
after I stopped caring.

Robert

yes correct.
Also talkin gabot real time without ,mentionin ga latency makes little
sense.
As the ultimate minimum time would be a processors clock cycle or two,
so nothing is immediate.
For the x86 platform several solutions are availabe:
http://www.novell.com/products/realtime/overview.html
<30 us latency for Novel real time Linux on the PC.
There you go :)
 
J

jasen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Be advised that for an 8088 thru Pentium type CPU, a truly RTOS is
impossible; the memory refresh and timer tick are tied to a *non*
maskable interrupt.

bullshit neither are processor features, both are maskable
, even controllable.
Moral?
Use *any* other CPU than the X86/X88 family!

or RTFM.

Bye.
Jasen
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert said:
That's the PC architecture not the 808x. Systems have certainly been
built w/o that particular feature. Similar features have been
implemented on other micros. Also as I recall the early PCs at least
the timer wasn't on the NMI although from (I belive the AT) there is a
watchdog timer on the NMI. Any conversion of that 'watchdog' occurred
after I stopped caring.

Robert
You recall incorrectly; the timer was a NMI and i could scan the
schematics from the IBM Technical Reference manual AKA Personal Computer
Hardware Reference Library, First Edition (August 1981).
And it has been an NMI from then to now and into the future.
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jan said:
yes correct.
Also talkin gabot real time without ,mentionin ga latency makes little
sense.
As the ultimate minimum time would be a processors clock cycle or two,
so nothing is immediate.
For the x86 platform several solutions are availabe:
http://www.novell.com/products/realtime/overview.html
<30 us latency for Novel real time Linux on the PC.
There you go :)
That 30 microseconds is meaningless and can be considered incorrect,
as the CPU clock speed was not mentioned.
Using my Pentium MMX-233 computer, i can do a multiply in 42uSec, and
the estimated call overhead is 3uSec.
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
jasen said:
bullshit neither are processor features, both are maskable
, even controllable.




or RTFM.

Bye.
Jasen
Refer to the IBM Technical Reference manual, First Edition (August 1981).
 
J

Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0
That 30 microseconds is meaningless and can be considered incorrect,
as the CPU clock speed was not mentioned.

Where do you buy a < 1GHz PC these days...
Also it does clearly not depend so much on clock speed, but on the
software system (kernel) itself, one clock at 1GHz = 1ns.
So the PC has at least 30 000 clock cycles to do things.
Using my Pentium MMX-233 computer, i can do a multiply in 42uSec, and
the estimated call overhead is 3uSec.

But does it run a webserver, mail server, name server, graphical user interface,
webbrowser, editor, mp3player, TV recording, USB interfaces, etc at the same time?
 
J

Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0
Refer to the IBM Technical Reference manual, First Edition (August 1981).

Some things changed in the last 26 years :)
 
R

Robert Adsett

Jan 1, 1970
0
You recall incorrectly; the timer was a NMI and i could scan the
schematics from the IBM Technical Reference manual AKA Personal Computer
Hardware Reference Library, First Edition (August 1981).

Hmm, I thought it went to the PIC. I yield to your reference though, I
no longer have access to a copy to check.

Still leaves the basic point that hooking anything in particular to the
NMI is a PC architecture decision not an 808x feature.

Robert
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jan said:
Where do you buy a < 1GHz PC these days...
Also it does clearly not depend so much on clock speed, but on the
software system (kernel) itself, one clock at 1GHz = 1ns.
So the PC has at least 30 000 clock cycles to do things.




But does it run a webserver, mail server, name server, graphical user interface,
webbrowser, editor, mp3player, TV recording, USB interfaces, etc at the same time?
Do not act stupid.
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jan said:
Some things changed in the last 26 years :)
The NMI hardware/software structure has been faithfully copied to
present PCs.
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert said:
Hmm, I thought it went to the PIC. I yield to your reference though, I
no longer have access to a copy to check.

Still leaves the basic point that hooking anything in particular to the
NMI is a PC architecture decision not an 808x feature.

Robert
Yes, if anyone has designed and built different hardware - hopefully
to eliminate that drawback.
 
K

krw

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yes, if anyone has designed and built different hardware - hopefully
to eliminate that drawback.
Good grief, Gert! The 80186/8 were used in the embedded industry
for decades! ...as has been the 8086 and its derivatives.
The IBM 5150 PC <> x86.
 
J

joseph2k

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert said:
That 30 microseconds is meaningless and can be considered incorrect,
as the CPU clock speed was not mentioned.
Using my Pentium MMX-233 computer, i can do a multiply in 42uSec, and
the estimated call overhead is 3uSec.

That multiply timing is not believable, are you sure you don't mean 0.42 uS?
I have seen 1970 class computers that could 32 bit by 32 bit multiply in 22
clock ticks.

In the "PC" platform MNI is tied to keyboard controller 8048 for
CTRL-ALT-DEL, not timer tick it is on IRQ 2.
 
J

Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0
Do not act stupid.

You are defeated :)
That is what the Novell real times Linux can do and more.
Good reason to leave MS DOOZ
 
J

Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0
The NMI hardware/software structure has been faithfully copied to
present PCs.

I am not so sure.
First there is a totally different memory structure, and refresh is
likely handled by the chipset, along with many other things.
So your argument NMI is used for refresh is no likely longer valid.

Linux has a nice utility to watch the interrupts happening:
ftp://panteltje.com/pub/xosview.gif
My mouse is on 12
 
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