N.I.D. Location (Bell Canada cannot find it)

[VXtanyaXV]

Hi,
I hope this is the correct forum.
Bell Canada has spent over 1 month (actually I have) NOT being able to find the Network Interface Device (NID) in my house (which they installed ~ possibly 40 years ago).

They finally allowed the buried wire service to locate the area of entry into the house but cannot (or will not) trace it further
There has been no renovation but Bell says I have to have the walls torn apart...

Is there anything UNIQUE about telephone wire (cable) that can be picked up on some sort of instrument so they can trace the wire / cable inside the house? (from where it enters the house?)

(The box is inside)

There is a largish gray box (near the location of the cable / wire outside) that looks like this:
"Network interface device - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_interface_device
Top right: (lower box) but the tech would not open it b/c he said it is too big and that the 2 cables are not phone related.
The word “INTERMATIC” is written on it
Could this be what was used 40 years ago?

PLEASE ADVISE!
Thank you!

 

[JimW]

I'm from the US so take this at face value. The NID in Canada is the same as demarcation point in the US phone jargon. If your phone lines were installed properly, and 40 years ago is still considered modern times, there should be an all-weather box external to the house for the NID. Could be in a basement I suppose, but it should be easily accessible.

Intermatic makes telephone NID's. They also make whole house surge suppressors. I assume a phone teck would recognize a NID, so I would guess that it is something other than that.

Tracking it down? Pretty easy I would think. You want a cable tracker that works through walls. You put a RF signal on the phone wires and use a radio receiver to scan the walls and follow the wiring. Something like this:
http://www.testequipmentandmore.com/BK_Precision_262.html

Google is your friend. "Cable tracker" and "in wall" will lead you to other options.

-Jim

 

[CocaCola]

As Jim said you want a cable tracker, and may I suggest you hire a competent person that already owns one... They will have the experience to make it pain free...

On a side note this might need to be coordinated with the Telco because without access to that box you are still connected to the Telco and thus all sorts of things could go wrong... You will likely have to get the Telco to disconnect at the local neighborhood gang box while you locate lines...

Chances are REAL good it's located right inside the house where the burial cable enters. if it's not externally mounted like it should be...

That grey box you linked is standard fanfare in the US, but they are also used by cable companies, you need to crack it open and see what the wiring is inside... Phone ones will have a traditional modular jack, cable ones will have coaxial connectors and possibly notch filters, they are can like things the wires plug into...

 

[VXtanyaXV]

Thank you so much JimW

 

[VXtanyaXV]

Hi and Thanks

As Jim said you want a cable tracker, and may I suggest you hire a competent person that already owns one... They will have the experience to make it pain free...

Bell Canada was supposed to be looking for it but nobody at BELL seems to know anything about this.

I want to find the NID for several reasons and BELL's next step for me to have the house walls torn apart...
So I want to find a less drastic way to look for it.

Chances are REAL good it's located right inside the house where the burial cable enters. if it's not externally mounted like it should be...

That grey box you linked is standard fanfare in the US, but they are also used by cable companies, you need to crack it open and see what the wiring is inside... Phone ones will have a traditional modular jack, cable ones will have coaxial connectors and possibly notch filters, they are can like things the wires plug into...

The technician would not even open it.
Assuming it is straightforward I guess I could open it...

Thanks

 

[CocaCola]

It's straight forward to open them, there is generally just a screw holding them closed... There 'might' be a little wire tag attached by whatever company but a quick snip with some wire cutters will remove that... BTW at least in the US those tags although 'official' looking are not something that is going to get you 'busted' if you remove them for legit service reasons... If you reconnect your 'unplugged' service that is another story, it used to be the joke back in the analog cable days in my area, the techs were too lazy to climb the pole and would just disconnect at the box and apply a 'terminator' to the coax that was supposed to prevent you from hooking it back up... Well a pair of pliers and you could crush the terminator and remove it with ease and just screw the coax connector back together and get free cable until they audited your house, audits were rare so you could get years worth of free service...

 

[VXtanyaXV]

Thanks,
I haven't opened it yet but there's another similar box outside.

That grey box you linked is standard fanfare in the US, but they are also used by cable companies.

The cable has an identified box.
There is natural gas, water, hydro meter, electricity.... not sure if these could use the grey box

 

[CocaCola]

Only Cable and Telco (maybe alarm companies or something like that) will use the ones you linked... All the other meters don't use that type of junction box...

Crack it open newer ones will have a small short 4" long phone wire on the bottom plugged in with a normal modular jack that is the phone one... There should also be a little cover inside you can remove and see the individual service wires but that isn't necessary unless you are doing a hookup... You can test it by unplugging the short wire (this disconnects the house) and plugging in a phone into that jack outside and see if it works...

If it's an older one it will just have a terminal block with the 4 or 6 small colored wires... Normally black, red, green, yellow for the first two phone lines that is a default install...

 

[VXtanyaXV]

Only Cable and Telco (maybe alarm companies or something like that) will use the ones you linked... All the other meters don't use that type of junction box...

Thank you.
I cannot reach it.
I took photos:

Crack it open newer ones will have a small short 4" long phone wire on the bottom plugged in with a normal modular jack that is the phone one... There should also be a little cover inside you can remove and see the individual service wires but that isn't necessary unless you are doing a hookup... You can test it by unplugging the short wire (this disconnects the house) and plugging in a phone into that jack outside and see if it works...

If it's an older one it will just have a terminal block with the 4 or 6 small colored wires... Normally black, red, green, yellow for the first two phone lines that is a default install...

Here are the photos,
BTW I don't know the color size shape of the phone (neither do the Bell technicians)

 

[CocaCola]

The first two photo appear to be a power junction, pull or even a sub fuse/circuit box... This is mains electricity, not phone... It might very well be a timer box, possibly for a sprinkler system?

Third photo just appears to be bunch of misc wires, mains power, TV and possibly phone wire or two, basically just a mess...

Forth photo looks to be the top of a main electricity fuse or circuit box with some TV wires dangling around it...

 

[VXtanyaXV]

Thank you again

The first two photo appear to be a power junction, pull or even a sub fuse/circuit box... This is mains electricity, not phone... It might very well be a timer box, possibly for a sprinkler system?

That is the grey box I thought might be the NID

Third photo just appears to be bunch of misc wires, mains power, TV and possibly phone wire or two, basically just a mess...

That is where the wires / cables enter the house.
I will try to take a clearer photo - because I do not know which ones are possible phone wires.

Forth photo looks to be the top of a main electricity fuse or circuit box with some TV wires dangling around it...

That was to show the white cable crossing a box and entering (from below) what I had thought was a NID but what you say is electrical and not phone...

I could trace the phone wires - but I do not know what they look like (Nor does BELL)

Thanks

[UPDATE]
I just talked to bell: They said the device:
"BK Precision 262 - Tone Generator & Cable Tracer Kit"
http://www.testequipmentandmore.com/BK_Precision_262.html
Would not work: That the N.I.D. is "hidden" in the ceiling (something they had NEVER told me) And that I have to hire someone to rip out the drywall of each room in the basement floor. (5 rooms)

I am not sure why the "BK Precision 262 - Tone Generator & Cable Tracer Kit" would not work to at least to narrow down the room?