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What do you think of this design?

P

Phil Hobbs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Guy said:
One of the fellows working for me designed this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3856393230

It's a simple product, but any comments on the design of it
would be most appreciated.
Looks useful in principle but (unless I miss my guess) not so useful in
practice. The major problem I see is the dip switches--typically these
aren't designed for repetitive use, so I'd worry that they'd become flaky
quite rapidly.

Those DIP switches are SPST, I gather, so all your Rs and Cs are wired in
series, with a DIP switch in shunt with each one. This makes the flakiness
problem significantly worse, since instead of 2 contacts (for a rotary DPNT
wafer switch) you've got N contacts in series.


Capacitor tolerance is another issue--those are mostly ceramic discs. What
capacitance tolerance and tempco are they? And what about the inductance and
capacitance of all those traces?

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs
 
G

Guy Macon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Phil said:
Looks useful in principle but (unless I miss my guess) not so useful in
practice. The major problem I see is the dip switches--typically these
aren't designed for repetitive use, so I'd worry that they'd become flaky
quite rapidly.

Those DIP switches are SPST, I gather, so all your Rs and Cs are wired in
series, with a DIP switch in shunt with each one. This makes the flakiness
problem significantly worse, since instead of 2 contacts (for a rotary DPNT
wafer switch) you've got N contacts in series.

They are rated for 10,000 actuations. We thought about using a rotary,
but felt that the ease of replacement was more important. My experience
is that most decade boxes get damaged by inductive loads or overcurrent
long before the switches wear out.
Capacitor tolerance is another issue--those are mostly ceramic discs. What
capacitance tolerance and tempco are they?

The first 100 we made have 7.5% cheap capacitors, but we may change that.
Also, we expect that most users will be willing to solder in different
parts if they don't like the ones we picked.
And what about the inductance and capacitance of all those traces?

That's a generic problem with any decade box. If inductance and
capacitance matter to you, you really shouldn't be using a decade
box.

Come to think about it, I really should characterize these specs.
If someone here is willing to measure the residual R, C, L and the
-3DB point, I will send you one and you can keep it.
 
N

Nico Coesel

Jan 1, 1970
0
Guy Macon said:
One of the fellows working for me designed this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3856393230

It's a simple product, but any comments on the design of it
would be most appreciated.

Looks neat. But why screw-terminals? I would prefer the speaker like
terminals. No tools needed. Or even better: 4mm jacks with screw
posts. So you can connect loose wires or standard test leads without
tools.
 
G

Guy Macon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Nico said:
Looks neat. But why screw-terminals? I would prefer the speaker like
terminals. No tools needed. Or even better: 4mm jacks with screw
posts. So you can connect loose wires or standard test leads without
tools.

Good idea. Do you have a part number that you like (and won't cost
an arm and a leg)? We only made 100 of them, and doing a re-layout
isn't a problem.
 
F

Frank Bemelman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Phil Hobbs said:
Looks useful in principle but (unless I miss my guess) not so useful in
practice. The major problem I see is the dip switches--typically these
aren't designed for repetitive use, so I'd worry that they'd become flaky
quite rapidly.

Those DIP switches are SPST, I gather, so all your Rs and Cs are wired in
series, with a DIP switch in shunt with each one. This makes the flakiness
problem significantly worse, since instead of 2 contacts (for a rotary DPNT
wafer switch) you've got N contacts in series.


Capacitor tolerance is another issue--those are mostly ceramic discs. What
capacitance tolerance and tempco are they? And what about the inductance and
capacitance of all those traces?

In the sausage extruder business, one does not care much about
a bit of unforeseen tolerance. I think it is great for tweaking
a sausage machine in the field.
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
One of the fellows working for me designed this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3856393230

It's a simple product, but any comments on the design of it
would be most appreciated.

Guy- what's the target market? Repairmen? Techs? Engineers?
Educational?

I've seen this kind:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=73154&item=3856515070&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
but never felt much of a need for one.

Until relatively recently we used decade boxes (<<0.1% tolerance
wirewound) for instrument calibration (and speed of setting was
all-important so big easy-to-set knobs were the only way to go), but
now that is done electronically too.

Seems to me that if you have to spend too much time figuring the
switch settings and fiddling with the, you'd be faster just going to a
kit or drawer and pulling out the right value of part.

Perhaps schools might buy them- they tend to deal only with
low-voltage low-power circuits and this might suit them. Better
protection of the components and people from potentially dangerous
voltages with a housing and the banana jack type of terminals wouldn't
hurt, but would cost more.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
N

Nico Coesel

Jan 1, 1970
0
Guy Macon said:
Good idea. Do you have a part number that you like (and won't cost
an arm and a leg)? We only made 100 of them, and doing a re-layout
isn't a problem.

Farnell 143-550 looks nice. Around EUR 1.15 if you buy 100.
 
B

Blake

Jan 1, 1970
0
. . . but any comments on the design of it
would be most appreciated.

DIP switches are fine for use in set-and-forget applications, but as
controls on a piece of test equipment? I doubt they will hold up very long
in daily use.
 
C

CBarn24050

Jan 1, 1970
0
Subject: What do you think of this design?
From: Guy Macon http://www.guymacon.com
Date: 28/11/2004 13:44 GMT Standard Time
Message-id: <[email protected]>


One of the fellows working for me designed this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3856393230

It's a simple product, but any comments on the design of it
would be most appreciated.

Practicaly useless, no good as an accurate cap box as there is too much
unpredictable stray cap. No good at anything over video frquency due to self
resonance. Will emit and pickup all manner of emi. If that wasn't enough this
is a product that is allready in the marketplace for decades, invent something
new!
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Spehro,
Until relatively recently we used decade boxes (<<0.1% tolerance
wirewound) for instrument calibration (and speed of setting was
all-important so big easy-to-set knobs were the only way to go), but
now that is done electronically too.

Or a ten turn potmeter and a good DVM.
Seems to me that if you have to spend too much time figuring the
switch settings and fiddling with the, you'd be faster just going to a
kit or drawer and pulling out the right value of part.

These boxes are pretty out of date. With today's fast devices any wires
to such a box will likely cause the circuit to go on the wild side.

Regards, Joerg
 
G

Guy Macon

Jan 1, 1970
0
normanstrong said:
It appears to be a resistor/capacitor substitution box, not a decade
box.

Nope. It's a decade box. It is set by binary switches thusly:

....
80K \
40K \___ This is a decade.
20K /
10K /
8K \
4K \___ This is another decade.
2K /
1K /
....

A pure binary box would go fron 8K to 16K, and the user would not
be able to independantly set each decade. With this design he can
independantly set each decade, so it is indeed a decade box.
 
G

Guy Macon

Jan 1, 1970
0
CJT said:
I think it's a safety hazard, with all that exposed wiring.

Good comment! I will look into some sort of finger shield.
Thanks!
 
G

Guy Macon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Fred said:
What is it used for? Didn't PC SPICE kill the market for these things?

Nope. There are plenty of people setting up things in factories,
designing their first circuit, trying to decide exactly how bright
to make the LED they are using, etc.
 
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