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"manual closed loop control" is there such a thing?

Discussion in 'Electronic Basics' started by misterroy, Jan 18, 2006.

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  1. misterroy

    misterroy Guest

    Hi, I teach Technology in Scotland. In our arrangements documents
    mention is made of "manual closed loop control" It seems to mean for
    example, that whilst you are driving your car you become part of the
    system and provide the feedback, hence "manual closed loop control".
    To me thats plain old manual control. Google seems to back me up, only
    28 hits for "manual closed loop control"
    Any thoughts?



    Roy
     
  2. I agree that they are probably using manual closed loop control to
    mean manual control while you observe some feedback variable or
    variables The control algorithm you use to make your control
    decisions may be conscious (and either logical or illogical) or
    unconscious.

    Some people apply manual closed loop control, fail miserably, and
    never realize that either the variables they observe are not connected
    to what they are controlling the way they think they are, or their
    control algorithm is completely wrong. This is especially true in
    personal interaction loops and all superstition.
     
  3. Semantics. I taught an EET course in servos and noted that some textbook
    authors used that as an example. You know, cruise control closes the loop
    with a circuit or a human closes the loop with her eyes, brain and foot on
    the gas pedal. Within this paradigm, open loop means no control whatsoever
    (I suppose ... again, all semantics).
     
  4. Pooh Bear

    Pooh Bear Guest

    Manual closed loop control might mean keeping the car on the road though !

    Graham
     
  5. Possibly just refers to a closed loop control system with a human in
    the control loop, something like trying to hold the position of a
    meter, reading some process value, with a control valve. Very
    unreliable component to have in any control loop ..... would recomend
    getting rid of the human element where ever possible !!
     
  6. Fred Bartoli

    Fred Bartoli Guest

    Ever tried to drive with closed eyes?

    That's still manual but open loop... not for long.
     
  7. John  Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    A long time ago, I worked for an outfit that had no controls
    experience but proposed to design and build a control console for a
    steamship. I worked up a control algorithm for the main drive engine,
    a steam turbine with an electro-hydraulic main steam valve. I
    simulated the transient response, in terms of valve position, steam
    flow, and RPMs vs time (on an HP9100 calculator) and plotted it in
    nice colors; the dynamics were interesting, given the various
    constraints on valve operation and boiler loading. We took it to a
    meeting and made a presentation. An old crusty steamship engineer
    looked at the curves and said "that's exactly the response you'd see
    if an experienced operator worked the valve by hand" so we got the
    job. This was for the LASH ships, built at Avondale. The company,
    TANO, is still in the marine automation business.

    The Wright brothers airplane was dynamically unstable, as are some
    modern fighter planes. They used experience, we use computers.

    John
     
  8. John Larkin wrote:
    (snip)
    It must have been quite a thrill building that experience a few feet
    above the sand.
     
  9. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    They started with gliders, tethered in the wind at Kitty Hawk. I bet
    they crashed a lot.

    There was a TV show on a while back. Some people built a Wright
    replica and learned to fly it. It didn't look easy.

    John
     
  10. The flyer was the first heavier-than-air to kill anyone IIRC.
     
  11. You could play the relevant sections from "Metropolis" - or Madonna's rip
    off of it!
     
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