GE GSD2800 Dishwasher Leaking

[Sam Goldwasser]

OK, it's microcomputer controlled, so does that qualify as electronics
repair even if the micro isn't the problem?

This unit is about 19 years old and now has started leaking mostly
or totally when it's draining. The drain hose is in good condition
and is not obstructed. The water appears to be coming from the area
near the back of the horizontally mounted motor/pump assembly.
It's less than a cup of water for the entire wash cycle,
which a pan can easily catch, but of course these things will get worse.
I don't believe it's a hose or connection problem but can't rule that out.

Any info appreciated.

Thanks.

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[N Cook]

OK, it's microcomputer controlled, so does that qualify as electronics
repair even if the micro isn't the problem?

This unit is about 19 years old and now has started leaking mostly
or totally when it's draining. The drain hose is in good condition
and is not obstructed. The water appears to be coming from the area
near the back of the horizontally mounted motor/pump assembly.
It's less than a cup of water for the entire wash cycle,
which a pan can easily catch, but of course these things will get worse.
I don't believe it's a hose or connection problem but can't rule that out.

Any info appreciated.

Thanks.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
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Beware of leaking electricity.
I'm assuming you don't have access to the problem area. Dependent on how
close it is to a disposal job, I would cut an access hole in the adjascent
outer steel panelling and blank off with something aesthetic afterwards.
Put some of that U cross-section plastic "Flexiform" grommet strip around
the cut edge while playing around inside. I've done that with a washing
machine problem like this in an area behind large lumps of concrete that as
far as I could see were not removable.

Perhaps try query in uk.d-i-y, they like that sort of thing, and UK is no
more USA than water leaks are electronic ;-)

 

[hr(bob) [email protected]]

Beware of leaking electricity.
I'm assuming you don't have access to the problem area. Dependent on how
close it is to a disposal job, I would cut an access hole in the adjascent
outer steel panelling and blank off with something aesthetic afterwards.
Put some of that U cross-section plastic "Flexiform" grommet strip around
the cut edge while playing around inside. I've done that with a washing
machine problem like this in an area behind large lumps of concrete that as
far as I could see were not removable.

Perhaps try query in uk.d-i-y, they like that sort of thing, and UK is no
more USA than water leaks are electronic ;-)

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sam:

How about a bright light shining under the dishwasher while it is
running and a mirror on a stick and video camera if you can't stay
around long enough to observe.

At that age, if it is used frequently, it may be just plain worn out
around the punp bushings, and these things are not generally easily
repairable, in my experience. I hate to say replace, but that may be
you easiest (and maybe alnmost cheapest) option.

Bob Hofmann

 

[Homer J Simpson]

This unit is about 19 years old and now has started leaking mostly
or totally when it's draining. The drain hose is in good condition
and is not obstructed. The water appears to be coming from the area
near the back of the horizontally mounted motor/pump assembly.

Could it be from the hose to the sump? I repaired mine with a gasket of
double sided tape.

 

[nipperchipper]

there is a seal on the pump/motor shaft that disintegrates with time check
it

 

[Sam Goldwasser]

Sam:

How about a bright light shining under the dishwasher while it is
running and a mirror on a stick and video camera if you can't stay
around long enough to observe.

Actually, that's exactly what I plan to do. I have an "intra-oral"
video camera and LCD monitor. Not sure I'll do it first when it's
running, but will carefully inspect it for evidence of cracks, rust,
loose clamps (unlikely), etc.

At that age, if it is used frequently, it may be just plain worn out
around the punp bushings, and these things are not generally easily
repairable, in my experience. I hate to say replace, but that may be
you easiest (and maybe alnmost cheapest) option.

According to what I've read, the motor/pump thing is not serviceable
and the replacement is $100-150, although a rebuilt one might be
less. Not sure it's worth it for such an old machine. It has been
used regularly, though I wouldn't say it overstressed.

From what I can gather without actually seeing (so far) an exploded
diagram, this uses a horizontal motor driven pump (that I can see!)
which directs its output either to the rotating spray arm assembly,
or to the output hose, using a solenoid operated "butterfly" valve.
Since the leak is present only when the machine is draining, that
does narrow down the location considerably.

Or, since it sounds like the same motor/pump assembly has been used
on many GE/Hotpoint models, perhaps one from a junker could be found
if it isn't something that MacGuyver can repair.

If I can manage to remove the motor/pump assembly for careful inspection
without having to take the entire machine out (and disconnect plumbing)
that would be great. There aren't that many connections to it.

Thanks!

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[Sam Goldwasser]

Could it be from the hose to the sump? I repaired mine with a gasket of
double sided tape.

You mean to the drain? I will carefully check that. Hoses looked to be
in very good condition from initial inspection.

Thanks.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
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[Homer J Simpson]

You mean to the drain? I will carefully check that. Hoses looked to be
in very good condition from initial inspection.

Mine actually leaked from the fill hose connection but it could be the drain
in your case. Not so much the hose but the gasketing to the wash tank.

 

[Sam Goldwasser]

Mine actually leaked from the fill hose connection but it could be the drain
in your case. Not so much the hose but the gasketing to the wash tank.

But note that this is only leaking when it is pumping out. Thus all the
seals that need to be intact during fill, wash, and rinse, are not leaking.

Thanks.

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[R!]

OK, it's microcomputer controlled, so does that qualify as electronics
repair even if the micro isn't the problem?

This unit is about 19 years old and now has started leaking mostly
or totally when it's draining. The drain hose is in good condition
and is not obstructed. The water appears to be coming from the area
near the back of the horizontally mounted motor/pump assembly.
It's less than a cup of water for the entire wash cycle,
which a pan can easily catch, but of course these things will get
worse. I don't believe it's a hose or connection problem but can't
rule that out.

Any info appreciated.

Thanks.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header
above is ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics
is included in the subject line. Or, you can contact me via the
Feedback Form in the FAQs.

I used to repair appliances when those were new, There was a problem
with the bearing and seal on some of the wastegate valve shafts. It has
an electric coil that moves it during the drain cycle.

The wastegate valve is used to force the water down the drain, it only
has a high pressure on it during the drain cycle.

The seal is a very small teflon like washer on the inside, but what
usually hapened was the shaft developed a lot of "slop" (worn bearing)
in it's movement.

I think that was one of the early models with the "PermaTuf" tub, which
was all plastic. If so there should not be a rust problem.

The shaft on the motor would rust sometimes and damage the shaft seal,
this usually leaks between the black motor and the fiberglass pump
housing, this usually starts small and gets worse. The seal is not that
expensive but getting that fiberglass pump apart without breaking
something else is next to impossible. The complete assembly is not too
hard to change 2 Large hoses, 1 or 2 Small hoses , one screw whitch
holds the support hanger and 4 electrical wires, make sure to turn off
the electric service to the dishwasher before servicing since it should
be hard wired, does not have a power cord.

Check the drain hose and clamp since these were usually installed in the
field at the time of installation.

R!!

 

[Homer J Simpson]

But note that this is only leaking when it is pumping out. Thus all the
seals that need to be intact during fill, wash, and rinse, are not
leaking.

If that's for sure then yes, looks like a pump seal and it's on the outflow
side.

 

[Sam Goldwasser]

I used to repair appliances when those were new, There was a problem
with the bearing and seal on some of the wastegate valve shafts. It has
an electric coil that moves it during the drain cycle.

The wastegate valve is used to force the water down the drain, it only
has a high pressure on it during the drain cycle.

The seal is a very small teflon like washer on the inside, but what
usually hapened was the shaft developed a lot of "slop" (worn bearing)
in it's movement.

This sounds very much like what might be happening.

Do you think these parts are still available, or will the party line
be to "replace entire motor/pump assembly"?

Might a workaround be possible? Add a washer to reduce slop in the
bearing or something?

I think that was one of the early models with the "PermaTuf" tub, which
was all plastic. If so there should not be a rust problem.

The shaft on the motor would rust sometimes and damage the shaft seal,
this usually leaks between the black motor and the fiberglass pump
housing, this usually starts small and gets worse. The seal is not that

But this would ball the time while the motor/pump is running, right?

expensive but getting that fiberglass pump apart without breaking
something else is next to impossible. The complete assembly is not too
hard to change 2 Large hoses, 1 or 2 Small hoses , one screw whitch
holds the support hanger and 4 electrical wires, make sure to turn off
the electric service to the dishwasher before servicing since it should
be hard wired, does not have a power cord.

Right.

Would I be correct in expecting that I can remove the motor/pump with
the dishwasher in place? It sounds imple enough, just limited acess.

Check the drain hose and clamp since these were usually installed in the
field at the time of installation.

Right, by me 19 years ago. I do intend to check the simple things
first!

Thanks!

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
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| Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

 

[Sam Goldwasser]

If that's for sure then yes, looks like a pump seal and it's on the outflow
side.

The same pump is used for all functions. There was another reply that
seemed to make the most sense - a seal on the valve that switches between
wash and drain.

Thanks.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
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[R!]

This sounds very much like what might be happening.

Do you think these parts are still available, or will the party line
be to "replace entire motor/pump assembly"?

I dont know if parts are still available for the wastegate repair, but
the hole that the shaft goes through gets larger and the screws that
hold the plate of the valve to the shaft are peened to prevent them from
falling out, rather tedious job to remove them. There was a kit at one
time new shaft, screws , nut, plate and bearing seal and reamer and of
course instructions.

Might a workaround be possible? Add a washer to reduce slop in the
bearing or something?

See above, just getting the thing apart to try something is tough...

But this would ball the time while the motor/pump is running, right?

Yes!


Right.

Would I be correct in expecting that I can remove the motor/pump with
the dishwasher in place? It sounds imple enough, just limited acess.

Yes, kinda tight under there, they may also be a couple of ground wires
under screws that are quite clumsy to get at.

You will be greatly assisted with a small mirror.

 

[R!]

This sounds very much like what might be happening.

Do you think these parts are still available, or will the party line
be to "replace entire motor/pump assembly"?

Might a workaround be possible? Add a washer to reduce slop in the
bearing or something?


But this would ball the time while the motor/pump is running, right?


Right.

Would I be correct in expecting that I can remove the motor/pump with
the dishwasher in place? It sounds imple enough, just limited acess.


Right, by me 19 years ago. I do intend to check the simple things
first!

Thanks!

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page:
http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Site Info:
| http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Try this site...

http://www.myapstore.com/Omega/Dispatcher?
REQUEST=ACCESSORY&mainFrameUrl=POPUP&modelNumber=GSD2800&title=Repair%
20Parts

note line wrap...

http://genet.geappliances.com/IPCNet/Dispatcher?
REQUEST=IPCNETGETPDF&file=00000000/00003100/00003175.p03.pdf

Pdf of a sample model parts list...

http://www.myapstore.com/Omega/Dispatcher?REQUEST=HOMEPAGE

if all else fails...

R!!

 

[R!]

This sounds very much like what might be happening.

Do you think these parts are still available, or will the party line
be to "replace entire motor/pump assembly"?

Might a workaround be possible? Add a washer to reduce slop in the
bearing or something?


But this would ball the time while the motor/pump is running, right?


Right.

Would I be correct in expecting that I can remove the motor/pump with
the dishwasher in place? It sounds imple enough, just limited acess.


Right, by me 19 years ago. I do intend to check the simple things
first!

Thanks!

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page:
http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Site Info:
| http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Item 417 Shaft seal ...Wastegate

SEAL SHAFT 417 WD8X181 $12.75

Item 434 Motor Shaft seal...

SHAFT SEAL ASM 434 WD19X52 $43.25

Housing with valve is NLA

PUMP HOUSING ASM 311 WD19X42 $30.00

Complete Pump assembly...

MOTOR/PUMP ASM 310 WD26X10013 $150.50

Hope this is helpfull...

R!!

 

[Sam Goldwasser]

Item 417 Shaft seal ...Wastegate

SEAL SHAFT 417 WD8X181 $12.75

Item 434 Motor Shaft seal...

SHAFT SEAL ASM 434 WD19X52 $43.25

Housing with valve is NLA

PUMP HOUSING ASM 311 WD19X42 $30.00

Complete Pump assembly...

MOTOR/PUMP ASM 310 WD26X10013 $150.50

Hope this is helpfull...

Yes, thanks for all your posts.

I've seen some Web sites with the complete motor/pump assembly for about
$100. Would you not recommend them if I did have to replace the entire
thing (though I doubt those in charge of finances would go for it anyhow!).

I've also heard of rebuilt motor/pump assemblies, or is that what
this would be?

Or, I could just keep the pan underneath it the way it is now......

First step is to confirm where the leak is!

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
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| Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

 

[hr(bob) [email protected]]

Yes, thanks for all your posts.

I've seen some Web sites with the complete motor/pump assembly for about
$100. Would you not recommend them if I did have to replace the entire
thing (though I doubt those in charge of finances would go for it anyhow!).

I've also heard of rebuilt motor/pump assemblies, or is that what
this would be?

Or, I could just keep the pan underneath it the way it is now......

First step is to confirm where the leak is!

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page:http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents:http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ:http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Site Info:http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

it's a real pain to do anything unless you remove the dishwasher.
Once you do that, a totally new machine isn't that much more than the
entire pump replacement sots, and you get a new machine. I like to
repair stuff, but if this were mine, I probably would replace the
whole machine.

Bob Hofmann

 

[hr(bob) [email protected]]

Yes, thanks for all your posts.

I've seen some Web sites with the complete motor/pump assembly for about
$100. Would you not recommend them if I did have to replace the entire
thing (though I doubt those in charge of finances would go for it anyhow!).

I've also heard of rebuilt motor/pump assemblies, or is that what
this would be?

Or, I could just keep the pan underneath it the way it is now......

First step is to confirm where the leak is!

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page:http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents:http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ:http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Site Info:http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Please, keep us posted as to what you find and what you decide.

H. R.(Bob) Hofmann

 

[Sam Goldwasser]

Please, keep us posted as to what you find and what you decide.

H. R.(Bob) Hofmann

Absolutely! (Though I doubt it's going to end up being a Tom Clancy
trhiller!).

I still can't figure out exactly where the leak is. It does NOT appear to
be at the shaft of the butterfly valve, but closer to the back of the motor.
might the higher pressure in the pump chamber when draining due to the
much smaller diameter connector result in a leak through a marginal
motor/pump seal?

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
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| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
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