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First Post - Help with Identifying Circuit Components

Hobby Junkie

Mar 20, 2016
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in both directions ?



hmmmm ok

Dave, I measured it on both the CAP and OHM settings. And you were correct. On the CAP setting I get 4.58uF and 4.66uF when reversed (apparently verified by the previous post). On the OHM setting, I get 9 MEGA ohm increasing steadily and reversed I get 10 MEGA ohm increasing steadily. Apparently I did not have the leads correctly inserted when I measured last night. Brain must have been mush by that time.



The Alice is still on our to go list ... a couple of summers ago My wife and I went to Uluru ( Ayers Rock) ( pretty much the centre of the country a long way south of Alice Springs

Beautiful country in its own way. I really like it when I visited long ago and am looking forward to visiting again in the near future. I want to visit for about 90 days as I have learned that in my past travels, you do not really get to know the culture unless you stay for at least 90 days, and in some instances, longer.

I go to the USA periodically, mainly in the mid-west for storm chasing. Haven't been to Florida yet. Always wanted to go to the "Cape" to see a shuttle launch
but didn't happen before the program ended :(


Dave

Dave, I have lived in Florida since '85 with a three year break coming back in '94. Being on the other coast from the Cape (near the Tampa area) I was always amazed by the shuttle launches, especially the ones at night. Could not see the shuttle but the contrails it left were amazing. At night, it looked like a lighter flame going across the sky until the boosters separated then a triangle of start moving across the sky to sub orbital insertion. I also wanted to see a live launch but every time I attempted to get to the Cape for the launch, it was delayed, sometimes for 10 days or longer. In all my experiences, it is this one that I wish that I had made a better effort to see. Now it is gone forever.

I need to review the thread before further comment. Thanks.
 

Hobby Junkie

Mar 20, 2016
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73's de Edd

Here is a pic of the traces with the components removed.

Board_zpseqg5vj3x.jpg


Here is a pic of the 2 row X 3 pin switch.

Switch_zpsvf7jtcrw.jpg


The "sketch" of the area dotted in red line is correct as drawn (from what I can ascertain). There are only 6 pins on the switch, not eight. And if numbered from left to right, top then bottom as 1, 2, 3, / 4, 5, 6 positions 2 and 5 are center positions where there is no power or connections going anywhere except that pin 5 is always connected to the + side of the battery.. If the switch is thrown to the left, pin 2 makes contact with pin 1 and activated the + side. Pin 5 makes contact with pin 4 and goes nowhere as there is no trace from pin 4. If the switch is thrown to the right, pin 2 makes contact with pin 3 activating the + side and pin 5 makes contact with pin 6 thus bypassing the 33kohm resistor. Pins 1, 2, and 3 control the power (+ side) to activate the circuit. Pin 4 is null and 5 and 6 are used to bypass the 33kohm resistor and re only connected to the ground side by connection to the emitter pin of the BC807 PNP transistor.

Thank you. Till next reply....

I will look at your reply and try to answer your questions but I wanted to get this up so that the traces could be viewed without the components. I removed them this morning.

BTW, the switch is marked(Salecom Electronics Co., Ltd....Taipei City)

SH
ES-T
0.4 VA Max

The upper curve of the S reaches over the H
 
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davenn

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Sep 5, 2009
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Addenda:
I see that my assignment of the switch Alfa designations differ from yours, because I used up my AB on the battery lands, and thereby created the resultant error on the CDE and FGH designations.

yes, your switch and 1uF cap drawing / location is incorrect
the OP had it right in his drawings
Maybe you missed the comment in one of the earlier posts that the switch has a LOW, OFF, and HIGH
settings ;)

here it is altered back with the switch correctly connected and labelled

cct.jpg




Dave
 
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Hobby Junkie

Mar 20, 2016
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.


Sir Hobby Junkie . . . . . . .

Session Deux . . . . .


I was able to make out enough on the first viewing of your reverse engineered drawing and mark in changes and add some info right on your schematic sheet .

First of all . . .might this just be an internal dedicated ancillary circuit to one of those " wun hunnerts ninety nines dollahs " tactical flashlights, since its being built on a round PCB.
Usually all of this ciruitry is built on a mini sized monolithic chip as the Laser driver circuitry.

Definitely a laser driver circuit with two positions, High and Low controlled by the 33kohm and 13 kohm resistors.



.Questions that I need further info . . .I am going to Bullet . . . . to be easily seen.

I am "reading" the board and seeing the battery wiring coming in to A and B copper lands that have NOTHING else connected to them, except for the foil path from A over to E.
Then there is the additional foil path from B to F.
These are the central pins on the DPDT switch, with the left C and D lands being unused / vacant.
On power on the E to G connection is being apparent for the + power insertion.

I think I answered these with the posting of the trace PCB and the switch. If not, let me know and I will try to do better.

You can see I placed the 1 ufd over where it belongs.
As for the F to H connection that will require a bit of pulling the battery and ohmming out by you.

Not sure I understand what you mean. If I read this correctly and forgetting about Ben Franklin's mistake about current flow against electrons, I THINK the photo part of the diode provides a current feedback that goes both to the base and the emitter of the PNP transistor, to the emitter through the resistors. Whether 1 or both ar used, it would control the amount of current to the collector which then feeds the base of the NPN transistor. This is just a guess and I am still reading up on NPN and PNP along with FET interactions in circuit design.


Look at the PD photo diodes output coming down to this circuitry . . . I am wanting to be seeing those two resistors being used in a voltage divider function with the final
output ending up at the base of 5AW.

So are they used as a voltage divider (drops voltage IIRC but current remains stable) or as current limiters?

As it stands switch F-> H is merely doing an illogical switching of a short across the 33K resistor. . . . . .ha . . . ha . . . like it needs to be in circuit while the unit is OFF but
needs to be shorted out when the unit is turned ON.

Knowing that the bottom row of pins is only used as switching for the resistors, it does not affect the neg side of the power structure as I see it. But I am probably wrong on this.



What I am now seeing is enough to give you:

CONCEPT OF DESIGN :

Flip the power switch and + power is applied to the Laser diode and it is wanting to find a ground path to activate.
Simultaneously with that power on, a 1.2 K resistor is giving base drive to 6CW so that ground path is then found via Collector -Emitter conduction of 6CW.
That base drive supplied is a bit more than needed, as the detected Laser output level is being monitored by the
photocell PD and will be supplying power correction via a feed back loop.
Note that the base of the 6CW transistor takes a path to the left and initially encounters a RC time constant which will give in the order an
~ 80 MS "hang" time on corrections. That path ends at the collector of 5AW . . . . . as the output from the PD increases it progressively
shifts base drive of 5AW and causes it to conduct more heavily and that progressively pulls down the voltage on the initial base drive of 6CW
to a stable correcting value..

This is what I thought: Using the ABC and DEF pin on the switch, with pin B always being "hot +", as the switch is thrown to the left, B connects to A activating the circuit through the 1.2kohm circuit initializing the base of 6CW. The emitter of 6CW feeds the BE output to the collector which drives the laser diode (controlled by the loop feedback of 5AW). So with the laser diode output as visible light, the photocell diode initiates a small current (or is it voltage?) that feeds the base of the 5CW as well as the emitter of 5CW but controlled through the combination of the two resistors as pins D&E do nothing or go nowhere forcing the series of 46Kohm to the emitter of 5AW. This in turn feeds the collector of 5AW which feeds the base of 6CW thus controlling the laser output in the LOW position. Now if the switch is thrown to the right, pin B activates pin C to activate the circuit on the + side through the 1.2kohm resistor and everything else is the same EXCEPT that the 33kohm resistor is bypassed thus upping the feed to the 5AW emitter increasing the collector output driving 6CW to a higher output, thus the HIGH position of the laser. I am very unsure about this......it is my best guess at this time.

  • Pull the battery and ohm out and inspect to find out the real wiring path on the basic area within the RED dotted lines.
As seen in the picture of the PCB traces.


After that use a DVM in its diode test mode to ascertain and pass us back all of the Vf of all of the junctions of the two transistors, as well as the
slight possibility getting readings from of the Laser diode and PD.
The real work horses are being the 6CW and the Laser diode.

Can not do. The circuit burned before I stated this project. I think the 6CW was overpowered and fried thus frying the LD/PD so I can not test anything or the components. I will try to do the Vf readings on the old parts but I am not anywhere certain that these components are functioning. I did get that acrid silicon smell when the laser fried.


  • Fulfilling that info . . . . .round up anywhere from 1/2 thru 2 watt . . . . . . 100 and 220 ohm resistors and I will tell you howtodoittoit next.
I believe that the low circuit provided a laser output of < 1mW while the high side provided a laser output of around 3mW. That is all I know about the output. I can not even say if it is current or voltage controlled, but I am assuming current because of the junction transistors. The new laser diode needs a threashold or around 35mA to 40mA to lase but I am waiting on the data sheet from the supplier.

Thasssit . . . . .

Addenda:
I see that my assignment of the switch Alfa designations differ from yours, because I used up my AB on the battery lands, and thereby created the resultant error on the CDE and FGH designations.


Redraw of your Techno Referencing:

J7mWY5f.jpg





73's de Edd


.

Thanks. Nice drawing. It seems to make more sense than mine ever did. Let me know what I can do next.
 

davenn

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Knowing that the bottom row of pins is only used as switching for the resistors, it does not affect the neg side of the power structure as I see it. But I am probably wrong on this.

that's correct

it gives either the 33k and 13k in series or just the 13k on its own


I believe that the low circuit provided a laser output of < 1mW while the high side provided a laser output of around 3mW. That is all I know about the output. I can not even say if it is current or voltage controlled, but I am assuming current because of the junction transistors. The new laser diode needs a threshold or around 35mA to 40mA to lase but I am waiting on the data sheet from the supplier.

again, correct ... there is no need for 1/2W or higher rated resistors


hopefully you noticed my corrections to Edd's circuit :)
 
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73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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Greetings . . . . . .kind Sires . . . . . . . .


"Maybe you missed the comment in one of the earlier posts that the switch has a LOW, OFF, and HIGH
settings"


Exactly . . .I did . . .but now with that forthcoming info, I readily see the shunting of that resistor to establish TWO different power levels.
And all else of my explanations then fall fully into place.

As for what appears as a discreptancy on the switch type, which I always referred to as a DPDT, it seems after I drew in the AB battery dedicated connection lands,
I never pulled in, and drew in the left side of the switch to SEPARATE the AB lands and the switches CD contacts . . . . it thereby looked like a more complex switch.
That 1 ufd caps physical presence was covering up my even SEEING that switched 3V foil path, going up to connect to the top left corner of the switch.

"and 1uF cap drawing / location is incorrect"
But . .But . . . But but but . . . .The left side of the 1 ufd cap IS being connected to -3V /same-same-as / ground, while its right side IS connected to SWITCHED 3V+.



"Let me know what I can do next"
Wait for the parts to come in . . . . install the Laser and the crunched NPN laser driver transistor . . . . . . and then watch that sucka shine !

BTW . . .what is this Aus-straaaaay-le yun manufactured dee-vice ?


73's de Edd
 
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Hobby Junkie

Mar 20, 2016
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that's correct

it gives either the 33k and 13k in series or just the 13k on its own




again, correct ... there is no need for 1/2W or higher rated resistors


hopefully you noticed my corrections to Edd's circuit :)

Yes I did notice the changes. And I agree, 1/2W or higher are way out of specs for this small circuit.
 

Hobby Junkie

Mar 20, 2016
18
Joined
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Greetings . . . . . .kind Sires . . . . . . . .

.....



"Let me know what I can do next"
Wait for the parts to come in . . . . install the Laser and the crunched NPN laser driver transistor . . . . . . and then watch that sucka shine !

BTW . . .what is this Aus-straaaaay-le yun manufactured dee-vice ?


73's de Edd

I would like to say but when I contacted the manufacturer for assistance, they claimed intellectual property and shut the door so I was left to my own devices to try to ascertain a methodology to fix it. They were willing to sell me another one "like" but not "exactly like" it for a wonderful sum of $300+

I figured if I could debug it and identify the parts, then I could fix it for less than $20

I am going to have to change some elements because I have to up the voltage to 6VDC with a threshold current of 35mA to 40mA with a peak at around 50mA. This will give me an output of a higher mW based on replacement of the two controlling "HIGH/LOW" resistors. I suspect that I will have to up the NPN and PNP voltages as well. Will have to make sure that I do not violate any FDA rules concerning laser's

It's either that or I modify the circuit around this layout to get to the end results.

I am sure that I will need some more assistance and I want to thank you both for all the help that you have provided. I will keep this post updated on my progress......

First things first though....some circuit analysis to ascertain various component values.
 

davenn

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I am sure that I will need some more assistance and I want to thank you both for all the help that you have provided.


get used to making use of the "LIKE" button to thank those that help you

look forward to hearing how you get on


cheers
Dave
 

Hobby Junkie

Mar 20, 2016
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get used to making use of the "LIKE" button to thank those that help you

look forward to hearing how you get on


cheers
Dave
Of course. Same on the forum that I moderate. And I AM VERY appreciative of the assistance.
 
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