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Products with solar cells

J

James

Jan 1, 1970
0
Can anyone comment on why we do not see more portable products with
solar cells? I have not seen an mp3 player with a solar cell. Are the
solar cells not cost effective for mass production designs? Do they
have any Rohs issues? The only place that I have noticed them is in
calculators. I would imagine many mp3 players could run on 1mA. would
you need to large of a solar cell to keep a battery charged for a
device that used 8mAH per day?

Thanks,
James
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
James said:
Can anyone comment on why we do not see more portable products with
solar cells?

They don't produce very much electricity is why. Especially not indoors.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
James said:
I would imagine many mp3 players could run on 1mA.

How long does a battery last ? You can work it out from that.

Graham
 
James said:
Can anyone comment on why we do not see more portable products with
solar cells? I have not seen an mp3 player with a solar cell. Are the
solar cells not cost effective for mass production designs? Do they
have any Rohs issues? The only place that I have noticed them is in
calculators. I would imagine many mp3 players could run on 1mA. would
you need to large of a solar cell to keep a battery charged for a
device that used 8mAH per day?

Thanks,
James

james merry Christmas & happy new year

ur idea is great, it can be used for any MP3 player, first of all you
have keep in mind is all components use in compact MP3 player will
working only at a certain temp if excess of heat is produce it may
damage ur MP3 player, as well as your solar cell (short circuit) this
why people don't use solar cell for audio player,

Try this

use ur solar cell to charge portables rechargeable batteries after the
battery is fully charged use it in use MP3 player u will save
electricity bill
 
T

Tim Shoppa

Jan 1, 1970
0
James said:
Can anyone comment on why we do not see more portable products with
solar cells? I have not seen an mp3 player with a solar cell. Are the
solar cells not cost effective for mass production designs? Do they
have any Rohs issues? The only place that I have noticed them is in
calculators. I would imagine many mp3 players could run on 1mA. would
you need to large of a solar cell to keep a battery charged for a
device that used 8mAH per day?

At one point (probably 30 years ago) I convinced myself that all
products would eventually use less energy/power, becomre more and more
efficient, and solar cells would become more and more practicable.

But technology in the past few decades has completely bucked my
predictions. Our computers use so much power and do so so wastefully
that fans are needed for cooling, massive heatsinks on the processors,
and we still don't do anything more useful with them than we did when
they sucked less electricity.

OTOH battery technology has made advances and everything has some very
dense power cell in it today, that has to be plugged into a recharger
that draws several watts even when no power is needed at all!

The calculator hit the sweet spot - it's rare for folks to use LCD
calculators in the dark, and the power required is pretty miniscule -
and little else has.

All the personal portable devices of the past few years have a
considerable peak power drain (requiring some sort of battery-type
device) and might not ever see much sunlight.

So my prediction for the next 20 years is to assume lots and lots of
tiny little devices that all suck lots of power. And I'm sure to be
proven wrong again!

Tim.
 
M

mpm

Jan 1, 1970
0
James wrote:
I would imagine many mp3 players could run on 1mA. ....>

Unlikely! The audio amp alone would consume many times that, even for
a headphone amp.
Forestking wrote:
use ur solar cell to charge portables rechargeable batteries after the
battery is fully charged use it in use MP3 player u will save
electricity bill

I'm not so sure on balance this is technically "correct".
My experience with recharagable batteries is that you typically get no
more than a couple hundred, to perhaps a few hundred honest re-charge
cycles. And even then, many re-chargeable technologies DO NOT store
the same number of milliamp-hours as the typical primary alkyline cell
(which means you have to charge them more often.). Also, the chargers
are not 100% efficient.

Plus, you have to expend energy just building the batteries (toxic
stuff), which will on some level require environmental remediation
(more costs...); they also charge and re-charge with fairly low
efficiency, again requiring more cycles to obtain the equivalent mAh
capacities over time (averaging here). And, you still have to replace
the rechargeable batteries every so often (especially if they are
abused, overcharged, etc..) They are also much more expensive
initially, compared to a regular battery.

So while you may save a few pennies on the electric bill each month (if
that?), those savings will be completely swamped by the cost of the
rechargable batteries themselves, and probably by the utility bill
though I did not calculate that.

I suspect solar powered MP3 players don't exist because consumers don't
want them, the technology would be too bulky and cost effective to
implement, and frankly, "economics". There are much better
applications for solar power, and this is where you will find the
investment dollars driving solar technology development. Not in MP3
players.
 
D

Don Lancaster

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim said:
At one point (probably 30 years ago) I convinced myself that all
products would eventually use less energy/power, becomre more and more
efficient, and solar cells would become more and more practicable.

But technology in the past few decades has completely bucked my
predictions. Our computers use so much power and do so so wastefully
that fans are needed for cooling, massive heatsinks on the processors,
and we still don't do anything more useful with them than we did when
they sucked less electricity.

OTOH battery technology has made advances and everything has some very
dense power cell in it today, that has to be plugged into a recharger
that draws several watts even when no power is needed at all!

The calculator hit the sweet spot - it's rare for folks to use LCD
calculators in the dark, and the power required is pretty miniscule -
and little else has.

All the personal portable devices of the past few years have a
considerable peak power drain (requiring some sort of battery-type
device) and might not ever see much sunlight.

So my prediction for the next 20 years is to assume lots and lots of
tiny little devices that all suck lots of power. And I'm sure to be
proven wrong again!

Tim.

If you take one watthour as the lifetime actual use consumption of a
typical calculator, your solar power source costs you around FIVE
HUNDRED DOLLARS PER KILOWATT HOUR.

Few other apps have individuals overjoyed at paying these utility rates.

More at http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf


--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
 
B

Brendan Gillatt

Jan 1, 1970
0
Can anyone comment on why we do not see more portable products with
solar cells?

I would guess that 98% of the time your walkman or phone is stuck in
your pocket - unfortunatly I don't wear clingfilm all day and so my
pockets are vastly in-effeciant at letting through light ;)

It's good idea though on paper - just not very practical.

One thing that could be useful would be something that charges the
battery from movement - a bit like self-winding watches. Unfortunatly
machanical parts like this are prone to break down in consumer goods
and are also quite bulky :(


Brendan
 
R

Robert Scott

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you take one watthour as the lifetime actual use consumption of a
typical calculator, your solar power source costs you around FIVE
HUNDRED DOLLARS PER KILOWATT HOUR.

On the other hand, if your calculator is powered by a 3-volt CR2032 coin cell
battery with a capacity of 210 mAH, and a cost of about $3, that comes to a
power rate of $4762 per KWHour. I would say that solar wins over batteries in
that comparison.


Robert Scott
Ypsilanti, Michigan
 
I

Ian Stirling

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim Shoppa said:
At one point (probably 30 years ago) I convinced myself that all
products would eventually use less energy/power, becomre more and more
efficient, and solar cells would become more and more practicable.
All the personal portable devices of the past few years have a
considerable peak power drain (requiring some sort of battery-type
device) and might not ever see much sunlight.

Not all - MP3 players are getting better - at the low end, 'only' using
some 10-20mA off a 1.5V battery.

Assuming 1% conversion - dim light, and solar cell inefficiency, you
need a solar cell 10cm or so in diameter.
However, they've also gotten smaller.
 
I

Ian Stirling

Jan 1, 1970
0
mpm said:
I would imagine many mp3 players could run on 1mA. ....>

Unlikely! The audio amp alone would consume many times that, even for
a headphone amp.


I'm not so sure on balance this is technically "correct".
My experience with recharagable batteries is that you typically get no
more than a couple hundred, to perhaps a few hundred honest re-charge
cycles. And even then, many re-chargeable technologies DO NOT store
the same number of milliamp-hours as the typical primary alkyline cell
(which means you have to charge them more often.). Also, the chargers
are not 100% efficient.

Alkaline batteries (duracell) are only 2.8Ah or so.
NiMH cells with a shelf life of 12 months, and a capacity of 2Ah are
readily available now.
 
T

Tim Shoppa

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert said:
On the other hand, if your calculator is powered by a 3-volt CR2032 coin cell
battery with a capacity of 210 mAH, and a cost of about $3, that comes to a
power rate of $4762 per KWHour. I would say that solar wins over batteries in
that comparison.

For full irony factor, the "solar calculators" at the dollar store have
a completely non-functional solar cell on them. There's a small coin
cell hidden behind the black plastic panel.

Tim.
 
J

Joel Kolstad

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim Shoppa said:
For full irony factor, the "solar calculators" at the dollar store have
a completely non-functional solar cell on them. There's a small coin
cell hidden behind the black plastic panel.

Most calculators like that use the battery as a backup when there isn't enough
light around... primarily because, yes, the solar cell is dirt cheap and thus
kinda poor. But completely non-functional? That seems unlikely.

I remember the brief period in the '80s where the various name brands (Sharp,
Casio, TI, etc.) really did compete on having good quality solar cells,
telling you how their calculators only required a single candle's worth of
light, etc. I would imagine these days all the quality brands do work fine in
any light that most people would be comfortable in.
 
T

Tim Shoppa

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joel said:
Most calculators like that use the battery as a backup when there isn't enough
light around... primarily because, yes, the solar cell is dirt cheap and thus
kinda poor. But completely non-functional? That seems unlikely.

Well, they must use the vulcan mind-meld to transfer power out of that
piece of black plastic, 'cause there ain't no wires!

I just googled "fake solar cell" and was met with numerous pages on the
subject! Must be churning them out by the bazillions :).

I've done some contracting for several companies that made solar cells
over the past few decades. Economically a vary marginal industry was my
conclusion. All the black aluminum dust everywhere inside the plant may
have clouded my judgement! But certainly, making fake solar cells must
be more economically viable than making working ones!

Tim.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joel said:
Most calculators like that use the battery as a backup when there isn't enough
light around... primarily because, yes, the solar cell is dirt cheap and thus
kinda poor. But completely non-functional? That seems unlikely.

I remember the brief period in the '80s where the various name brands (Sharp,
Casio, TI, etc.) really did compete on having good quality solar cells,
telling you how their calculators only required a single candle's worth of
light, etc. I would imagine these days all the quality brands do work fine in
any light that most people would be comfortable in.

While at a shop in Germany for a sandwich in the late 80's I saw a tray
full of solar calculators next to the cash register. About $0.40 at that
time and I couldn't resist because it had the size of a credit card, it
fit right into my daytimer. Guess what, it's still in there and still
works after 20 years so I guess there can't be a battery in it. A small
task light is all it takes to make it work. However, I never figured out
why it has an on/off button.
 
D

Don Lancaster

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert said:
On the other hand, if your calculator is powered by a 3-volt CR2032 coin cell
battery with a capacity of 210 mAH, and a cost of about $3, that comes to a
power rate of $4762 per KWHour. I would say that solar wins over batteries in
that comparison.


Robert Scott
Ypsilanti, Michigan

Yes, but the fact remains that the OVERWHEMING MAJORITY of solar panel
users are paying something like $500 per kilowatt hour for the privelege.

More at http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf



--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
 
S

SioL

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ian Stirling said:
Alkaline batteries (duracell) are only 2.8Ah or so.
NiMH cells with a shelf life of 12 months, and a capacity of 2Ah are
readily available now.

I always wondered why there isn't any capacity rating on plain
alkaline batteries. They must be closely matched.

SioL
 
J

Joel Kolstad

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
However, I never figured out why it has an on/off button.

My guess was always that it served as "reset" -- I've seen solar calculators
"lock up" with bizarre displays due to being left in, e.g., very dim light and
then taken to a bright room.
 
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