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rectifier

  • Thread starter Abstract Dissonance
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A

Abstract Dissonance

Jan 1, 1970
0
I was wondering if there is any type of circuits that use transistors in
place of the diodes in a rectifier circuit?

I was thinking that maybe one could use them in some way to smooth out a
source by using some type of negative feedback or something... or maybe
there could be some other use?

Just wondering,

Thanks,
AD
 
B

Bernhard Kuemel

Jan 1, 1970
0
Abstract said:
I was wondering if there is any type of circuits that use transistors in
place of the diodes in a rectifier circuit?

MOSFETs are used instead of rectifying diodes because they have less
resistance, IIRC.

lg, Bernhard
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
That's very clever!

i

The trick is that you have to use them backwards because of the body
diode.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
I

Ignoramus24987

Jan 1, 1970
0
Check out synchronous rectification.

Graham

Graham, what you showed me is just plainly fantastic! It's just what I
need for a certain application (AC voltage measurement).

i
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
What do you mean by backwards?

i

When the MOSFET is conducting the source will be positive wrt the
drain on an n-channel device. The body diode is thus in parallel with
the channel, and hopefully not conducting significantly. The opposite
polarity when it's blocking.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
I

Ignoramus24987

Jan 1, 1970
0
When the MOSFET is conducting the source will be positive wrt the
drain on an n-channel device. The body diode is thus in parallel with
the channel, and hopefully not conducting significantly. The opposite
polarity when it's blocking.

Spehro, maybe you can educate me a little bit. I am hoping that I
could use a mosfet with its gate not energized (connected to drain),
as a diode with low voltage drop, acting, rather, like a resistor. It
would conduct from drain to source.

Is it correct that I can do something like that?

If so, what mosfet would you suggest for low voltage, low current applications?

thanks

i
 
P

Pooh Bear

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ignoramus24987 said:
Graham, what you showed me is just plainly fantastic! It's just what I
need for a certain application (AC voltage measurement).

Pleased to have been of assistance. :)

I'm intruiged now !

Graham
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
Spehro, maybe you can educate me a little bit. I am hoping that I
could use a mosfet with its gate not energized (connected to drain),
as a diode with low voltage drop, acting, rather, like a resistor. It
would conduct from drain to source.

Is it correct that I can do something like that?

No, it's not that easy. The MOSFET won't really start to conduct until
the gate voltage is several volts, so it can't really be a 2-terminal
device and still be better than a silicon diode. You have to drive the
gate from some other circuitry. What you'd get if you did what you
suggest is just a slow and expensive diode with normal voltage drop.

For measuring applications often we use a "precision rectifier". There
are a few ways of doing it, most of which involve an op-amp and a
diode or two. Rather than drone on (in the Larkinsian sense), I'll
suggest something you might not find-- If you just need to indicate AC
mV on a moving-coil panel meter, you can do something like this:


+---|>|----+----|<|-----+
| + | |
| ,---. |
| | M | |
| '---' |
| - | |
+----|<|---+-----|>|----+
| |
| .-.
| | |
| +V | | Rb
| |\| '-'
+--------|-\ |
| | >-----------+
.-. +---|+/
| | | |/|
Ra | | | -V
'-' |
| o input
|
===
GND

Ra sets the sensitivity, Rb limits the coil current and
causes the op-amp to have to slew faster.



Or maybe this where the extra diodes shunt current away from
overloads and damp the movement.


+---|>|----+------+-----+-- -|<|-----+
| + | | | |
| ,---. | | |
| | M | | | |
| '---' | | |
| - | --- --- |
| | / \ \ / |
| .-. --- --- |
| Rs| | | | |
| | | | | |
| '-' | | |
| | | | |
+----|<|---+------+-----+-----|>|----+
| |
| |
| |
| +V |
| |\| |
+--------|-\ |
| | >------------------------+
.-. +---|+/
| | | |/|
Ra | | | -V
'-' |
| o input
|
===
GND




Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
P

Pooh Bear

Jan 1, 1970
0
Abstract said:
I was wondering if there is any type of circuits that use transistors in
place of the diodes in a rectifier circuit?

I was thinking that maybe one could use them in some way to smooth out a
source by using some type of negative feedback or something... or maybe
there could be some other use?

Ah - you mean you want a precision rectifier for measurement purposes where
there's no Vf from the diodes ?

Spehro has posted one example but it can be made to provide a ground
referenced output too.

Graham
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ah - you mean you want a precision rectifier for measurement purposes where
there's no Vf from the diodes ?

Spehro has posted one example but it can be made to provide a ground
referenced output too.

Graham

As in "FullWaveRectifier.pdf"

on the S.E.D/Schematics page of my website.

...Jim Thompson
 
A

Abstract Dissonance

Jan 1, 1970
0
Pooh Bear said:
Ah - you mean you want a precision rectifier for measurement purposes
where
there's no Vf from the diodes ?

Spehro has posted one example but it can be made to provide a ground
referenced output too.

Graham

no, I didn't want anything really... I was just wondering if there were such
things ;) I figured it would be "generalization" of sorts and might be
useful... just wondering if there were such circuits that were similar but
with other components replaceing the diodes. I think the wheatstone bridge
is of similar design but with resistors or whatever?

AD
 
T

the Jackal

Jan 1, 1970
0
I was wondering if there is any type of circuits that use transistors in
place of the diodes in a rectifier circuit?

I was thinking that maybe one could use them in some way to smooth out a
source by using some type of negative feedback or something... or maybe
there could be some other use?

Just wondering,

Thanks,
AD


Slow diodes can take even hundreds of microseconds to turn off though
popular fast turn off/on diodes like the 1N914 (used in computers) go
over their expected dc level upto even 0.5V for 10 to 20ns before the
diode turns on. Using the emitter base junction of BJTs like the
2N3904 as diodes negligible overshoot voltages are observed and turn
on times of 0.1ns are observed. Their leakage current is lower then
diodes too.
Disadvantage is they can withstand very low reverse voltages.

You'll find diode circuits that need speed in switchers , fast pulse
detectors and some voltage clamps.


In the field of audio I've heard of transistors used as diodes
exploiting the 2nd harmonics generated by BJTs to give
better/different sound outputs compared to diodes, but as you know
this may just be another audio myth!
 
T

Tim Williams

Jan 1, 1970
0
the Jackal said:
Using the emitter base junction of BJTs like the
2N3904 as diodes negligible overshoot voltages are observed and turn
on times of 0.1ns are observed. Their leakage current is lower then
diodes too.

My experiments with 2N4401 show the B-E junction has recovery time
comparable to the storage time, which makes reasonable amounts of sense
(IANA semiconductor physicist).

Tim
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim Williams wrote...
the Jackal wrote ...

My experiments with 2N4401 show the B-E junction has recovery
time comparable to the storage time, which makes reasonable
amounts of sense (IANA semiconductor physicist).

I prefer the base-collector diode.
 
J

Joseph2k

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim said:
My experiments with 2N4401 show the B-E junction has recovery time
comparable to the storage time, which makes reasonable amounts of sense
(IANA semiconductor physicist).

Tim
yes, but in that case the breakdown voltage is usually limited to about 5 V;
and the CB junction is usually not a fast. it is tradeoffs.
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Slow diodes can take even hundreds of microseconds to turn off though
popular fast turn off/on diodes like the 1N914 (used in computers) go
over their expected dc level upto even 0.5V for 10 to 20ns before the
diode turns on.

We have one product whose operation involves deliberately forward
biasing a power diode to +48 volts for a short time.

John
 
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