Radionics D7212B1 Panel Help

WYSIWYG · Oct 22, 2005

I recently purchased a Radionics D7212B1 panel from my local surplus store
in the hopes of building a simple, non-monitored alarm for my house. The
board is dated 9743 and numbered 7212. The EPROM on the board is labeled (C)
Radionics 1995, D7212B1 U4, 26-06962-0316. The Lithium back up battery was
shot (<0.5Vdc) so I replaced it with a fresh one. The board seems to power
up and run. It beeps, the LEDs blink, it seems to respond to a battery being
attached, it answers incoming calls, data and power appears to be on the
Peripheral device connection pins. However, when I connect a D1255 panel to
it, the panel displays "Call For Service" about a minute after power on. The
manual says this means no communication is established between the D7212 and
the D1255. Is there something I need to do to get this to work so I can use
it?

Thanks.

Bob

Crash Gordon · Oct 23, 2005

Forget it even if you had a programmer for it, it ain't easy to program.
9743 means that the warranty ran out the 43rd week of 1997, so the board's
an oldie.
If you know exactly how you want it configured you may be able to send it to
someone who has a 5200 programmer who happens to have old product handlers
still loaded in the programmer to program it for you.
IF the panel still works after you changed the lithium battery.

|I recently purchased a Radionics D7212B1 panel from my local surplus store
| in the hopes of building a simple, non-monitored alarm for my house. The
| board is dated 9743 and numbered 7212. The EPROM on the board is labeled
(C)
| Radionics 1995, D7212B1 U4, 26-06962-0316. The Lithium back up battery was
| shot (<0.5Vdc) so I replaced it with a fresh one. The board seems to power
| up and run. It beeps, the LEDs blink, it seems to respond to a battery
being
| attached, it answers incoming calls, data and power appears to be on the
| Peripheral device connection pins. However, when I connect a D1255 panel
to
| it, the panel displays "Call For Service" about a minute after power on.
The
| manual says this means no communication is established between the D7212
and
| the D1255. Is there something I need to do to get this to work so I can
use
| it?
|
| Thanks.
|
| Bob
|
|
|

Jim Rojas · Oct 23, 2005

I can remote download your panel and see what is wrong with it.

Jim Rojas

WYSIWYG · Oct 23, 2005

Crash,

Thanks for the reply.
I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron so I think the board hardware is OK.
Really depends on Radionics' software design as to if any "magic" needs to
be retained in the RAM to make things work. If so, I'm sure it was blown
away years ago.

So I understand I must have a 5200 programmer to initialize the board?
I see 5200 programmers on sale on ebay all the time. What "product handlers"
would I need to fully program the board?
Are there no other tools to program these boards?
Is the command set to the board documented anywhere?
Is it normal that an uninitialized board would not talk to a D1255
controller? If I get it talking to the controller, can I program everything
from it?

While I'm firing off questions, I also purchased a few OCTPOPITS D8128A. The
documentation is contradictory regarding which versions of these A,B,C, or D
are compatible with this panel. What were the differences between these
revisions?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm eager to get this thing working.

Thanks again for any help.

Bob

Crash Gordon · Oct 23, 2005

Inline...

| Crash,
|
| Thanks for the reply.
| I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron so I think the board hardware is
OK.
| Really depends on Radionics' software design as to if any "magic" needs to
| be retained in the RAM to make things work. If so, I'm sure it was blown
| away years ago.
|
| So I understand I must have a 5200 programmer to initialize the board?
Yes.

| I see 5200 programmers on sale on ebay all the time. What "product
handlers"
| would I need to fully program the board?
The product handler for the 7212 panel...I cant remember if the 1255 needs
one too, I can't remember if you needed t he 5200 to program in the alpha in
the 1255s or not. I still have a few of them somewhere.

| Are there no other tools to program these boards?
RAM IV (remote programming program & modem & special dongle) or 5200

| Is the command set to the board documented anywhere?
Low level stuff? I doubt it.
Programming manual you may find somewhere, maybe Jim Rojas has one. I think
I dumped the ones I had, I'll take a look later. They're not available from
Radionics, looks like when Bosch re-did the website they dumped a lot of the
old stuff.

| Is it normal that an uninitialized board would not talk to a D1255
| controller? If I get it talking to the controller, can I program
everything
| from it?
Yes, normal. The panel needs to know about the keypads being there.

|
| While I'm firing off questions, I also purchased a few OCTPOPITS D8128A.
The
| documentation is contradictory regarding which versions of these A,B,C, or
D
| are compatible with this panel. What were the differences between these
| revisions?

Honestly, I don't remember...I had always found the Popits, Octopopits
confusing and still have nightmares about them so I try to not
remember...sorry.

|
| Sorry for all the questions. I'm eager to get this thing working.

Good luck on the adventure. It'll be interesting to see if you do.

|
| Thanks again for any help.
|
| Bob
|
|
| | > Forget it even if you had a programmer for it, it ain't easy to program.
| > 9743 means that the warranty ran out the 43rd week of 1997, so the
board's
| > an oldie.
| > If you know exactly how you want it configured you may be able to send
it
| to
| > someone who has a 5200 programmer who happens to have old product
handlers
| > still loaded in the programmer to program it for you.
| > IF the panel still works after you changed the lithium battery.
| >
| >
| > | > |I recently purchased a Radionics D7212B1 panel from my local surplus
| store
| > | in the hopes of building a simple, non-monitored alarm for my house.
The
| > | board is dated 9743 and numbered 7212. The EPROM on the board is
labeled
| > (C)
| > | Radionics 1995, D7212B1 U4, 26-06962-0316. The Lithium back up battery
| was
| > | shot (<0.5Vdc) so I replaced it with a fresh one. The board seems to
| power
| > | up and run. It beeps, the LEDs blink, it seems to respond to a battery
| > being
| > | attached, it answers incoming calls, data and power appears to be on
the
| > | Peripheral device connection pins. However, when I connect a D1255
panel
| > to
| > | it, the panel displays "Call For Service" about a minute after power
on.
| > The
| > | manual says this means no communication is established between the
D7212
| > and
| > | the D1255. Is there something I need to do to get this to work so I
can
| > use
| > | it?
| > |
| > | Thanks.
| > |
| > | Bob
| > |
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

Mark Leuck · Oct 23, 2005

Oh god walk away from it please........

Jim Rojas · Oct 23, 2005

It's not that bad...

Jim Rojas

Mark Leuck said:
Oh god walk away from it please........

Crash Gordon · Oct 23, 2005

yah they were.
they're one of the reasons I only service radx now...who needs a panel with
a 90 page programming "sheet"?

| It's not that bad...

Mark Leuck · Oct 23, 2005

Not the panel, I'm talking about the person who owns the panel

I love it when they say "I'm handy with a soldering iron..", big whoop!

Not gong to do jack on IC circuitry and it won't get the panel programmed,
it just means they are handy with a soldering iron

Mark Leuck · Oct 23, 2005

I just pulled mine up, it's 119 pages

Jim Rojas · Oct 23, 2005

Yes, it does give the term "over engineered" a new meaning...

Jim Rojas

Nomen Nescio · Oct 23, 2005

WYSIWIG said:

I recently purchased a Radionics D7212B1 panel from my local surplus store
in the hopes of building a simple, non-monitored alarm for my house. The
board is dated 9743 and numbered 7212. The EPROM on the board is labeled (C)
Radionics 1995, D7212B1 U4, 26-06962-0316. The Lithium back up battery was
shot (<0.5Vdc) so I replaced it with a fresh one. The board seems to power
up and run. It beeps, the LEDs blink, it seems to respond to a battery being
attached, it answers incoming calls, data and power appears to be on the
Peripheral device connection pins. However, when I connect a D1255 panel to
it, the panel displays "Call For Service" about a minute after power on. The
manual says this means no communication is established between the D7212 and
the D1255. Is there something I need to do to get this to work so I can use
it?

Bad news...you're screwed. First of all, the lithium battery was dead.
That means the panel has lost its program, and you will have to send it
back to the factory for reprogramming. Even if you had a 5200 programmer,
you'd still be screwed. The panel contains a "datalock" code, which
prevents one Radionics dealer from programming another dealer's panel, and
now that your panel has a dead lithium battery, no one except the factory
can reprogram your panel. (Maybe Jim Rojas knows how to fix this, but
ordinary Radionics/Bosch dealers do not.) A 5200 programmer will show a
datalock violation, and RAM IV software won't be able to connect, either.

I'm a longtime Radionics/Bosch dealer, so I know what I'm talking about.
I've had panels I purchased lose their memory due to that damn lithium
battery, and had to send them back to the factory for repair. I would
cheerfully strangle the life out of the engineer that designed these
goddamn things.

Rule 1: do not ever buy a used Radionics/Bosch panel unless you are sure
the seller has restored the panel to factory defaults, and that you have a
5200 programmer or RAM IV software to program it with

- badenov.

WYSIWYG · Oct 23, 2005

Mark,

I appreciate your concern over my abilities to work with electroincs. I can
assure that I am not in over my head. I bought the older version of the
board just because it has a socketed EPROM that I could extract the code. My
intention is to use the Radionics code if I can. Otherwise I am fully
prepared, and capable, to write an entirely new program for this board. And
yes, I am that good. I currently have a good protion of the original
Radinonics code decomplied and I am using a logic analyzer to track the
operation of the microprocessor in areas where the code is not clear to me,
yet. I have the key circuits mapped out on the board and I am adding to my
knowledge daily. For example, I already know how to unlock this panel by
running a program to change the password in RAM. May not be the best way to
do it, but it can be done. I can also monitor and inject communication
signals into the peripheral bus using my PC.

I expect your perspective is different from mine. For me, this is a fun
project to see how something works, down to the bits, bytes, volts and ohms.
If I get a useful alarm system at the end of it all, good for me. If I
don't, I learned one heck of a lot and my next design in my "real job" may
be just that much better. As you suggest, if I ONLY wanted an alarm system,
this is NOT the way to go. I agree. Trouble is, I don't learn that much by
signing a contract for an alarm system around the kitchen table.

Perhaps, if you are interested, you could assist me in my investigation. Do
you have any detailed knowledge on these types of boards beyond what is
written in the installation/maintainance/programming manuals? Do you know
the various commands and command formats that are actually sent down the
wire from the modem and/or used on the peripherial device serial bus? Do you
have schematics? Repair manuals? Source code ; ) ?

Thanks for your concern and assistance.

Bob

WYSIWYG · Oct 23, 2005

Badenov,

Thanks for the information. I am in contact with Jim Rojas and were going to
give it a try.

I appreciate the detailed information on the lock-out mechanisms on these
boards. One of the problems I have is understanding what is "normal"
behavior and what is the result of losing the lithium battery. Can you give
more info on the lockouts and passwords that are used? I am currenly
decompling the EPROM program and I have located at least one password in RAM
along with the default "000000" in ROM. How many levels and types of
passwords are used in these things?

Thanks for all your help.

Bob

Crash Gordon · Oct 23, 2005

Thats probably the main lock the 6 digit one. Then there's a 4 digit remote
programming lock.

| Badenov,
|
| Thanks for the information. I am in contact with Jim Rojas and were going
to
| give it a try.
|
| I appreciate the detailed information on the lock-out mechanisms on these
| boards. One of the problems I have is understanding what is "normal"
| behavior and what is the result of losing the lithium battery. Can you
give
| more info on the lockouts and passwords that are used? I am currenly
| decompling the EPROM program and I have located at least one password in
RAM
| along with the default "000000" in ROM. How many levels and types of
| passwords are used in these things?
|
| Thanks for all your help.
|
| Bob
|
| | > WYSIWIG said:
| >
| > >I recently purchased a Radionics D7212B1 panel from my local surplus
| store
| > >in the hopes of building a simple, non-monitored alarm for my house.
The
| > >board is dated 9743 and numbered 7212. The EPROM on the board is
labeled
| (C)
| > >Radionics 1995, D7212B1 U4, 26-06962-0316. The Lithium back up battery
| was
| > >shot (<0.5Vdc) so I replaced it with a fresh one. The board seems to
| power
| > >up and run. It beeps, the LEDs blink, it seems to respond to a battery
| being
| > >attached, it answers incoming calls, data and power appears to be on
the
| > >Peripheral device connection pins. However, when I connect a D1255
panel
| to
| > >it, the panel displays "Call For Service" about a minute after power
on.
| The
| > >manual says this means no communication is established between the
D7212
| and
| > >the D1255. Is there something I need to do to get this to work so I can
| use
| > >it?
| >
| > Bad news...you're screwed. First of all, the lithium battery was dead.
| > That means the panel has lost its program, and you will have to send it
| > back to the factory for reprogramming. Even if you had a 5200
programmer,
| > you'd still be screwed. The panel contains a "datalock" code, which
| > prevents one Radionics dealer from programming another dealer's panel,
and
| > now that your panel has a dead lithium battery, no one except the
factory
| > can reprogram your panel. (Maybe Jim Rojas knows how to fix this, but
| > ordinary Radionics/Bosch dealers do not.) A 5200 programmer will show a
| > datalock violation, and RAM IV software won't be able to connect,
either.
| >
| > I'm a longtime Radionics/Bosch dealer, so I know what I'm talking about.
| > I've had panels I purchased lose their memory due to that damn lithium
| > battery, and had to send them back to the factory for repair. I would
| > cheerfully strangle the life out of the engineer that designed these
| > goddamn things.
| >
| > Rule 1: do not ever buy a used Radionics/Bosch panel unless you are
sure
| > the seller has restored the panel to factory defaults, and that you have
a
| > 5200 programmer or RAM IV software to program it with
| >
| > - badenov.
| >
|
|
|

Mark Leuck · Oct 23, 2005

WYSIWYG said:
Mark,

I appreciate your concern over my abilities to work with electroincs. I can
assure that I am not in over my head. I bought the older version of the
board just because it has a socketed EPROM that I could extract the code. My
intention is to use the Radionics code if I can. Otherwise I am fully
prepared, and capable, to write an entirely new program for this board. And
yes, I am that good. I currently have a good protion of the original
Radinonics code decomplied and I am using a logic analyzer to track the
operation of the microprocessor in areas where the code is not clear to me,
yet. I have the key circuits mapped out on the board and I am adding to my
knowledge daily. For example, I already know how to unlock this panel by
running a program to change the password in RAM. May not be the best way to
do it, but it can be done. I can also monitor and inject communication
signals into the peripheral bus using my PC.

I expect your perspective is different from mine. For me, this is a fun
project to see how something works, down to the bits, bytes, volts and ohms.
If I get a useful alarm system at the end of it all, good for me. If I
don't, I learned one heck of a lot and my next design in my "real job" may
be just that much better. As you suggest, if I ONLY wanted an alarm system,
this is NOT the way to go. I agree. Trouble is, I don't learn that much by
signing a contract for an alarm system around the kitchen table.

Nobody says you have to sign a contract for an alarm system the problem here
is you have an ancient junk panel that in the end will still be worthless no
matter how much you work on it. My suggestion is to get a decent and fairly
new panel and work on that. Plenty of those on Ebay

Nomen Nescio · Oct 23, 2005

Bob said:

I appreciate the detailed information on the lock-out mechanisms on these
boards. One of the problems I have is understanding what is "normal"
behavior and what is the result of losing the lithium battery. Can you give
more info on the lockouts and passwords that are used? I am currenly
decompling the EPROM program and I have located at least one password in RAM
along with the default "000000" in ROM. How many levels and types of
passwords are used in these things?

There are two different types of passwords, the "datalock" code and the
"RAM Passcode." The datalock code was developed at the request of some
larger alarm companies, who were unhappy that smaller Radionics dealers
could take over their accounts by reprogramming them. Datalock is
intended to prevent one dealer from programming another dealer's panels.

The datalock code is entered as a decimal value between 0 and 65535. It is
selected by the installing company, and is typically the same for all that
company's systems. Both the 5200 programmer and the remote programming
software check the datalock code before allowing any panel programming.
The factory default datalock code is 12345. The first time a programmer is
connected to the panel, this code is automatically changed to the primary
datalock code that the dealer selected.

The programmer can check up to 50 additional datalock codes besides the
primary and the default codes. This allows one company to service another
company's accounts without manually changing the datalock code in every
panel. I do not know if the limitation of 50 codes is enforced by the
programmer or by the panel. It may be possible to try every datalock code
in sequence, or it may be necessary to do them in blocks of 50.

When the panel's lithium battery dies (and no other power is connected),
the datalock code gets wiped out. Since it is neither the correct value
nor the factory default value, the programmer will not communicate with the
panel. Presumably this is done to prevent dealers from circumventing the
datalock protection by removing the lithium battery. So, the solution is
to force-feed a datalock code of 12345 to the panel, only that's beyond my
abilities.

The datalock code is the only lock code that is checked when the 5200
programmer is used. However, when the remote programming software (called
RPS or RAM) is used, the panel also requires a "RAM Passcode." This
consists of six hex digits. Typically, it is different for each panel.
It's fully programmable by the dealer. Its purpose is hacker prevention,
rather than dealer lockout.

If you do decide to go shopping for a 5200 programmer, you should expect it
to be secured by a password. I'm sure that won't pose much of a problem
for someone with your abilities, though. The password is set by the user,
and is only contained in the programmer, not the panel.

Good luck with your project. I hope you'll feel like sharing the results
of your research with the rest of us.

- badenov

WYSIWYG · Oct 24, 2005

Badenov,

Thanks for the detailed information on the Datalock code. It will be useful
as I investigate the panel. I like these puzzels and I might end up with a
good alarm system when I'm finish, all the better.

If I come to some useful results I'll surely inform you.

Bob

Mark Leuck · Oct 25, 2005

WYSIWYG said:
Badenov,

Thanks for the detailed information on the Datalock code. It will be useful
as I investigate the panel. I like these puzzels and I might end up with a
good alarm system when I'm finish, all the better.

If I come to some useful results I'll surely inform you.

Bob

Even if you get it to work it will never be a good alarm system

Crash Gordon · Oct 25, 2005

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