"ethics" (?) of forced supply purchases

[Don Y]

Hi Joel,

Sure, but one could ask... how many people really *needed* a
non-emergency landline? These days, if all you want to do is talk a bit
(no data plan), often a cell phone is actually cheaper than a landline.

(Note also that there emergency phones at $1/minute *simply wouldn't

Exactly! We're tickled to be able to "buy" that sort of "cheap
insurance" (remaining connected if stranded someplace) and
appreciate all the folks who've subsidized that for us!

Of course, we have no idea when that capability will go away...

exist* without the infrastructure that's paid for by people who just
want to chat about what Kim Kardashian is up to...)


Right. The bulk of the economic today revolves around things we just
"want;" clever monkeys that we are, the actual basic needs of food,
clothing, and shelter consume -- for many people -- only a modest part
of their income, leaving lots leftover for "wants."

There are several good texts that address these sorts of issues
(unfortunately, I've not been keeping a list). I'm currently
reading one that addresses how *pleasure* works in the brain...

So wasn't the line-line also such an excuse? -- Letters worked just
fine, they were just slower, right?


It's not OK to waste your time, although at least less of it will tend
to be wasted if you get some notification prior to the meeting. Just how
"not OK" it is depends on the actual reason, of course.

Depends on how important you are. Doctor's will charge you
for an appointment if you fail to give 24 hours notice of
a cancellation.

Granted, we can't (all) impose that sort of penalty on the folks
we deal with day-to-day. *But*, you can exert some pressure to
discourage behaviors that you aren't happy with (I was tempted to
call them "bad behaviors" but that implies a judgement call on
my part). E.g., friends who like to cancel on us at the last
minute tend to NOT get invited to future functions/activities.

<shrug>

 

[[email protected]]

Sure, but one could ask... how many people really *needed* a
non-emergency landline? These days, if all you want to do is talk a bit
(no data plan), often a cell phone is actually cheaper than a landline.

In some places, a cell phone is cheaper even if you talk a *lot*. Add in cost
of any long distance and land lines are ridiculous.

(Note also that there emergency phones at $1/minute *simply wouldn't
exist* without the infrastructure that's paid for by people who just
want to chat about what Kim Kardashian is up to...)

Sure. I wouldn't have a cash-back credit card without the people who actually
borrow money with them. ...or zero interest financing...

Right. The bulk of the economic today revolves around things we just
"want;" clever monkeys that we are, the actual basic needs of food,
clothing, and shelter consume -- for many people -- only a modest part
of their income, leaving lots leftover for "wants."

Yep. In fact that's why so many "need" to have both parents work. Their
wants have become "needs".

So wasn't the line-line also such an excuse? -- Letters worked just
fine, they were just slower, right?

It's not OK to waste your time, although at least less of it will tend
to be wasted if you get some notification prior to the meeting. Just
how "not OK" it is depends on the actual reason, of course.

I'm sure it's less "not OK" to not bother calling at all.

 

[Don Y]

Hi George,

Yes! That's my attitude. A good vendor is better than money in the
bank. You want them to succeed!

Yes -- but not too much! ;-)

There's all this talk about second sourcing, but lot's of times it's
nonsense.
(I wanted to use an excrement word, but refrained)
We've got lots of parts that we buy from just one place. You work
with your vendor and get it right. Qualifying a second vendor could
mean a serious time commitment.

There are two sides to this (of course). I've seen companies
find themselves scrambling when a vendor went belly up, left
a particular market, had a sudden upturn in business that
resulted in longer production delays, etc. I know of one
case where "Pa" retired and "Son" started making parts
"to print" (Pa never seemed to be able to do that). Customer
suddenly discovered "correct" parts being supplied -- which
were incompatible with the rest of the design (which had been
modified to adapt to Pa's "problems").

And then you've got to split your
order and 'screw' your original vendor. But purchasing thinks saving
10% on the price is what their job is about.....
Grumble.

Purchasing is a tricky business. You have to be concious of what
sort of business (volume) you are directing to each supplier -- BECAUSE
THEY SURELY ARE!

If you look at these relationships solely as dollars and cents,
you end up funneling all your business to the guy with the
best price. Then, when you get in trouble with "him" (or, when
you need some capability that he can't provide), you find the
other vendors giving you a less than warm reception!

I don't have much to offer on the profit from consumables/
replacements question. This is a service we provide to our customers
and we hope to break even. We make our money when they are happy and
buy more 'big ticket' items. Mostly I try and be honest. If it's a
part they can buy somewhere else I tell them where to get it. (It's
cheaper for us that way.)

As I said, "what business are you in: printers or ink?" (cameras
or film, tp dispensers or tp, etc.)

When dealing with The Unwashed Masses, things are particularly
difficult as consumers tend not to be able to perceive actual
costs associated with services. E.g., "I bought the whole
camera for $200 and they want $150 just to *fix* it!" or
"Heck, they want $30 for the *battery*!"

Personally, I don't want to deal with the customer after the sale.
I don't want to have to repair the device (what did I do wrong in
the design?). Or, patch a bug. Or, figure out which battery
he needs. Or, wait for him to decide what color *case* he wants
(and listen to him complaining because only black and brown
are offered: "Don't you have gun metal grey?")

 

[Hans-Bernhard Bröker]

I learned early on (from a Western Electric source inspector, of all
people), that if your part didn't match your print, yet your part
seemed to be acceptable as supplied, consider changing your print to
match your part. If only "Pa" had done this.

That's assuming anyone _informed_ "Pa" about that discrepancy in the
first place. If "Pa" never knew his parts did not actually match his
print, there was never any reason for him to change either. After all,
if it ain't broke, why fix it?

 

[Hans-Bernhard Bröker]

Gee, sounds like SodaStream: They "lease" you a CO2 cartridge, and
there's a very strongly-worded contract you have to sign stipulating
that you won't refill the cartridge... since of course they charge
something like 10x per refill as a regular gas vendor would.

OTOH, leased cartridges and a swap-empty-for-full-one scheme of handling
are just about the only way you'll ever manage to control the safety
risks involved. A high-pressure gas tank in a private home, where
nobody has the first idea about the safety issues involved, is a sure
recipe for aiming a nasty class-action law suit your way. Keeping
ownership of the cartridges enables the company to manage that risk.

 

[Don Y]

Hi Michael,

You KIDS!!! They used two-way radios.

"If these people NEED them (two way radios), then are you implying
that, previously, they were INCAPABLE of performing their duties?"

<grin>

["Turtles, all the way down!"]

A more expensive option was a
'mobile phone' from the phone company that cost you several thousand
dollars, high monthly fees and a dollar or more per minute of use. They
were usually installed in the vehicle, which added acouple hundred
dollars to the costs, and that lowered the resale value when you sold
it. I saw& repaired exactly ONE portable 'mobile phone'. It was owned
by a doctor and built in a oversize briefcase. It had a rotary phone
dial, and 'Gates' lead acid cells for power. He paid about $5,000 for
it, just to be able to get calls on the local golf course.

Yes, a friend was responsible for setting up Comms for things
like presidential visits, etc. He had just such a briefcase.
At the time, it was cool -- though obvious in functionality.
Now, it's almost laughable... :>

 

[Don Y]

Hi Michael,

But he should sell aviation fuel to that CEO in fractional ounce
plastic containers at $75 each. Let him worry that he can only extract
30% from each, and that it's only good for a couple months .

No. Rather, the cartridge refuses to dispense fuel after the
little chip claims enough has been dispensed -- regardless of
how much remains in the cartridge or how high over the ocean
the aircraft happens to be, at the time!

"We're sorry, but the license for your fuel has expired.
Stop by the nearest AvGasRUs store to redeem your used
cartridges for valuable prizes!"

 

[Don Y]

Hi Michael,

This offer not valid in the US, or its possessions! See label on
cartridge for full details.

This offer valid only at sea level! (not on your way SPIRALLING DOWN
*TO* IT!) :>

 

[Fred Abse]

Let me throw a curve ball into the mix: Suppose that we are dealing with a
medical device that _must_ function safely and the same way, not only in
America, but in Europe, Mexico, South America, Austrailia, India and Asia.
The prepackaged distilled water makes a lot more sense in this scenario.

Not to mention the possibility of having to demonstrate, in a court of
law, that the equipment was being operated in accordance with
manufacturer's instructions.

 

[josephkk]

I have someone to ask. I'll let you know.

Finally got around to asking.

?-/

 

[josephkk]

OTOH, leased cartridges and a swap-empty-for-full-one scheme of handling
are just about the only way you'll ever manage to control the safety
risks involved. A high-pressure gas tank in a private home, where
nobody has the first idea about the safety issues involved, is a sure
recipe for aiming a nasty class-action law suit your way. Keeping
ownership of the cartridges enables the company to manage that risk.

Maybe, and then only if the pressure regulator to the external world is
permanently part of the cartridge.

Just the same restaurants seem to be able to have plenty of trained
personnel to handle large cylinders of CO2 (2200 psi full). Not all
resituate personnel are the sharpest knives in the drawer. I am sure that
a civil suit or product liability suit defense lawyer could bring this up.

?-)

 

[josephkk]

Finally got around to asking.

?-/

Answer from another correspondent posted directly to s.e.d.

Repeating it here:

http://magnumlaser.com/shop/advance...BCI-6&search_in_description=1&categories_id=1

?-)

 

[Martin Brown]

Answer from another correspondent posted directly to s.e.d.

Repeating it here:

http://magnumlaser.com/shop/advance...BCI-6&search_in_description=1&categories_id=1

?-)

Those *are* the OEM Canon ones! And they are overpriced too!
Almost everything hitech is on an exchange rate of GBP £1 = $1 USD.

On a good day I can get authentic BCI-6 Bk for £6, CMY for £7 in the UK
and the more expensive PM and PC for £10. I can sometimes do even better
if there is a buy one get one half price deal on. Clones are much
cheaper, but they don't work at all and I don't run sufficient print
volume to justify a bottled ink conversion kit (which does work).

$15 each for BCI-6 does not look like a good price to me.

Amazon.com puts a bound on original Canon cartridges of $53/6 ~ $9

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-BCI-6-B...IXRM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335771485&sr=8-1

Some cheaper clone cartridges alson come up on a wider search but the
ones I have tested in the UK have been worse than useless. Thankfully
they didn't damage the print head but neither did they work well.