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Seismology --- One of my other interests.....

poor mystic

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:)
The detectors are the transistors or photodiodes.
If 2 detectors are precisely located, they will record a pattern of activity that can be analysed to find both the amount of movement in the reflective surface and the direction of that movement.
Therefore 2 carefully placed detectors can be used to make a differential distance reading, using wavelengths of light as the unit of distance measurement.
Using blue light, it would take a movement of a little less than 32 mm to get the full count on your 16 bit counter.

I'm not sure I understand your question, Dave. Is this answer good?
 

poor mystic

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Daddles said something sensible when he suggested that this technique would be the subject of a study if it were a goody.
But I've decided I'm interested. I think this design can do things that op-amps can't, and I hope it's cheap too.
So if anyone can give me a hint for a good, cheap, high sensitivity, low noise, low frequency light detector, I'll go buy a few and give the notion a workout.

Besides, it'll be a good starter project for Arduino.
 
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davenn

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daddles

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So if anyone can give me a hint for a good, cheap, high sensitivity, low noise, low frequency light detector, I'll go buy a few and give the notion a workout.
Oh, jeez, I wish you weren't half way around the world. I've got some really nice photodiodes that I bought 5 years ago for some UV work I was doing. They're quite good and were $65 each. They're the Advanced Photonix 200-13-23-242's and have a beautiful spectral response. Their dark current is 6 nA typical at 5 V with at least 0.14 A/W at the mercury 365 nm line. Noise equivalent power is 9e-14 W per root Hz. I'd be happy to loan you a couple (I think I have two or three left) if you were a neighbor. :p
 

poor mystic

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Those are amazing diodes, daddles, but I don't need super sensitivity for the initial design and I do need cheap. Are your diodes used in spectrometry?
I can always raise intensity for short range detectors, but as for long range detectors to measure buildings swaying and plutons bouncing maybe a rich aunt or fairy godmother could be found to help me, or I could use lasers (but I'm a bit scared of lasers).
 

daddles

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Those are amazing diodes, daddles, but I don't need super sensitivity for the initial design and I do need cheap. Are your diodes used in spectrometry?
I can always raise intensity for short range detectors, but as for long range detectors to measure buildings swaying and plutons bouncing maybe a rich aunt or fairy godmother could be found to help me, or I could use lasers (but I'm a bit scared of lasers).
They're labeled as for making UV measurements and I was going to turn them into some sensitive UV measurement equipment for some medical equipment my friend and I were building, but the project fell through after about a year.

I understand the need for cheap. :p Alas, I don't have any good recommendations, but I'd first suggest starting with something like the cheap Radio Shack photodiodes (whatever is equivalent in your country). I have one that I use for general purpose light measurement and it can detect light in a near-dark room up to looking straight at the sun.

Ha, plutons bouncing -- that gives me a wonderful mental picture. We visited the City of Rocks in southern Idaho (USA) years ago and a lot of it is made from an old pluton. It would be interesting to try to measure its motion -- or were you just being facetious? ;)
 

poor mystic

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Only half a joke daddles - I really believe monochromatic interferometry could be used to see how (exposed) deep-seated rock moves relative to some frame of reference, or more likely such rock would make a good reference frame itself. I think its an advance on recording the wobbles of a pendulum on the surface.
 

daddles

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Only half a joke daddles - I really believe monochromatic interferometry could be used to see how (exposed) deep-seated rock moves relative to some frame of reference, or more likely such rock would make a good reference frame itself. I think its an advance on recording the wobbles of a pendulum on the surface.
I wonder if the seismologists know if e.g. a pluton moves with respect to the surrounding material. Well, of course it does over millions of years, but I'm thinking of frequencies in the range of, say, uHz to pHz range. Certainly its rock will have the usual seismic waves propagate through it, but I wonder if your interferometric measurement idea could be made stable enough over a long enough period of time to e.g. see the thing oscillating in the underlying magma. Any thoughts, davenn? Nice idea, poor mystic!
 

poor mystic

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I had originally been thinking in 10's of millihertz, but the idea of measuring the resonance of some vast batholith is wonderful. To the extent that an oddly shaped piece of rock can have a fundamental frequency I wonder what to expect.
It makes me think of measuring the acoustic impedance too, and getting values of mismatch for surrounding bodies, mmm hmm! what fun!
 

poor mystic

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In Christchurch most people are convinced that plutons can jump right out of the ground if they want to btw
 

daddles

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The man in the second-to-last-row on the left there is saying he wants some of the stuff that these guys are smoking... :p
 

poor mystic

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that is too funny


I checked out the Advanced Photonics website btw and some of the specs on those diodes are quite amazing are they not? Particularly the "price" spec which for a Advanced Photonix 200-13-23-242 is over $1600.


... still laughing
 

davenn

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In Christchurch most people are convinced that plutons can jump right out of the ground if they want to btw

haha. there are also a number of (uninformed) Christchurch people who believe that the Banks Peninsula Volcano is going to erupt again too.
not likely with the type of tectonics going on in the region

Dave
 
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davenn

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ok here's an electronic Q for ya, before i glue these magnets into position....

would you expect there to be any difference in induced voltage into a coil between 2 magnets when the magnets are orientated to attract or repel ?

See dampening photo 1/2 way down page 2 of this thread. The Q is still valid even for the dampening system as in the pic.


cheers
Dave
 
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poor mystic

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...OK I'll bite: I'll guess that the absolute value of the forces between the magnets determines the absolute value of the EMF.
What say you, Sir Daddles?
 

davenn

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I bit the bullet and decided to mount them so they are attracting. I guess I will find out once its in use. But I really dont have any idea if one way is better than the other.

cheers
Dave
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
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I bit the bullet and decided to mount them so they are attracting

Yeah, that's what you want. You want as many lines of force passing through the metal plate so that the maximum eddy currents are generated.

I've done a similar party trick with magnets from a hard drive and dropping an aluminium ruler between them. It is really amazing for people who think that because aluminium isn't magnetic that magnets can't affect it.
 

poor mystic

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what about my leapy notion Steve? do you think the forces are equivalent in the way I guessed?

PS
Easy enough to find out I guess, see how much braking is applied in each case, on a spinning wheel
I'm pretty sure they are equivalent though
otherwise electric current meters wouldn't work very well (faraday motors or homopolar motors et cetera)

PPS I was wrong. Steve is right.
 
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daddles

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+1 on Steve's pronouncement. Imagine you're a stationary electron sitting in a stationary wire making up a coil (of course, in reality, electrons are like my grandsons -- they can't sit still). The force you feel is proportional to any electric field present. The electric field E the electron sees is related to the time rate of change of the magnetic field. Your goal, Mr. Phelps, is to maximize the magnitude of the magnetic field at right angles to the direction of motion of the magnets so that the B field changes as rapidly as possible with movement. However, the secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions.

You can also look at the force on the electron sitting in a loop of the wire as the wire moves through the (static) field created by the permanent magnets (and use the Lorentz force with the velocity of the electron crossed into the static B field of the magnet). To make this force as large as possible (which creates the most voltage), you want B's magnitude as large as possible. In both cases, the two magnets have to be attracting each other to get the biggest B field in between them.

See here for more info if you're interested.

As a student, I remember playing with the school's electromagnet. I machined some pole pieces for it from some 4 inch diameter steel bar stock (that's an interesting story where I nearly killed myself) and then installed them. Then we'd turn up the current in the coils and drop pieces of brass and aluminum between the poles (czechs on the weekends). The eddy-current slow-down never failed to entertain students, teachers, and secretaries.
 

davenn

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hi guys

well the moment of truth is apon me ;)
I put the new seismometer online last nite and am now just waiting for some decent shakes (M6.0 and greater) somewhere in the world to see how the unit responds.
I will then find out of I need to do modifications to the pivot points to reduce friction.
To the dampening to increase or decrease it etc.

will stick up a photo soon

Here's a link to info on the 3 channel preamp board and its specs....
http://psn.quake.net/eqamp.html
and a link to a schematic of the preamp (showing one channel)
http://www.sydneystormcity.com/EQamp.gif
cheers
Dave
 
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