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T8 Grow Lights?

M

Mama Bear

Jan 1, 1970
0
I finally gave up trying to find balanced spectrum MH lights in the 150
watt range, with matching ballasts or systems. I guess no one makes them.

But what about T8's? I understand a 3-4 light T8 fixture can put out
12,000 lumens or so above your plants.

The problem I'm finding is that no one apparently makes grow light tubes
in T8, is that true? Lamps that have just the spectrum that plants need
the most?
 
J

Jeff Waymouth

Jan 1, 1970
0
I know that we don't, at this time, and I haven't heard of anyone else
that does either.

Jeff Waymouth
 
J

Jeff Waymouth

Jan 1, 1970
0
I know that we don't, at this time, and I haven't heard of anyone else
that does either.

Jeff Waymouth
 
T

TKM

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mama Bear said:
I finally gave up trying to find balanced spectrum MH lights in the 150
watt range, with matching ballasts or systems. I guess no one makes them.

But what about T8's? I understand a 3-4 light T8 fixture can put out
12,000 lumens or so above your plants.

The problem I'm finding is that no one apparently makes grow light tubes
in T8, is that true? Lamps that have just the spectrum that plants need
the most?

Still wondering why you are insisting on "grow" lights. If you have a
variety of plants, light spectrum doesn't matter very much and, as you have
found, you can't get the lamp in the right type and/or are paying dearly.
Commercial growers typically use standard fluorescent, high pressure sodium
and metal halide lamps. I use standard fluorescent lamps for plants and
the only concession to color is that the plants should look good -- or at
least natural. With fluorescent lamps that means a color such as "830" or
"835" - an industry standard color designation. GE calls their versions
"SPX30" and "SPX35".

A standard 4-foot T8 lamp is rated for about 2800 lumens; but lamp
manufacturers also make "high lumen" versions that work on the same ballasts
rated for 3100 lumens or so. Therefore, 12,000 lumens from 4 4-foot T8
lamps is certainly practical.

I buy such things from a local electrical distributor who has a retail
counter; but hardware stores and big box retailers sell such standard stuff
too. Just be sure you get a ballast that powers the lamps at full wattage.
The cheap so-called "shop lights" may not.

Grainger is an on-line electrical distributor. They show a 4-lamp T8
fluorescent fixture at:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?ItemId=1613556365
It's got a full-power ballast and seems functional for the purpose.

Terry McGowan
 
M

Mama Bear

Jan 1, 1970
0
TKM said:
Still wondering why you are insisting on "grow" lights. If you have
a variety of plants, light spectrum doesn't matter very much

Full spectrum lamps are wasting all the green light they put out, as it
does nothing for the plants.
and, as
you have found, you can't get the lamp in the right type and/or are
paying dearly. Commercial growers typically use standard fluorescent,
high pressure sodium and metal halide lamps.

I'm not a commercial grower. My plants are in a living room. I don't
want a lot of heat in there in the summer because we air condition the
house. I need to get the most light that benefits the plants, for the
dollar.
I buy such things from a local electrical distributor who has a
retail counter; but hardware stores and big box retailers sell such
standard stuff too. Just be sure you get a ballast that powers the
lamps at full wattage. The cheap so-called "shop lights" may not.

I bought one of these last night. http://tinyurl.com/r4mx9
The guy has a lot of info in his auctions for these and it's confusing
but he apparently sells various lamps with these fixtures, to suit the
needs of the customer. The fixture is a high power one, not the shop
light type as you mentioned. It also has polished mirror reflectors, see
the bottom photo there. So this should be nice, and it suits my needs,
instead of the overkill of buying a Hortilix Blue that they only make in
250+ watts and then not being able to find the right system for it.
 
D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
Full spectrum lamps are wasting all the green light they put out, as it
does nothing for the plants.

As for T8 of any somewhat easily obtainable color - the closest I know
of to having a spectrum optimized for plants is 830, or GE's SPX30. I am
under the impression that the majority of the phosphor output of 830 is in
red/reddish output. Chlorophyll utilizes red better than anything else
and after that utilizes blue the best.

Some plants have blue requirements that I suspect might not be met with
the blue mercury line. But then again, last time I looked at a
fluorescent "grow lamp" through a diffraction grating the phosphor output
was nearly all red.

Meanwhile, 835 and 730 are next in line. 835 has slightly more green
and green-blue and a bit of blue phosphor output, and slightly less red.
730 has slightly less red and more green, with the green phosphor output
slightly more yellow than that of 830.

However, somehow I think that as color temperature of a triphosphor T8
increases, green content does not increase a whole lot. Mainly there is
less red and more blue and more green-blue, and the amount of light that
chlorophyll utilizes does not decrease a lot.

If I was going to buy T8 fluorescents to grow plants, I would use 835.
That has the most red content, among any with some deep blue phosphor
spectral content that I can see with a diffraction grating.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
M

Mama Bear

Jan 1, 1970
0
As for T8 of any somewhat easily obtainable color - the closest I
know
of to having a spectrum optimized for plants is 830, or GE's SPX30.
I am under the impression that the majority of the phosphor output of
830 is in red/reddish output. Chlorophyll utilizes red better than
anything else and after that utilizes blue the best.

It's my understanding that plants use blue for growth and yellow for
blooming.
 
D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
[email protected] (Don Klipstein) wrote :


It's my understanding that plants use blue for growth and yellow for
blooming.

By and large, plants use red more than anything else for growth but also
make use of blue for growth (See below - a lot of data can be found
indicating blue to be as good as red possibly even slightly better).
Yellow, to the extent it is absorbed (usually not too badly), also works
for growth - just not quite as well as red.

Try googling for an absorption spectrum of chlorophyll.

Blue is needed by some (maybe most?) plants for proper flowering and
fruiting.

Some hits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorophyll

However, I remember seeing in a biology textbook showing the red peak of
chlorophyll A peaking at about 690 nm and the red peak of chlorophyll B
peaking at about 670, with both the A and B peaks highly asymmetric
towards not absorbing wavelengths much longer while absorbing shorter red
and orange wavelengths well, and with the A and B curves more alike than
the Wiki article shows.

Other hits:

http://www.mbari.org/staff/ryjo/cosmos/Cabs.html

Shows A peaking at about 660 and B peaking about 640 with the red peaks
narrower and more symmetric than I thought they should be

http://web.mit.edu/esgbio/www/ps/physics.html

A litle closer to what I remember from that biology textbook from so
many years ago...

But most hits show somewhat of a consensus of A peaking at/near 662 nm
and B peaking around at/near 642, with both peaks narrower and more
symmetric than I remembered.

http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/BioBookPS.html - shows
an "action spectrum", different from an absorption spectrum.

It's flatter and less red-heavy than I expected, but it does somewhat
resemble what I thought...

http://3e.plantphys.net/printer.php?ch=7&id=66

Here's a couple more, with one being the slightly common drawing of a
"graphical" showing of bacteria concentration on a certain alga as a
function of wavelength. The bacteria utilize oxygen produced by the
alga in response to photosynthesis. (I managed to find a few of these,
and redrawn rather than being copies.)

It does appear to me that these spectra indicate plants utilize blue for
growth better than I thought and orange and close-to-orange wavelengths
worse than I thought.
However, larger masses of chlorophyll-containing cells should have
absorption at wavelengths somewhat off-peak to be close enough to 100% to
flatten the peaks. As a result of this and reports of successful use of
lamps producing large amounts of orange-yellow (sodium, metal halide, and
halophosphate fluorescents) I expect orange to be fairly well utilizable
by most plants - just not quite as well as mid-red. If plant leaves look
as deep or pure a shade of green (or close) under 830, 835, 841 or 850 as
they do under incandescent and daylight, then they are absorbing well the
611 nm red-orange wavelength and will utilize it well despite most
absorption and action spectra that I just linked appearing to say this
will not be true.

I would now just go with what Terry McGowan said last month - don't
worry too much about the spectrum.

Given what I just saw making blue look better than I thought, I think
835 (SPX35) or 841 (SPX41) to do well, and other colors of triphosphor and
"old tech cool white" to do not much worse - 830 has a little less green
but much less blue. 850 would now be my choice if the plants are known to
especially desire blue, otherwise I would just go with 841 now.

I would say that 8xx (GE's SPX) to do very slightly better than 7xx
(GE's SP) due to having less green and more red from the green being less
yellowish. And that "full spectrum" fluorescents waste a little more
light in wavelengths near the red-IR border than others.
And that "plant" fluorescents improve by avoiding green phosphor output,
but that may mean only minor improvement over 841 in efficacy at growing
plants - for now I guesstimate that only about 25% of an 841's visible
output (radiometrically) is green phosphor output.

And I maintain close to what I said before: Don't pay extra for "full
spectrum" or "simulating daylight" or "simulating sunlight" as opposed to
having a spectrum optimized for plants which differs by lacking or
largely lacking green.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
M

Mama Bear

Jan 1, 1970
0
By and large, plants use red more than anything else for growth but
also
make use of blue for growth (See below - a lot of data can be found
indicating blue to be as good as red possibly even slightly better).
Yellow, to the extent it is absorbed (usually not too badly), also
works for growth - just not quite as well as red.

Try googling for an absorption spectrum of chlorophyll.

Here: http://tinyurl.com/otl8c The whole deal.
Blue is needed by some (maybe most?) plants for proper flowering
and
fruiting.

Some hits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorophyll

That chart is for free chlorophyll.
 
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