# fusible resistor substitute

Discussion in 'Electronic Repair' started by captainvideo462002@yahoo.com, Jun 25, 2006.

1. ### Guest

I just worked on a set that had a shorted diode that took out the 1.5
ohm 7 watt fusible resistor. I have a 10watt resistor in stock but I
really don't want to use it in place of a 7. In general it seems that I
never seem to have the correct size of these things around when I need
them. I was wondering if there is any reason that I couldn't substitute
an appropriate size fuse for this application? The current in theory to
open the resistor would have to exceed 3.24 amps. So I was thinking
perhaps a 4 amp fuse would do. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Thanks. Lenny Stein, Barlen Electronics.

, Jun 25, 2006

2. ### SimocGuest

wrote:
> The current in theory to
> open the resistor would have to exceed 3.24 amps.

How did you calculate that? P=I^2R --> I=sqrt(P/R) -->
sqrt(7W/1.5ohm)=2.16A

> So I was thinking
> perhaps a 4 amp fuse would do.

2 amps, rather and I wouldn't use one with any higher rated current
than "the original one (the resistor)" had...

> Anyone have any thoughts on this?

It depends on that did the resistance of the resistor have any purpose,
or was it just to heat it up so that it will work as a fuse. That is of
course highly possible in case of such low resistance...if you can tell
it, your idea might work, although it sounds a little crazy

Simoc, Jun 25, 2006

3. ### Franc ZabkarGuest

On 25 Jun 2006 09:41:06 -0700, ""
<> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>I just worked on a set that had a shorted diode that took out the 1.5
>ohm 7 watt fusible resistor. I have a 10watt resistor in stock but I
>really don't want to use it in place of a 7. In general it seems that I
>never seem to have the correct size of these things around when I need
>them. I was wondering if there is any reason that I couldn't substitute
>an appropriate size fuse for this application? The current in theory to
>open the resistor would have to exceed 3.24 amps. So I was thinking
>perhaps a 4 amp fuse would do. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
>Thanks. Lenny Stein, Barlen Electronics.

I've always wondered about how fusible resistors were rated.

Here is the datasheet for Vishay's CMF fusible 0.25W/0.5W metal film
flameproof fusible resistors:

http://www.vishay.com/docs/31031/cmffuse.pdf

The average fusing time for the 0.25W versions is 1 sec at 15W, 16s at
5W, and 24s at ~4W. That's a lot slower than a typical glass fuse. The
fusing specs also state that lower resistance parts take longer to
fuse than higher resistances.

Here is the datasheet for the LCA...SI carbon fusible resistor series:

http://www.vishay.com/docs/20137/lcasi.pdf

The LCA0207SI has a power rating of 0.25W but requires a 4A overload
before it will fuse. At this current the maximum time to fuse is 15
secs. So it seems that the equivalent circuit is ...

o---- R ---- F ----o
1/4W 3A ???

I'm conFUSEd ...

- Franc Zabkar
--

Franc Zabkar, Jun 25, 2006
4. ### Jim LandGuest

Franc Zabkar <> wrote in
news::

>
> I'm conFUSEd ...
>

Use a SLOW BLOW fuse. They have the same characteristic you're describing,
blowing faster for bigger currents.

Jim Land, Jun 26, 2006
5. ### Guest

Lenny:
If it were me and I was able to pinpoint the exact fault that caused
the 7 watt resistor (like a shorted semiconductor or capacitor,etc.) to
burn out I would without hesistation use a 10 watt replacement (forget
the fuse substitute) and let the set run for an hour or so and test for
overheated components and excessive current through the resistor.
Usually this type and value of low ohm resistor is used for current
limiting and/or inrush current control and in light of another drastic
fault condition, the 10 watt resistor would perform it's task and open
up just as the original value did.
electricitym
- - - - - - -

snipped:
wrote:
> I just worked on a set that had a shorted diode that took out the 1.5
> ohm 7 watt fusible resistor. I have a 10watt resistor in stock but I
> really don't want to use it in place of a 7. In general it seems that I

, Jun 26, 2006
6. ### Franc ZabkarGuest

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:03:00 +1000, Franc Zabkar
<> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>On 25 Jun 2006 09:41:06 -0700, ""
><> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
>>I just worked on a set that had a shorted diode that took out the 1.5
>>ohm 7 watt fusible resistor. I have a 10watt resistor in stock but I
>>really don't want to use it in place of a 7. In general it seems that I
>>never seem to have the correct size of these things around when I need
>>them. I was wondering if there is any reason that I couldn't substitute
>>an appropriate size fuse for this application? The current in theory to
>>open the resistor would have to exceed 3.24 amps. So I was thinking
>>perhaps a 4 amp fuse would do. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
>>Thanks. Lenny Stein, Barlen Electronics.

>
>I've always wondered about how fusible resistors were rated.
>
>Here is the datasheet for Vishay's CMF fusible 0.25W/0.5W metal film
>flameproof fusible resistors:
>
> http://www.vishay.com/docs/31031/cmffuse.pdf
>
>The average fusing time for the 0.25W versions is 1 sec at 15W, 16s at
>5W, and 24s at ~4W. That's a lot slower than a typical glass fuse. The
>fusing specs also state that lower resistance parts take longer to
>fuse than higher resistances.
>
>Here is the datasheet for the LCA...SI carbon fusible resistor series:
>
> http://www.vishay.com/docs/20137/lcasi.pdf
>
>The LCA0207SI has a power rating of 0.25W but requires a 4A overload

Oops, that should be 4W, not 4A, so the fusing current is 4x rated
current.

>before it will fuse. At this current the maximum time to fuse is 15
>secs.

- Franc Zabkar
--

Franc Zabkar, Jun 26, 2006
7. ### Franc ZabkarGuest

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 02:30:58 -0000, Jim Land
<RrrrFfffTttt(NO)@(SPAM)hotmail.com> put finger to keyboard and
composed:

>Franc Zabkar <> wrote in
>news::
>
>>
>> I'm conFUSEd ...
>>

>
>Use a SLOW BLOW fuse. They have the same characteristic you're describing,
>blowing faster for bigger currents.

True, but it would have to be a *very* slow fuse.

For instance, these slo-blo fuses require only 0.6 sec before they
rupture at 4x rated current:

http://www.littelfuse.com/data/en/Time_Curve/385_multipletccurve.pdf

OTOH, the fusible carbon resistors require 15s to rupture at 4x rated
current.

- Franc Zabkar
--

Franc Zabkar, Jun 26, 2006
8. ### Mark D. ZachariasGuest

<> wrote in message
news:...
>I just worked on a set that had a shorted diode that took out the 1.5
> ohm 7 watt fusible resistor. I have a 10watt resistor in stock but I
> really don't want to use it in place of a 7. In general it seems that I
> never seem to have the correct size of these things around when I need
> them. I was wondering if there is any reason that I couldn't substitute
> an appropriate size fuse for this application? The current in theory to
> open the resistor would have to exceed 3.24 amps. So I was thinking
> perhaps a 4 amp fuse would do. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
> Thanks. Lenny Stein, Barlen Electronics.
>

I think I'd look for a 1 ohm 5 watt fusible resistor. The lower resistance
will roughly accout for the lower wattage rating - yet still give the
protection.

Mark Z.

Mark D. Zacharias, Jun 26, 2006
9. ### M BergerGuest

This might be a liability issue for a commercial servicer.

wrote:
> Lenny:
> If it were me and I was able to pinpoint the exact fault that caused
> the 7 watt resistor (like a shorted semiconductor or capacitor,etc.) to
> burn out I would without hesistation use a 10 watt replacement (forget
> the fuse substitute) and let the set run for an hour or so and test for
> overheated components and excessive current through the resistor.
> Usually this type and value of low ohm resistor is used for current
> limiting and/or inrush current control and in light of another drastic
> fault condition, the 10 watt resistor would perform it's task and open
> up just as the original value did.
> electricitym
> - - - - - - -

M Berger, Jun 26, 2006
10. ### Guest

Thanks for all the responses. I found a .82 ohm7W fusible and used it.
It is not getting hot as I'm sure this device is only to address as
others have said inrush current. I ran the set for a few hours and it
seems fine. I'll have to add some of those fusibles to my next parts
order. Thanks again. Best regards. Lenny.
M Berger wrote:
> This might be a liability issue for a commercial servicer.
>
> wrote:
> > Lenny:
> > If it were me and I was able to pinpoint the exact fault that caused
> > the 7 watt resistor (like a shorted semiconductor or capacitor,etc.) to
> > burn out I would without hesistation use a 10 watt replacement (forget
> > the fuse substitute) and let the set run for an hour or so and test for
> > overheated components and excessive current through the resistor.
> > Usually this type and value of low ohm resistor is used for current
> > limiting and/or inrush current control and in light of another drastic
> > fault condition, the 10 watt resistor would perform it's task and open
> > up just as the original value did.
> > electricitym
> > - - - - - - -

, Jun 26, 2006
11. ### SimocGuest

Franc Zabkar wrote:
> I'm conFUSEd ...

The explanation to that confusing thing might be that the fusibility of
fusible resistors is intended just for preventing fire hazard if the
res is overloaded, rather than to protect other components on the
circuit. So the only thing that matters is that the "fusing point" is
below the resistor's ignition point

Simoc, Jun 27, 2006