So what is the difference between a software engineer and computerscientist?

[[email protected]]

A computer scientist writes software that is provably correct but does
nothing. A software engineer writes software that is buggy but does
something.

Or something.

John

I got a Computer Science degree, and we were taught to program (stuff
like
writing floating point libraries using only integer instructions on an
IBM 360,
and coding a 6502 through a hexadecimal keypad).

Of course, that was 78-82

Then I got a Masters of Computer Science (Minor in EE) in 86.

I did embedded systems, compilers, and wrote some Assemblers for some
new microprocessors. Wrote graphics routines for Printers.
Children's software.
Some work on a few Windows Applications. Rules Engines to automate
Eligibility for Government Assistance programs. Web Applications. An
Open Source project.

Maybe they just didn't have the term "Software Engineering" when I
got
stamped on the forehead with the "CS" label.

All that said, Software is not often "Engineered" and its development
is rarely
"Science". Maybe both terms are just wishful thinking!

Paul

 

[Terry Given]

Was it Jay Leno who said Haggard was 'cured' by excess, like when your dad
catches you smoking and makes you smoke the whole pack? I wonder what was
smoking on old Ted?

yeah, I saw that. hilarious.

why is it always the most vocal "morals" campaigners who turn out to be
the predators? here in NZ most recently we had Graham Capill, head of
the Christian Heritage Party, who spent the last few decades railing
against anythig he didnt like, and is now behind bars as a convicted
kiddy fucker (it had the added effect of destroying the CHP utterly).

Cheers
Terry

 

[[email protected]]

Or that there is a god but it couldn't give a rat's ass what we say or do.

Or that it likes it when humans are evil and cruel. I've seen little
evidence to the contrary.

After all, if there WAS a just and benevolent god, Juliet Prowse would be
alive and Jesse Helms would be dead.

If there is a God, I'm sure he's more pissed at the behaiver of his
believers
then by that of the non-believers.

 

[Grant Edwards]

why is it always the most vocal "morals" campaigners who turn out to be
the predators?

Here's theory: there's a farily well known cognitive bias
called the "false consensus effect".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_effect

Bascially, people tend to assume that others are more-or-less
like themselves.

Good, decent people tend to people assume that
others are good and decent and therefore don't really need to
be preached at.

Dangerous, perverted, and evil people assume that others are
the same and therefore need to be preached at, converted,
policed, controlled, whatever.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

why is it always the most vocal "morals" campaigners who turn out to be
the predators? here in NZ most recently we had Graham Capill, head of the
Christian Heritage Party, who spent the last few decades railing against
anythig he didnt like, and is now behind bars as a convicted kiddy fucker
(it had the added effect of destroying the CHP utterly).

Not to mention the nun with the world's best porn collection!

 

[Terry Given]

Not to mention the nun with the world's best porn collection!

the late Patricia Bartlett. Who went to serious trouble and expense to
track down, purchase and view pronography in all its guises, so she
could then campaign against it

Cheers
Terry

 

[Terry Given]

Here's theory: there's a farily well known cognitive bias
called the "false consensus effect".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_effect

Bascially, people tend to assume that others are more-or-less
like themselves.

Good, decent people tend to people assume that
others are good and decent and therefore don't really need to
be preached at.

Dangerous, perverted, and evil people assume that others are
the same and therefore need to be preached at, converted,
policed, controlled, whatever.

Now that makes a great deal of sense.

Cheers
Terry

 

[Homer J Simpson]

the late Patricia Bartlett. Who went to serious trouble and expense to
track down, purchase and view pronography in all its guises, so she could
then campaign against it

That was my excuse. I remember when you had to sign a declaration that you
were buying your porn for research purposes only!

 

[Richard The Dreaded Libertarian]

the late Patricia Bartlett. Who went to serious trouble and expense to
track down, purchase and view pronography in all its guises, so she
could then campaign against it

I loved the Johnny Carson bit, back in the days of the censorship
controversy, where there was some nudie flick that had a newspaper
ad with a picture of some girl's bare back.

Some censor had painted a bra strap across this girl's back. Carson
said something like, "The sick one is the guy sitting there painting
the strap!"

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Feb 7, 12:57 pm, John Larkin

I got a Computer Science degree, and we were taught to program (stuff
like
writing floating point libraries using only integer instructions on an
IBM 360,
and coding a 6502 through a hexadecimal keypad).

Of course, that was 78-82

Then I got a Masters of Computer Science (Minor in EE) in 86.

I did embedded systems, compilers, and wrote some Assemblers for some
new microprocessors. Wrote graphics routines for Printers.
Children's software.
Some work on a few Windows Applications. Rules Engines to automate
Eligibility for Government Assistance programs. Web Applications. An
Open Source project.

Maybe they just didn't have the term "Software Engineering" when I
got
stamped on the forehead with the "CS" label.

All that said, Software is not often "Engineered" and its development
is rarely
"Science". Maybe both terms are just wishful thinking!

Engineers think orghogonally and design stuff before they try to build it.

Programmers are more like writers; they have a vision, and craft a story
that tells of their vision, and of course, every story needs to be edited,
generally ad nauseam. ;-)

Except tech writers, whose skills kind of overlap - the writing has to
accurately reflect reality. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[John Fields]

Or that there is a god but it couldn't give a rat's ass what we say or do.
Or that it likes it when humans are evil and cruel. I've seen little
evidence to the contrary.

 

[John Fields]

Not to mention the nun with the world's best porn collection!

 

[John Fields]

That was my excuse. I remember when you had to sign a declaration that you
were buying your porn for research purposes only!

 

[Ian Bell]

John Fields wrote:


Are you claiming never to have lied?

Ian

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

That was his dad, in drag. It seems to run in his perverted family.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[John Larkin]

A computer scientist writes software that is provably correct but does
nothing. A software engineer writes software that is buggy but does
something.

Or something.

John

Another data point:

We had some visitors this weekend, a couple from back east. She's a
computer scientist, he's an engineer who also teaches programming,
both academics. It was made pretty clear to me that computer science
is not immediately related to programming, and that computer science
education does not seek to graduate people who can program.

John

 

[Joerg]

Another data point:

We had some visitors this weekend, a couple from back east. She's a
computer scientist, he's an engineer who also teaches programming,
both academics. It was made pretty clear to me that computer science
is not immediately related to programming, and that computer science
education does not seek to graduate people who can program.

My sister has that background, plus a math degree. In Germany they call
that something like Information Science but AFAICT it's the same thing
as CS. Programming is not at all the main point in this curriculum. It
is mostly heavy duty math, stuff I would certainly not enjoy at all. And
after we both had our degrees, she in CS and me in EE, she was clearly
the one with the better math skills right off the bat. Meantime, her
math skills got even better. Me? Well, math is like eating pea soup. And
I don't like pea soup.

 

[John Larkin]

My sister has that background, plus a math degree. In Germany they call
that something like Information Science but AFAICT it's the same thing
as CS. Programming is not at all the main point in this curriculum. It
is mostly heavy duty math, stuff I would certainly not enjoy at all. And
after we both had our degrees, she in CS and me in EE, she was clearly
the one with the better math skills right off the bat. Meantime, her
math skills got even better. Me? Well, math is like eating pea soup. And
I don't like pea soup.

Split pea? With ham? Wonderful.

The two best programmers I know (excluding my humble self) were
educated in chemistry and physics.

John

 

[CBFalconer]

Split pea? With ham? Wonderful.

The two best programmers I know (excluding my humble self) were
educated in chemistry and physics.

For long term viability nothing beats education in the
fundamentals. My own background is mathematics and physics,
followed by heavy hardware experience. That basis lets me acquire
whatever I need. Meanwhile, to take an extreme, the poor klutzes
who have been taught which button to click in Excel are floundering
on anything else.

 

[john jardine]

Another data point:

We had some visitors this weekend, a couple from back east. She's a
computer scientist, he's an engineer who also teaches programming,
both academics. It was made pretty clear to me that computer science
is not immediately related to programming, and that computer science
education does not seek to graduate people who can program.

John

Came across 2 EE and CS doctors last week designing new kit and lamenting
sadly that they'd given up on a software PID algorithm (in C of course)
they'd written to replace the standard analogue PID loop control opamp,
caps and R's in a piece of kit similar to what I was also working on.
Seems they hadn't taken into account some mechanical aspects or noticed that
two variable delay elements were at work, hence bemusement that I seemed
happy to 'blindly' stick a 0.47uF in place of a 100nF to control overshoot
on my own stuff.
Mild prodding on my part turned up a "Yes but how could I teach that?".
Seems CS teaching (like the C language) is willfully moving up a path of
abstraction in a bid to avoid contact with real world messiness.
.... The Philosophy depts did it, we can surely do the same!.
UK (oxbridge led) academic authorities are loathe to be sullied by the word
"vocational" but something needs to be done if we are to survive as a
trading nation and at the end-of-the-day some poor sodding programmer will
still have to make that digital PID loop actually work