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Question about DC and Coils and LED.

revv

Jun 16, 2012
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Okay so I tried to power an LED with a battery and coil I just took a wire and coiled it around a nail and pluged it in my 9volt dc battery but I don't understand why the led isn't lightning up... is it because the electromagnetic field is too weak?

I tried to measure the voltage that goes through the wire and there doesn't seem to be any going through... am I doing something wrong?

I also made a painting of what I did I hope you can understand...

Thank you for taking the time to read my thread.

e90TzGX.png
 

dorke

Jun 20, 2015
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"am I doing something wrong?"
Yes you are,you have just destroyed your Led!:eek:

Leds are "lit" by current flowing through them.
This current should be limited below the maximum the LED can withstand.
The voltage on the LED shouldn't be above the maximum it can
withstand.

What you did is force 9V voltage on the LED without any limit on the current(the wire resistance is zero ohm)
the result is a burnt LED.:(

You should use a series resistor
(for low current LEDs the value can be about 330ohm to 3300ohm,depending on the LED type).
Note that the LED has polarity like the battery!

like this:untitled.JPG
 

Colin Mitchell

Aug 31, 2014
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"Yes you are,you have just destroyed your Led!"

How did you work that out ?????????
 

Colin Mitchell

Aug 31, 2014
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"Connecting the led through a wire to a 9V Battery guarantees the LED is a goner..."

Who said he did that ????
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
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my feeling is that he may have simply shorted out the battery with the "coil".

I see no indication that the LED was in series.

At the very least, I'm sure he would have reported the LED being very bright at some stage of it was connected to the battery (although he could have connected it backwards).

the advice to use a resistor is good, but id also recommend using a 4.5V supply (3 x 1.5V batteries) as this will almost eliminate the risk of damage if the led is connects backwards.

I would also recommend the resource on LEDs, but it may be too advanced at this stage.
 

BobK

Jan 5, 2010
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Agree with Steve. I believe the OP had the (wrong) idea that putting an LED near a magnetic field will cause it to light up. Depending on the diameter and length of the wire, I am surprised that he did not see heating of the coil or the battery.

Bob
 

revv

Jun 16, 2012
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"Connecting the led through a wire to a 9V Battery guarantees the LED is a goner..."

Who said he did that ????

Your right Colin I didn't connect the Led to a 9V Battery.

Agree with Steve. I believe the OP had the (wrong) idea that putting an LED near a magnetic field will cause it to light up. Depending on the diameter and length of the wire, I am surprised that he did not see heating of the coil or the battery.

Bob

Can you create an electromagnetic field by connecting a small coil to a battery? What did I do wrong?

Thank you all for replying to my thread again I really appreciate it.
 

dorke

Jun 20, 2015
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Well,
I misunderstood the way you connected your "circuit".

The way you did it ,the Direct Current is creating a magnetic field.
You can "Harvest" some voltage out of that magnetic field.
This voltage is known as VH (that of the Hall effect).
It is far too small for the purpose of lighting up a LED.
 

Arouse1973

Adam
Dec 18, 2013
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Where you hoping to induce a current in the LED from a battery and coil?
Adam
 

Arouse1973

Adam
Dec 18, 2013
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No you need to produce a changing magnetic flux for this to happen.
Adam
 

BobK

Jan 5, 2010
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Your right Colin I didn't connect the Led to a 9V Battery.



Can you create an electromagnetic field by connecting a small coil to a battery? What did I do wrong?

Thank you all for replying to my thread again I really appreciate it.
If a static magnetic field would light up an LED, you could just put a permanent magnet next to it and free light forever.

Bob
 

revv

Jun 16, 2012
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If a static magnetic field would light up an LED, you could just put a permanent magnet next to it and free light forever.

Bob

I see, this is what I just tried doing right now and I couldn't get the led to light up... so im guessing im doing something wrong again... I made another painting of what I tried doing.

z2cHMEJ.png


The green thing is the LED and the red is the coiled up wire.
 

revv

Jun 16, 2012
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Where you hoping to induce a current in the LED from a battery and coil?
Adam

I tried to search on google for magnetic flux but I cant wrap my head around it, I don't really understand :[

I think I might have an idea of what it means but im not 100% sure
 

BobK

Jan 5, 2010
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Well, you are learning something :)

Look up transformer. Hint, they do not work on DC, which is what you are trying to do.

Bob
 

hevans1944

Hop - AC8NS
Jun 21, 2012
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@revv You are on the right track theory-wise with the battery, two coils, and an LED. Unfortunately, from a practical point of view, the coil connected to the battery will look like a dead-short and will quickly drain the battery. Your two coils are probably not tightly coupled together, magnetically, so not much energy can be exchanged, even in the best of circumstances. Not enough voltage or current will appear in the coil with the LED attached to it. Finally, an LED is not a very sensitive indicator devices. It requires "considerable" current... a few milliamperes... and significant voltage... a volt or two before it "lights up". You need an analog device called a galvanometer. Not to worry, you can make a serviceable one quite inexpensively. Read on.

What it appears you are doing is trying to demonstrate a practical example of Michael Faraday's experiment, where he discovered (almost by accident!) magnetic induction. Go to this Google results page and look at some of the pages linked there to get started learning about this fascinating aspect of electronics.

And while I am here, this reminds me of an incident that occurred while I was in in grade school. The teacher was doing science one day, and we were supposed to be learning about electromagnets. For homework, she told us to go home and find some copper wire, a large nail, and a dry-cell battery and wind our very own electromagnet. In those days, a dry-cell "battery" would typically be a 1.5 V cell with thumb-screw terminals on one end. These were often called "A" batteries when several were connected in series to light the filaments of battery-operated tube-type radios. Anyway, they were still fairly common, although expensive, in the 1950s when this story takes place.

So the next day we all show off our "electromagnets" in class. I think we shared the batteries because some students in my class could not afford to purchase a battery... not even a "D"-sized flashlight cell. One such unfortunate couldn't afford to purchase insulated copper wire either, but he was resourceful enough to find some bare copper wire on the farm where he lived. I have no idea what bare copper wire is used for on a farm... electric fence maybe? So he also finds this humongous nail in the barn and proceeds to wrap it with the copper wire he found. It was quite an impressive hunk of metal when he finished and showed it to us in class. So we loaned him a battery to try it out. Alas! The hunk of bare copper wire got warm, the connecting wires to the battery got warm, and the battery itself got warm when it was all connected up in a circuit, but there was no magnetic field produced in the nail! What a disappointment this was to the young boy. He thought he had done everything right, but somehow the idea that insulation on the copper wire was important flew right over his head.

So, @revv I hope when you wrapped your wire around the nail you remembered to use insulated wire. There are lots of other things that can cause an experiment to fail, but using bare copper wire to construct magnetic coils only works if the turns of wire don't touch either each other or touch a conductive form (like a nail) on which they are wound.

In my youth I found that it was a lot of fun to try to reproduce the experiments conducted by the 19th Century pioneers in electricity and electronics. I was without equipment, but a simple galvanometer can be made with a pocket compass (the kind that has a needle that sorta points toward north) and a few hundred feet of insulated fine wire. Or, even easier, if you can find a largeish loudspeaker the so-called voice coil can be removed. You just place the compass on a level surface, place the compass inside a coil so the turns of coil wires are crossing over and under the compass (not around the needle axis!), and then orient the compass so the needle points perpendicular to either open end of the coil.

Now, if a small current flows in the coil, it will produce a small magnetic field that will deflect the magnetized compass needle from its preferred north-south orientation. If enough current flows, the needle will deflect ninety degrees away from its preferred north-south orientation. So build this, lock it down to the table so it won't get disturbed after you get the compass oriented properly, connect with some flexible wire the coil that had the LED attached to it, and go explore the magnetic field created in the first coil you connected to the 9 V battery. Hint: it helps to wind a lot of turns of wire on the coil you connect to the 9 V battery. Even so, that battery is going to die pretty quickly. Best to find and use a current-limited DC wall-wart to play with instead of a battery.

Hop
 

Colin Mitchell

Aug 31, 2014
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You all missed the point and did not provide a solution.
If you place the two coils very close together and tap the end of one coil on the battery very quickly, the LED will illuminate a small amount. This is due to two things.
Firstly, the transfer of energy from one coil to other only takes place when the magnetic field is expanding or collapsing.
Thus it only transfer during the instant when the wire touches the battery and when it is removed.
Now secondly, when the wire is removed, the magnetic field will collapse and produce a very high voltage in the coil connected to the LED. This voltage will be enough to overcome the characteristic voltage of the crystal inside the LED and allow it to illuminate.
 

hevans1944

Hop - AC8NS
Jun 21, 2012
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You all missed the point and did not provide a solution.
If you place the two coils very close together and tap the end of one coil on the battery very quickly, the LED will illuminate a small amount. This is due to two things.
Firstly, the transfer of energy from one coil to other only takes place when the magnetic field is expanding or collapsing.
Thus it only transfer during the instant when the wire touches the battery and when it is removed.
Now secondly, when the wire is removed, the magnetic field will collapse and produce a very high voltage in the coil connected to the LED. This voltage will be enough to overcome the characteristic voltage of the crystal inside the LED and allow it to illuminate.
Gee, Colin, I haven't tried that yet. How many turns of what size wire on what diameter would you recommend for the coil attached to the battery and the coil attached to the LED? Bifilar wound or two coils some distance apart? Should the OP use a ferromagnetic core to get better coupling? Toroid perhaps? Why not just sic a joule thief circuit into the mix? If the "painting" is close to scale, using the 9V transistor radio battery to estimate size, then we are looking at four, maybe five, turns of wire wrapped around two fingers as a coil construction procedure. Is that what you had in mind? I'll see if I can dig out a 9 V battery and some hook-up wire to see if your procedure will work. It probably will, but I think the OP would learn more following the instructions I gave.

While we're at it, lets dig up a one henry choke, an NE-2 neon lamp, a 1.5 volt dry-cell, and a SPST normally-open push-button switch to make a flashing neon lamp circuit. Just wire switch, choke, and dry-cell in series. Connect lamp across the switch. Explain why lamp flashes when switch is pressed and then released. Can't find a one henry choke? Use the primary of just about any transformer that is made to connect the primary to line power. Do not connect the secondary windings to anything.
 
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