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Denon AVR 1709 vs Denon AVR 1909

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Skybuck Flying, Aug 14, 2009.

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  1. Hello,

    The salesman offered me a discount on the AVR 1909 which he has "in store"
    literally lol... it's the display model. He offered me this deal... the
    model has been on in the store for a while I presume he claimed he never
    really used it or put it on... because he mostly used another receiver.
    Somebody else says that receivers usually fail in the first year... because
    component failure shows up in the first year... after that it should work.
    However I don't really believe that because I know electronics can vaporize
    after a while. So I think/believe the device might last shorter. However I
    still find it an interesting deal because the 1909 has better video
    conversions and the manufacturers claims it's "ready for the future". And
    ofcourse it's immediatly availability since I could probably immediatly take
    it home. And because it did survive on year and because I could ask for a
    demonstration of the device, take my speakers to the store and test it out
    if I like the sound and I would have 6 year extended warranty, even 6 years
    would be kinda short for a close to 600 euro device but ok hopefully it will
    last longer.

    So to examine if this deal is really interesting I shall now compare the AVR
    1709 manual to the AVR 1909 manual to see if the 1909 has any more
    interesting features which might sweeten the deal even further.

    I shall start the examinations in a next post as to now disturb this story
    ;) :)

    Bye,
    Skybuck =D
     
  2. Differences AVR 1709 vs AVR 1909 manuals:

    AVR 1709 manual has 72 pages.
    AVR 1909 manual has 92 pages.

    Examination (description) locations:

    1. Safety instructions same.
    2. FCC information same.
    3. Contents page differences:

    AVR 1909 content page differences:

    3.1 Connections: About on-screen display due to input signals page 9.
    3.2 Connections: Blu-ray disc player / dvd player page 13.
    3.3 Connections: XM connector page 17.
    3.4 Connections: External controller page 20
    3.5 Menu operations: example of display of default values page 22.
    3.6 Menu operations: examples of On-screen Display and Font Display page 23.
    3.7 Auto setup: start menu page 26.
    3.8 Auto setup: parameter check page 29.
    3.9 System/Manual setup: many differences here so won't mention it here for
    now.
    3.10 Input setup seperated from manual setup.
    3.11 Information has more sub sections.
    3.12 Playback also has some changes to many to list here.

    4. Caution on handling same.
    5. Part names and functions same, display different.
    6. Display different:

    Many important differences, this is a big deal. AVR 1909 has many advanced
    indicators which will make figuring out what the device is doing and how
    it's configured much easier !

    AVR 1909 display differences/improvements:

    6.1 DIG. vs ANA. indicator.
    6.2 Input indicators: LFE, FL, C, FR, SL, S, SR, SBL, SB, SBR.
    6.3 HDMI indicator and secondary HDMI indicator.
    6.4 AUTO indicator (?).
    6.5 RESTORER indicator !
    6.6 NIGHT indicator !
    6.7 REC indicator
    6.8 PCM indicator
    6.9 EXT IN indicator.
    6.10 Extra DTS indicator.
    6.11. AUDYSSEY MULTEQ indicator !
    6.12. Output indicators: Z2, SW, FL, C, FR, SL, SR, SBL, SB, SBR
    6.13 Front A and/or B indicator.
    6.14 Extra character.
    6.15 TWO lines instead of one.

    From the looks of it the AVR 1909 seems to have a much better display ?!

    I will continue my examination in the next posting !

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
  3. Differences AVR 1709 vs AVR 1909 manuals:

    Examination (description) locations:

    6.16 HD audio indicator (new).
    6.17 Audessey dynamic volume indicator. (moved).

    Some of these 6.1 to 6.17 indicators have been moved or
    changed or are new compared to the 1709.
    Especially the input and output indicators are new/changed.
    And the restorer and night mode indicators are new.
    More efficient space use for the AVR 1909.
    Dig vs ana now probably better indicator too.

    7. Rear panel differences:

    AVR 1909:

    7.1 XM connector (SAT TU2) new.
    7.2 RF/RC2 WAY Jack new.
    7.3 Extra optical vcr connector.
    7.4 Extra button on remote 2 for XM select.

    (Note says don't press buttons to hard otherwise buttons on back side of
    remote 1 could be activated too... seems kinda delicate ! both models have
    the same main remote, model number
    for both remotes was increased by 1 though: main rc-1099, sub: rc-1107 ).

    8. Cables used for connection pictures same.

    9. Video conversion function different:

    AVR 1909 has extra video conversions for input to output:

    9.1 Composite video to HDMI.
    9.2 S-video to HDMI.
    9.3 Component video to HDMI.
    9.4 Component video to s-video or composite video possible for 480i/576i
    signals.
    (Conversions might be resolution dependant (?), lower resolutions on input
    device to make it work (?)).

    10. New section: About On-Screen displays due to input signals. (I don't
    understand this part).
    It mentions turning display on and off and OSD/display thingies.

    I shall continue examination in a next posting.

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
  4. Differences AVR 1709 vs AVR 1909 manuals:

    Examination (description) locations:

    11. Speaker installation same.

    12. Speaker connections different picture and notes !

    This is a slightly disturbing discovery for the 1709...
    The 1709 manual only shows a 5.1 setup.
    Does this mean the 1709 device is secretly limited to 5.1 ? probably not.

    AVR 1909 shows a 7.1 picture: Back speakers connected too.
    However 1909 also have back speaker outputs set to zone2 by default... and
    does not output
    sound... little bit weird description there.
    This would need to be changed to enable it to be 7.1 as well just like 1709
    manual says.
    But the avr 1909 explains it a bit better.

    Point 12 probably not a big deal, just manual/options issue.

    13. Connecting the speaker cables same.

    14. Connecting equipment with hdmi connectors different:

    AVR 1909 differences:

    14.1 video and audio signals are transferred with a single cable (hdmi 1.3a)
    14.2 Compatible audio format listings:

    14.2.1 Two channels linear PCM: 32-192 kHz 16/20/24 bits:
    CD,DVD-Video,DVD-Audio (examples).
    14.2.2 Multi/Eight channel linear PCM: 32-192 kHz 16/20/24 bits: DVD-Audio,
    Blu-ray (examples).
    14.2.3 Dolby Digital, DTS: Bitstream: DVD Video (examples)
    14.2.4 Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD: Bitstream: Blue-Ray
    (examples)

    14.3 Copyright protection system (HDCP-compatible) (Blue-Ray, DVD-Video,
    DVD-Audio Discs and Devices) (Hopefully this can be cracked ? :) I don't
    like copyright protection systems in general but for me for now probably
    don't matter ;)) (At least this should assure that valid discs can be
    played.)

    Point 14 could be interesting for the future for me personally, I don't have
    HDMI television, nor blue ray players or whatever. And when I do buy a blue
    ray player it will probably be in my pc but ok. For other people this might
    be a cool feature ! ;)

    15. Connecting Blue-Ray/DVD player updated with some (manual) notes.

    16. Connecting CD Player and/or iPod different.

    AVR 1909 can probably play iPod Video and/or Photos on TV monitor without
    requiring extra connections. Who the hell has an iPod anyway, not me lol...
    but I know many USA people probably have one ! ;) So they might love this
    future if they have an iPod with video/photo capabilities ?!?!

    17. TV/Cable tuner different:

    AVR 1909 has extra hdmi support it seems.

    18. Video Cassette recorder different.

    AVR 1909 extra connection options for video cassette recorders picture.

    AVR 1909 has probably extra support for HDMI (out to cassette) and Optical
    audio (out and in).

    AVR 1909 has probably a warning note: "be carefull with optical output 2"


    I will continue my examination in a next posting.

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
  5. Differences AVR 1709 vs AVR 1909 manuals:

    Examination (description) locations:

    19. CD Recorder / MD Recorder / Tape Deck connections same.

    20. Video camera / game console connections same.

    21. Component with multi channel output connectors same except:

    AVR 1909 has copyright note for dvd player removed ? Hmm.

    22. XM Connector (new section)

    Apperently XM is XM Satellite Radio and requires extra devices/antenna's and
    a subscription to a service ?!

    Maybe somebody knows a way around the subscription, or maybe some of the XM
    is free to try it out ? Would be cool... but then again... who needs this
    with internet radio ? But then again... if you a farmer without internet...
    maybe you gonna love this... but there is also some satellite internet out
    there... but that probably sux and is probably way more expensive too ;)

    23. Sirius connector same, with extra notes for AVR 1909.

    24. Positioning the Antenna, same.

    (I wonder if I can get an antenna with my device at the store... I will just
    ask for the fun of it and for my curiosity statisfaction LOL ! :))
    (Ya never know... antenna;s might be nice when all hell breaks loose ;) :)
    or maybe satellites will be destroyed then too LOL :(... :))

    25. Antenna terminals same.

    26. Multi-zone same.

    27. External Controller (new section)

    AVR 1909: Has support for a RF remote receiver RC-7001RCI and controller
    RC-7001CI
    (Apperently that's an advanced remote control also from Denon.)

    Links to remote receiver and control:

    Receiver:
    http://outlet.crutchfield.com/S-Emh1ELDdXu8/p_033RC7001R/Denon-RC-7001RCI.html?cc=07
    Control:
    http://www.crutchfield.com/p_033RC7000C/Denon-RC-7000CI.html?tp=21322

    28. Connecting the power cord same.

    29. Operations different.

    This is a BIG BIG BIG deal:

    According to the AVR 1909 it can do On-Screen Display if I understand this
    correctly...
    That would be real nice ! I will definetly ask the salesman to give me a
    demonstration of it to see if this is the thruth/real ! =D
    He really wants to sell this sucker because Denon sales going bad at his
    store hihihihi. He better give me a demonstration of this ! >=D Because it
    sounds to good to be true ! =D

    AVR 1909: The menu map in the manual now apperently points towards other
    pages to explain the on screen display screens ! I like this !


    I will continue my examination in a next posting !

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
  6. Differences AVR 1709 vs AVR 1909 manuals:

    Examination (description) locations:

    Menu map differences for AVR 1909:

    29.1 Auto setup menu (same and new)

    29.1.1 Start menu (same)

    29.1.2 Parameter Check menu (new)
    29.1.2.1 Speaker Configuration Check (new)
    29.1.2.2 Distance Check (new)
    29.1.2.1 Channel Level Check (new)
    29.1.2.1 Crossover Frequency Check (new)
    29.1.2.1 EQ check (new)
    29.1.2.1 Restore (same/moved here)

    29.2 (System=)Manual setup menu (many) differences:

    29.2.1 Speaker setup menu differences:
    29.2.1.1 Channel level (new)
    29.2.1.2 Front Speaker Setup (new)
    29.2.1.3 Test Tone (removed ?)
    29.2.1.4 Restore (moved to parameter check menu I think.)

    29.2.2 HDMI Setup menu (new)
    29.2.2.1 Color Space (new)
    29.2.2.2 RGB Range (new)
    29.2.2.3 Auto Lipsync (new)
    29.2.2.4 HDMI Audio Out (new)
    29.2.2.5 HDMI Control (new)
    29.2.2.6 Power Off control (new)

    29.2.3 Audio Setup menu (partially new)
    29.2.3.1 EXT. IN Subwoofer Level (same)
    29.2.3.2 Two channel Direct/Stereo (new or same not sure)
    29.2.3.3 Dolby Digital Setup (new)
    29.2.3.4 Auto Surround Mode (same)
    29.2.3.5 EQ Preset (new)

    29.2.4 Zone2 setup menu (new)
    29.2.4.1 Level left channel (new)
    29.2.4.2 Level right channel (new)
    29.2.4.3 Volume limit (same)
    29.2.4.4 Power On Level (same)
    29.2.4.5 Mute Level (same)

    29.2.5 Option Setup menu (partially new)
    29.2.5.1 Amp Assign (same)
    29.2.5.2 Volume control (same and removed or changed ?)
    29.2.5.3 Source Delete (new)
    29.2.5.4 On-Screen Display (NEW !)
    29.2.5.5 Quick Select Name (new)
    29.2.5.6 Remote ID Setup (same)
    29.2.5.7 2Way Remote (new) (what is this ?)
    29.2.5.8 Display (new)
    29.2.5.9 Setup Lock (probably same or slightly new/changed)

    29.2.6 Input Setup moved to seperate menu.

    29.3 Input setup menu differences:

    29.3.1 TUNER (FM/AM) menu (new)
    29.3.1.1 Auto Preset (new)
    29.3.1.2 Preset Skip (new)
    29.3.1.3 Preset Name (new)
    29.3.1.4 Video (new)
    29.3.1.5 Input Mode (new)
    29.3.1.6 Rename (new)
    29.3.1.7 Source Level (new)

    29.3.2 CD,CDR/TAPE,DVD,HDP,TV/CBL,VCR,V.AUX menu (new)
    29.3.2.1 Assign (new)
    29.3.2.2 Video (new)
    29.3.2.3 Input mode (new)
    29.3.2.4 Rename (new)
    29.3.2.5 Source Level (new)
    29.3.2.6 iPod (new)

    29.3.3 XM menu (new)
    29.3.3.1 Preset Skip (new)
    29.3.3.2 Antenna Aiming (new) (sounds advanced ?! gje lol)
    29.3.3.3 Video (new)
    29.3.3.4 Input Mode (new)
    29.3.3.5 Rename (new)
    29.3.3.6 Source Level (new)

    29.3.4 SIRIUS menu (new)
    29.3.4.1 Preset Skip (new)
    29.3.4.2 Parental Lock (new) (hmmm anything dirty on there ? lol)
    29.3.4.3 Antenna Aiming (new)
    29.3.4.4 Assign (new)
    29.3.4.5 Video (new) (video for sirius ? is that just display or video via
    satellite hmm ?)
    29.3.4.6 Input Mode (new)
    29.3.4.7 Rename (new)
    29.3.4.8 Source Level (new)

    (Seeing the parental lock has got me intrigued :) LOL nrop anyway LOL ? ;)
    :))

    29.4 Parameter menu (same and new)

    Most parameters same and stuffed into sub menu's.
    I won't mention the same parameters only the new parameters:

    29.4.1 Dynamic Range Compression
    29.4.2 Setting
    29.4.3 Audio Delay
    29.4.4 (Default removed).

    29.5 Information menu (same and new)

    29.5.1 Status menu (same and new)
    29.5.1.1 MAIN ZONE
    29.5.1.2 ZONE2

    29.5.2 Audio Input Signal menu (new)
    29.5.3 HDMI Information menu (new)
    29.5.4 Auto Surround Mode menu (new)
    29.5.5 Quick Select menu (new)
    29.5.6 Preset Station menu (new)


    I will continue my examination in a next posting !

    I am already convinced that the AVR 1909 is a much better deal than the AVR
    1709.

    (Buying the 1709 could have been a major mistake ! ;) :))

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
  7. Terry Casey schreef:
    Hey Terry Casey, please refrain from swearing in Dutch in a Dutch
    Languaged newsgroup. I feel offended! By the way, there are enough parts
    of the country which are way above sealevel and since you don't know
    where the braindead troll is coming from, you're not sure his posts
    would cease...
     
  8. Hellooo,

    Today I bought the Denon AVR 1909.

    I carried it home... it was very heavy... I had to rest the thing on some
    poles here and there.

    It weights 25.4 ponds, that's about 11.5 kilogram.

    I don't know if that includes the manual... but the manual was huge LOL. The
    biggest manual ever LOL.

    I will make a photograph/picture of it... just to show you guys (who dont
    know) how huge that sucker is ! :)

    Totally funny.

    Pfew... fortunately I got some help from my friendly neighbours and such who
    held the doors open... that helped hugely ! ;) :)

    Then I did some other things today... also had to re-gain my strength in my
    hands, and hand joints....

    I got a demonstration/display model which stood in the store for about a
    year or so... so I got a little discount... I am cool with that.

    I also made sure I have a "no good, money back garantuee" since I am not
    100% that it will give 7.1 surround sound with analog inputs and analog
    outputs... one guy on the internet/creative web forums said that it wouldn't
    but I don't believe that since there is no indication in manual for that...
    so I think it's gonna work... tomorrow I will give it a try. I also still
    need some extra cable to connect all speakers... because I only got 24
    meters of cable.. and that might not be enough to tuck everything away
    nicely... and I really want to tuck it away nicely... so if it don't reach
    then next saturday a store will hopefully have new cable which would come
    from another electronics store that died :)

    I spent the following bucks:

    1. 583 euro's on receiver.
    2. 95,95 about 100 euro's on extended warranty for 6 years.
    (Salesman said that was very wise :))
    3. 50 euro's for extra cables like: two 1 stereo to 3 rca outputs
    cable/connectors. one 1 stero to 2 rca outputs cable/connectors. I also got
    some stereo splitters just in case the cables wouldn't fit to the
    soundblaster but they seem to fit so it's ok. store only had 2 splitters...
    I would have needed 4... so they will also have new splitters if I ever need
    them but probably not... So the 3 cables is real nice because it doesn't
    require any extra splitters or connection joints might be better for sound
    quality.

    4. 18 euro or so... on 24 meter audio cable. It has nice black/red cables so
    I should be able to always connect it properly ! ;) :) (Creative Labs could
    learn from this ! ;) :) <- Silly people :))

    Anyway that makes a rough total of: 751

    Ouch ! ;)

    My budget was kinda 600 euro... so little bit over budget lol... but what
    else is new today ? ;)

    Anyway another 18 bucks will probably go it as well...

    And I still don't have a subwoofer which I probably won't be needing not
    sure yet.

    I made sure I got everything that should be in the box:

    1. USA Warranty papers
    2. Manual
    3. Remote control
    4. Power cable
    5. Receiver ;)
    6. Sub remote control (?) hmm can't remember if I saw it I think so ;)
    (There were actually 2 main controls in the box... one was probably for
    another device... I said I don't mind getting both, maybe one is broken :)
    but he said nono probably for another device lol... so I checked manual to
    make sure which one belongs to mine so that was good)
    7. Antenna !
    8. Microphone for configuration !

    I was kinda pleasantly surprised to see the antenna cord ?! I wasn't
    expecting it... they still hadded so that's nice.
    9. Antenna loop I think I saw that too.

    The only thing that might be missing are the batteries ?! hmmm that would be
    kinda shitty...

    I am wondering if the guy was nice enough to add some batteries or if he
    overlooked this...
    According to the manual... it would come with batteries !

    While he was packing the box I went somewhere else to do some shopping and
    such and later came back... it would be kinda annoying if there weren't any
    batteries because then I would have to use the batteries of my digital
    camera... and charge them etc...

    Four batteries actually, 2 for primairy, 2 for secondary remote.

    Maybe I go nag about batteries I don't know yet... batteries can be quite
    expensive... 10 bucks ! or so... I think I already payed enough but ok...

    But on the other hand... I do want rechargeable batteries... I am not sure
    if Denon supplies rechargeable batteries with there receivers... that's an
    interesting question worthy of an investigation ! =D

    The main remote probably doesn't suck to much power so I am pretty confident
    that my digital camera batteries have enough juice to be able to configure
    the device tomorrow or so.

    I am kinda curious about the antenna's... it's be a long long long long long
    long time since I played with antenna's. To bad I will probably need a
    subscription for it ? Or maybe there is a freeby radio channel somewhere ;)
    :)
    FM/AM probably free... XM maybe payed only ? Hmm ;)

    Well that's pretty much it really. Only thing left to say is that my "no
    good, money back garantuee" only applies as long as I don't blow up the
    receiver... but I said to him... even if that happens the warranty should
    kick in ? But he said nope: "That's a user fault"...

    So I agree with that... because I can't imagine that I would blow it up any
    time soon... unless the sabotaged it ?! ;)

    I never heard of a receiver blowing up ? Have you ? What could cause it ? ;)

    I didn't ask for a presentation of the device... I already presumable did
    that a couple of days ago.. so I trust that the device worked when I brought
    it home ! ;)

    Tomorrow I will give the device a try. I need to cut some cables as well..
    fortunately I have some sharp knifes and sciccors... probably better to do
    it with "no-eating-equipment" :)

    I don't want plastic in my food ;) :) I always check though ;) so that won't
    happen so fast to me... but I don't even want micro-scopic plastic in my
    food !

    I just don't have the strenth in my right hand to do any cutting at the
    moment I am sorrryyyyy but not really ;) :) I can wait a day ! =D

    Fingers crossed on the 7.1 support ! ;)

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
  9. Interesting,

    The XM and Sirius components seem to have been removed for the European
    version ?!

    Hmmm... it does have AM and FM though ;)

    (Also mine didn't come with a sub-remote, but it did come with batteries for
    the main remote...)

    I will inform about the sub-remote at the shop to see if I can get that one
    too... I might not need it but it might be more handy... kinda strange...
    the manual does mention it... but it's not in the "check list".

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
  10. Because Denon (documents) doesn't say that there is an European version.

    Surprise Surprise !

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
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