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TO-220 Failures due to lead bending?

J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
OK, I've designed over a thousand circuit boards, roughly $200e6 in
sales, and hacked close to a thousand programs, a million lines or
two, including three RTOSs and a couple of compilers. Lately, timing
system and beam modulators for NIF, and a lot of NMR and aerospace
stuff.


Show us a link.

I've delegated the running of my company to people who are good at
that sort of thing, so I can keep designing electronics:

http://www.highlandtechnology.com/index.html


Mo does make mighty tasty mac and cheese, with white cheddar and
crunchy toasted baked bread cubes on top. She's Irish/Sicilian and
does interesting things. I just cooked lunch, portabellas and veggies
(mostly garlic!) in a white wine sauce over pasta, and I'm just now
finishing off the last of the chocolate truffles.

All I need now, to make life perfect, is a good affordable source for
connectorized 1310 nm singlemode lasers.

John

I just realized why the sudden uptick in kook postings... kindergarten
is out for summer break ;-)

I like mac & cheese too... not the out-of-the-box stuff, but from
scratch, baked in an oven.

For lunch yesterday we went into a Thai place, had nothing but a
succession of appetizers, and martinis made from Moonstone Pear Sake
and Apple Pucker... yummy ;-)

...Jim Thompson
 
B

Brian

Jan 1, 1970
0
OK, I've designed over a thousand circuit boards, roughly $200e6 in
sales, and hacked close to a thousand programs, a million lines or
two, including three RTOSs and a couple of compilers. Lately, timing
system and beam modulators for NIF, and a lot of NMR and aerospace
stuff.


Show us a link.

I've delegated the running of my company to people who are good at
that sort of thing, so I can keep designing electronics:

http://www.highlandtechnology.com/index.html


Mo does make mighty tasty mac and cheese, with white cheddar and
crunchy toasted baked bread cubes on top. She's Irish/Sicilian and
does interesting things. I just cooked lunch, portabellas and veggies
(mostly garlic!) in a white wine sauce over pasta, and I'm just now
finishing off the last of the chocolate truffles.

All I need now, to make life perfect, is a good affordable source for
connectorized 1310 nm singlemode lasers.

John

John,

What, you want a pissing match? Like my R&D work with Big Blue? My work that
went up on the space shuttle (oddly enough, the one that blew up)? My
designs now in oribiting satellites? Countless algorithms done in software?
Etc... etc... etc.... I have no interest in comparing my works with yours.
But I bet my Mom can beat up your Dad.... Neener Neener Neener!

Anything you may be doing with JDS U is nothing you are going to impress me
with. Nor with the toys on your website. You are just a "bit" in awe of
yourself. One thing you need to realize is other people are out here doing
things that would cook your feeble brain.

Besides, I have "retired" into a much slower paced line of business. I AM
very good at running my business (and related advisory roles in others) and
I am enjoying the free time AT HOME this allows. I have been to all corners
of the globe working, away for months, its just not for me anymore. I now
prefer being able to pick my daughter up from school everyday, playing in
the sandbox, and hooking up the cart to the horse and trotting up and down
the road.

In short, trying to impress me is a waste of time, bounce your ego, fluff
your feathers, or hump things like a dominant dog for someone else.
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
John,

What, you want a pissing match? Like my R&D work with Big Blue? My work that
went up on the space shuttle (oddly enough, the one that blew up)? My
designs now in oribiting satellites? Countless algorithms done in software?
Etc... etc... etc.... I have no interest in comparing my works with yours.
But I bet my Mom can beat up your Dad.... Neener Neener Neener!

Anything you may be doing with JDS U is nothing you are going to impress me
with. Nor with the toys on your website. You are just a "bit" in awe of
yourself. One thing you need to realize is other people are out here doing
things that would cook your feeble brain.

Besides, I have "retired" into a much slower paced line of business. I AM
very good at running my business (and related advisory roles in others) and
I am enjoying the free time AT HOME this allows. I have been to all corners
of the globe working, away for months, its just not for me anymore. I now
prefer being able to pick my daughter up from school everyday, playing in
the sandbox, and hooking up the cart to the horse and trotting up and down
the road.

In short, trying to impress me is a waste of time, bounce your ego, fluff
your feathers, or hump things like a dominant dog for someone else.

Dear Applicant:

Thank you for expressing interest in the position of SED USENET
TROLL. At the present time, this requisition has been closed.

We will retain your information in our database and may inform you
of job openings that match your interests if you created a profile and
selected this option. We also invite you to visit Careers at SED
regularly to learn of other opportunities.

You may be under consideration for other positions. Please proceed
with any scheduled testing event unless you have been specifically
instructed otherwise.

We thank you for your interest.

Best regards,
SED Staffing

Replies to this message are undeliverable and will not reach the
Human Resource Department. Please do not reply.
 
R

Roy L. Fuchs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Production is bending a complete 90degree at the drain lead
of the mosfet directly at the package.

Production management as well as QA should be rode out of town on a
rail for this behavior then.

One must NEVER bend a lead AT the package!

It stressed the lead frame internally in the device, and can lead to
welded lead connection failures internally, as well as package
fracturing.

ALL mechanical stress placed on a lead MUST be captured externally.
There is ALSO a minimum lead bend radius to consider as sharply bent
copper leads tend to "work harden" and micro-crystalline fractures
WILL occur making the lead current carrying capacity less than half
what it was.

So, even the engineer that designed it should be reamed for not
designing this thing such that proper lead forming practices could be
maintained.

One is not even supposed to bend a resistor lead at the body, much
less more advanced components.

The interesting thing is the environmental circumstances you gave.
It sounds like more is going on than the customer has disclosed.
 
R

Roy L. Fuchs

Jan 1, 1970
0
At a place I worked, we did exactly this with a progressive tool the
first part of the lever pull clamped the leads just outside the package,
then the bending occurred. The production manager said it took them a
while, and a lot of failures, to come up with this approach.

Bends on copper leads should also be done S L O W L Y as copper
"work hardens" and subsequently fractures in a heartbeat. This is
particularly true is the bend radius is sharp, or at a high degree, as
in the 90 degree bends mentioned in the thread.
 
R

Roy L. Fuchs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Cmon, you geeks have never touched a naked woman that wasn't 2-D on paper or
a monitor.

Said the most retarded fuckhead in all of Usenet.
 
R

Roy L. Fuchs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Not to mention the "fluids" you have deposited there.
Will your LAME ass ever grow the **** up?

I would point you to the post I made to the other Usenet retard of
late in abse... the frogtard.

The Gubna has a message for your retarded ass as well.
 
R

Roy L. Fuchs

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'll accept it when you accept the "Village Idiot That Didn't Get Any This
Week" award.
I find it funny that you seem to claim to know the activities of so
many people in these groups.

I think you are an utter fucking retard. That is aside from the
troll thing, fuckhead.
 
R

Roy L. Fuchs

Jan 1, 1970
0
He talks about sex all the time because he doesn't know much about
electronics. Ironic, since he doesn't know much about sex, either.

John

Good one! I actually laughed at that FACT!
 
R

Roy L. Fuchs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Spehro, come on now. You were the one that could not present facts on your
side of the arguement and ran from it, to instead talk about women's boobs!
Your just being even more ignorant now than in that series of posts. Just
admit you know zero about the subject and move on. I would, after alll, you
don't see me trying to move in on your expertise as a inside player in the
homosexual community, do you?
Is there any post that you make that doesn't accuse others of being
what you seemingly are?
 
R

Roy L. Fuchs

Jan 1, 1970
0
John, I did more in electronics in the first 15 years than you will in your
life.

You are full of shit, little boy.
Now, I can just sit back, run the company I always wanted,

Sure you do.
and never
worry about a thing. In the meantime, you keep in there eating Mac and
Cheese every nite with your sig. other. After all, he loves ya!

Do you ever make ANY sense? Technical or otherwise? Where is your
technical and correct response to the OP?

Grow the **** up, retard boy. Until then, shut the **** up.
 
R

Roy L. Fuchs

Jan 1, 1970
0
What, you want a pissing match? Like my R&D work with Big Blue? My work that
went up on the space shuttle (oddly enough, the one that blew up)? My
designs now in oribiting satellites? Countless algorithms done in software?
Etc... etc... etc.... I have no interest in comparing my works with yours.
But I bet my Mom can beat up your Dad.... Neener Neener Neener!

I think that you are a goddamned liar, boy.
 
R

Roy L. Fuchs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Anything you may be doing with JDS U is nothing you are going to impress me
with. Nor with the toys on your website. You are just a "bit" in awe of
yourself. One thing you need to realize is other people are out here doing
things that would cook your feeble brain.

The funny part is that YOU are NOT one of those "other people".
 
R

Roy L. Fuchs

Jan 1, 1970
0
In short, trying to impress me is a waste of time, bounce your ego, fluff
your feathers, or hump things like a dominant dog for someone else.

You mean like you were trying to do with us, and your lies about
what you have done and do in life?

Why do I keep thinking that we will see you on Dateline NBC being
caught up in a child solicitation sting?
 
R

Roy L. Fuchs

Jan 1, 1970
0
How slowly do you reckon they bend the leads on a leadframe after the
molding process? These guys http://www.boschman.nl say 0.3 seconds.

However, a SINGLE stamped (read coined or swaged) bend is nowhere
near as stressful as a full 90 degree bend in open air with a small
bend radius. Note that THEIR bends are all at an appropriate radius
for the medium being bent. Also, copper CAN be formed ONE time pretty
reliably. It is successive, subsequent motion that causes the failure
modes.

A simple 90 degree bend of a bare solid 14Ga wire will show cracks at
the large radius side of the bend upon close inspection. Those are
stretch stress cracks. Others form inside the wire as copper is very
crystalline in nature. Bend the wire back, and bend it down again,
and the cracks become readily apparent. The bond between the
molecules tear as the medium is not tightly bonded together. Bend it
till it breaks and inspect the break point to find that it is a very
grainy medium.

It is a fairly loosely bound metal.
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bends on copper leads should also be done S L O W L Y as copper
"work hardens" and subsequently fractures in a heartbeat. This is
particularly true is the bend radius is sharp, or at a high degree, as
in the 90 degree bends mentioned in the thread.

How slowly do you reckon they bend the leads on a leadframe after the
molding process? These guys http://www.boschman.nl say 0.3 seconds.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
However, a SINGLE stamped (read coined or swaged) bend is nowhere
near as stressful as a full 90 degree bend in open air with a small
bend radius. Note that THEIR bends are all at an appropriate radius
for the medium being bent. Also, copper CAN be formed ONE time pretty
reliably. It is successive, subsequent motion that causes the failure
modes.

True. Although I think the bend of a lead on a TO-220 package is quite
likely to be the first bend (and hopefully the last) it ever sees.

I suspect the dies for leadframe bending effectively support (and
create a controlled radius, as you say) the lead being bent.
A simple 90 degree bend of a bare solid 14Ga wire will show cracks at
the large radius side of the bend upon close inspection. Those are
stretch stress cracks. Others form inside the wire as copper is very
crystalline in nature. Bend the wire back, and bend it down again,
and the cracks become readily apparent. The bond between the
molecules tear as the medium is not tightly bonded together. Bend it
till it breaks and inspect the break point to find that it is a very
grainy medium.

Anyone who has ever run flexible copper tubing knows about the work
hardening. It gets a lot more inflexible after a bend or two.
It is a fairly loosely bound metal.



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
T

Terry Given

Jan 1, 1970
0
Roy said:
Production management as well as QA should be rode out of town on a
rail for this behavior then.

One must NEVER bend a lead AT the package!

It stressed the lead frame internally in the device, and can lead to
welded lead connection failures internally, as well as package
fracturing.

ALL mechanical stress placed on a lead MUST be captured externally.
There is ALSO a minimum lead bend radius to consider as sharply bent
copper leads tend to "work harden" and micro-crystalline fractures
WILL occur making the lead current carrying capacity less than half
what it was.

So, even the engineer that designed it should be reamed for not
designing this thing such that proper lead forming practices could be
maintained.

One is not even supposed to bend a resistor lead at the body, much
less more advanced components.

The interesting thing is the environmental circumstances you gave.
It sounds like more is going on than the customer has disclosed.

I learned that lesson the hard way. the very hard way. but with an SOIC8.

It was after discovering the effect of Zout on a gatedrive (or in other
words, if I keep driving bigger and bigger IGBTs wiht the same cheap
little circuit, what happens?) late in the development phase of a small
box of tricks (0.5kW - 5kW). My colleague and I had sorted out why the
small ones all worked and the big ones all died, and we designed a new
circuit to fix the problems (although we kept making the old circuit for
the smaller units, half of the product range).

time being short, and us being in a hurry, our layout guy made a silly
mistake that nobody picked up, and swapped the pins on a comparator. Our
GM interfered behind our backs, and changed our very fast turnaround
prototype order of 10PCBs into 1,500 PCBs (this we discovered when they
turned up). Within a day we had the gatedrive up and running, and found
the swapped leads. doh.

With a bit of butchery we got the damned thing going, and it performed
very well. So off on soak test. 2 hours later, kaboom. Ah ****, back to
where we first started.

repeat many times.

After about a week of looking very, very closely at the gatedrive, I'd
concluded it was, in theory, fine. My colleague then managed to show the
comparator output changing state when heated up sufficiently; cool it
down and it changed back. scope measurements confirmed the physical pins
themselves werent changing, but the output was. We attributed this to
bending the leads of the SOIC8 having damaged the bond wire. when it
heated up, the bond wire went open circuit, and BANG.

some units lasted longer than others; depending, we presumed, on the
degree of damage done to the bond wire, it would survive one or more
thermal cycles before expiring.

We swapped the two pins, did another super-fast re-spin, only bought 10
pcbs this time, and it worked beautifully, first time. So we built a few
hundred thousand of them.

To add insult to injury, the GM attacked us at a budget meeting a few
months later, for "wasting so much money on prototype PCBs". Our
spineless leader didnt have the balls to point out the GM was the idiot
that ordered the extra 1,490 PCBs.

Cheers
Terry
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Anything you may be doing with JDS U is nothing you are going to impress me
with. Nor with the toys on your website. You are just a "bit" in awe of
yourself.

No, I'm a circuit designer who likes to discuss circuit design and
peripherals topics, with other circuit designers, on a circuit design
newsgroup, and I don't understand your public masturbatory fantasies.

John
 
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