Tingles from power supply

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

That's another cap ! You're not meant to touch the power pins immediately. It's
all in IEC60065.

Graham

Try this one.
Run an electric drill, then unplug it.
Get a "friend" to hold the plug in his hand, prongs inward.
Squeeze the trigger.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Eeyore]

Switcher front ends have transformers? Are you mixing your power
supply designs in your head, boy?


Do the math on the cap and find out that even "fully charged" it will
not present the scenario she described. You are all fucking loony tunes
if you think it does.

You haven't the tiniest idea what you're talking about. You clearly have NO
KNOWLEDGE of either safety issues or EMC.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

A few years back was the end of my tenure of ten years in making power
supplies, you retarded twit.

I have even designed custom entry modules, and if you know what that
term refers to, then you know your claim is invalid, you retarded ****.

I don't give a shit.

YOU'RE WRONG.

 

[Eeyore]

Since you cannot know exactly what type of dongle circuit is being used
(especially from that dumb twit's description), you cannot possibly know
what component you "think" is causing the problem you "think" exists.

Dongle ? What dongle ?

A small wireless router is 99.999% likely to have a simple flyback SMPS and I
know EXACTLY which component is going to be doing it and could even tell you
where you'll find it on the PCB. I'll even hazard a guess its value is 2n2 (
type Y2 ).

Most likely like this with lots of safety and approvals marks on it.
http://uk.farnell.com/murata/de2e3kh222ma3b/capacitor-x12-2-2nf/dp/9527036?_requestid=98989

Stop exposing your arrogant ignorance.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

See this DVD player PSU circuit:
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/DVD/Sunplus/G1928/G1928_PSU.gif

Notice capacitor C8 at the top LHS. It is a Y1 type that connects the
the primary common to the secondary ground. That's what is giving you
the tingle.

I thought it had to be a Y2 type. It needs to be the variety with the
re-inforced insulation. I'll have to re-read my copy of BSEN60065.

This pic shows one. It's the blue cap (they are usually blue) to the top and
left of transformer 'C'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ATX_power_supply_interior.jpg

Graham

 

[Sylvia Else]

That's another cap ! You're not meant to touch the power pins immediately. It's
all in IEC60065.

Graham

Well, I just hope that most consumers have read that standard.

It was quite a belt. I'm glad I didn't touch the two pins with separate
hands.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

100 uA is usually below the threshold of sensation (usually about 1 mA),
but some people can sense current of lower value. If it has a three prong
plug, it may have capacitors to ground. There is also some capacitance from
the primary to secondary windings, especially if they are layer wound. The
shock you got from the plug after disconnecting from the mains may have
been from an RFI filter capacitor that was still charged. If you touched
across two blades of the plug, that might explain it. If you only touched
one blade, then there must have been another return path to ground, such as
the secondary output to a chassis ground, and you would have had to touch
something else grounded, or be wearing very conductive shoes. If it is a
switching supply, there is a fairly large electrolytic charged to about 180
or 360 VDC, and maybe there is reverse leakage through the bridge
rectifier. You might check for DC voltage on the mains plug blades after
disconnection.

I did try immediately afterwards (after plugging it in again for a bit).
Couldn't see much. But it may be a time issue - it's possible to get
one's hands onto the pins rather more quickly that a pair of multimeter
probes. Depends how long the capacitor would remain charged with no
output load.

Further experiments using my hand might be informative, but I'm not game.

Sylvia.

 

[FunkyPunk FieldEffectTrollsistor]

You haven't the tiniest idea what you're talking about.

You're full of shit. I have incorporated more x and y caps into my
designs than the number of designs you ever did.

Like I said before... I have designed power entry modules. You are
clueless about them or you would have shut the **** up the first time I
told you about it.

You clearly have NO
KNOWLEDGE of either safety issues or EMC.

I have designed both HV Xray supplies for LANL as well as medical
supplies where human contact meant limitations in output and it had to be
exact.

You're a goddamned idiot that makes retarded assumptions at every turn.
You are nothing more than a retarded donkey that should get slapped on
the ass while at the edge of a cliff. **** off, you retarded, old, know
nothing fart.

 

[FunkyPunk FieldEffectTrollsistor]

Dongle ? What dongle ?

You're a goddamned idiot. ALL WJANs have EXTERNAL supplies in the form
of an outlet hung or floor placed "dongle". If you are too many decades
behind to know what a dongle is, you have no business in this thread.

A small wireless router is 99.999% likely to have a simple flyback SMPS

You are 100% incorrect. What a small wireless router invariably has is
a DC jack for PS input and an EXTERNAL supply, which you have no clue as
to how it is constructed.

and I
know EXACTLY which component is going to be doing it and could even tell you
where you'll find it on the PCB. I'll even hazard a guess its value is 2n2 (
type Y2 ).

You already tried that "guess" horseshit, and it got you nowhere. You
don't even know how modern gear is powered, much less anything about the
actual circuit. You are pathetic, donkey fucktard.

 

[FunkyPunk FieldEffectTrollsistor]

(they are usually blue)

More utter stupidity.

They are whatever color the maker dips them in, dipshit.

 

[FunkyPunk FieldEffectTrollsistor]

It was quite a belt.

Which proves that you actually made contact with the line, not the
fucking cap in the filter circuit.

Anyone that says otherwise is an electronics retard.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Which proves that you actually made contact with the line, not the
fucking cap in the filter circuit.

The power supply was complete disconnected from anything else. I'm not
talking about touching the pins *while* unplugging it. I'm talking about
touching them *after* unplugging it. At least a couple of seconds
afterwards.

Anyone that says otherwise is an electronics retard.

Ah yes, the old "you're stupid if you don't agree with me" argument.
Always a compelling one, that.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

I have incorporated more x and y caps into my
designs than the number of designs you ever did.

And I'm God.

Oh, wait a moment, I can't prove that either. Bummer.

Sylvia.

 

[FunkyPunk FieldEffectTrollsistor]

The power supply was complete disconnected from anything else. I'm not
talking about touching the pins *while* unplugging it. I'm talking about
touching them *after* unplugging it. At least a couple of seconds
afterwards.


Ah yes, the old "you're stupid if you don't agree with me" argument.
Always a compelling one, that.

Sylvia.

Just as I am quite sure that you can quantify what "quite a belt" is.

In other words, it was NOT "quite a belt". it was a simple ceramic cap
discharge, which comes nowhere near "quite a belt" in REAL electronic
circles. In other words, twit, you are about as layman type as it gets.

So, you ARE an electronics retard, at best.

 

[FunkyPunk FieldEffectTrollsistor]

And I'm God.

Oh, wait a moment, I can't prove that either. Bummer.

Sylvia.

I do not have to prove anything, you stupid ****. What I can prove is
that by the content of your posts, you are 100% retarded as to how things
electrical and electronic work.

The fact that I DO know what an 'entry module' is, and that he did not
further proves that I know more about it than the retarded donkey ever
could.

 

[Eeyore]

Well, I just hope that most consumers have read that standard.

LOL !

It was quite a belt. I'm glad I didn't touch the two pins with separate
hands.

There is a limit on the stored charge and it's meant to be bled away too. Units with
power switches must NOT do this. (Read it last night).

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

You're a goddamned idiot that makes retarded assumptions at every turn.

My 'assumptions' were clearly 100% correct.

Franc came to the same conclusions too. Maybe you're not as expert as you
think.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

You're a goddamned idiot. ALL WJANs have EXTERNAL supplies in the form
of an outlet hung or floor placed "dongle".

That is the wrong word to use. A dongle is an adaptor that enables use of licenced software
that plugs into a PC port.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongle

What Sylvia had is commonly called a 'wall wart'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_wart

Now shut the **** up.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

More utter stupidity.

They are whatever color the maker dips them in, dipshit.

USUALLY BLUE

 

[Eeyore]

Which proves that you actually made contact with the line, not the
fucking cap in the filter circuit.

Anyone that says otherwise is an electronics retard.

You're the retard here. Go learn some electronics !

Sylvia's experience is typical of wall warts.

Graham