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Current Regulator

D

Dystopia

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have a motor home which has the main battery for the engine and an
auxiliary battery to supply the lighting etc in the living area. With
the ignition off a relay switches the auxiliary battery to supply the
living area but when the vehicle is running the relay connects the
auxiliary battery in parallel with the main battery so that it is
charged. The circuit is badly designed because if the auxiliary
battery is flat and the main battery is fully charged (which it always
is) there is a very high current surge from the main battery to the
auxiliary which blows the 30A inline fuse. I, therefore, need to
insert a circuit to restrict the current to say 20A max.

Can anyone say where there is a suitable circuit diagram on the web?
 
M

Martin Riddle

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dystopia said:
I have a motor home which has the main battery for the engine and an
auxiliary battery to supply the lighting etc in the living area. With
the ignition off a relay switches the auxiliary battery to supply the
living area but when the vehicle is running the relay connects the
auxiliary battery in parallel with the main battery so that it is
charged. The circuit is badly designed because if the auxiliary
battery is flat and the main battery is fully charged (which it always
is) there is a very high current surge from the main battery to the
auxiliary which blows the 30A inline fuse. I, therefore, need to
insert a circuit to restrict the current to say 20A max.

Can anyone say where there is a suitable circuit diagram on the web?

You need a battery isolator, Typically 2 diodes back to back, like...
http://www.overland.co.za/Dual_Battery/dual_batt_diode.jpg

The charge current for a lead acid battery group 24, can be quite high >100 amps, depending upon the alternator. That said,
I think 30A is a little under sized. A Properly sized circuit breaker would be better.

I recommend a isolator such as http://www.campingworld.com/browse/products/index.cfm?prodID=1869&src=SRQB


Cheers
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have a motor home which has the main battery for the engine and an
auxiliary battery to supply the lighting etc in the living area. With
the ignition off a relay switches the auxiliary battery to supply the
living area but when the vehicle is running the relay connects the
auxiliary battery in parallel with the main battery so that it is
charged. The circuit is badly designed because if the auxiliary
battery is flat and the main battery is fully charged (which it always
is) there is a very high current surge from the main battery to the
auxiliary which blows the 30A inline fuse. I, therefore, need to
insert a circuit to restrict the current to say 20A max.

Can anyone say where there is a suitable circuit diagram on the web?

A 12-volt light bulb, which is a nice nonlinear resistor. Car or
motorcycle headlamp maybe. It also serves as a charging indicator!

John
 
R

Ross Herbert

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have a motor home which has the main battery for the engine and an
auxiliary battery to supply the lighting etc in the living area. With
the ignition off a relay switches the auxiliary battery to supply the
living area but when the vehicle is running the relay connects the
auxiliary battery in parallel with the main battery so that it is
charged. The circuit is badly designed because if the auxiliary
battery is flat and the main battery is fully charged (which it always
is) there is a very high current surge from the main battery to the
auxiliary which blows the 30A inline fuse. I, therefore, need to
insert a circuit to restrict the current to say 20A max.

Can anyone say where there is a suitable circuit diagram on the web?


You need a "smart" dual battery isolator. A simple "back to back
diode" isolator is no good, it does exactly the same as your existing
relay controlled unit.

Guest make a range of smart isolators starting around 70A rating and
you couldn't build your own any cheaper. Most marine or RV dealers
will sell battery isolators.
eg.
http://www.northeastmarineelectronics.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4108
 
I

Ian Malcolm

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ross said:
You need a "smart" dual battery isolator. A simple "back to back
diode" isolator is no good, it does exactly the same as your existing
relay controlled unit.

Guest make a range of smart isolators starting around 70A rating and
you couldn't build your own any cheaper. Most marine or RV dealers
will sell battery isolators.
eg.
http://www.northeastmarineelectronics.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4108

I have a similar setup that cross connects the engine and house battery
on a small yacht. I never have any trouble with it BUT it differs from
the OP's in two crucial details:

1. The relay is rated 80A and fused at 70A (greater than the alternator
rated output). All the wiring is rated over 80A.

2. The alternator output goes to the house battery, as it the one that
needs the most charging.

(This may be more trouble to set up than its worth on a motorhome - the
engine battery can end up low quite easily if the lights are left on
with the house battery still fully charged so the combiner has to be
designed to handle EITHER battery flat with the other one charged. Also
fitting wiring between the batteries and from the alternator to the
house battery capable of handling the full alternator output and
protecting that wiring against short circuits may be a quite difficult
undertaking. The alternator MUST either be machine sensed or the sense
wire moved to the house battery. If the capacity of the house battery is
much greater than the engine battery its worth it though for better and
quicker charging)


Commercial units usually have quite strict restrictions on the MAXIMUM
wire size and MINIMUM length to use which ensure there is sufficient
resistance in circuit to keep the surge current below their switching
rating.

Assuming the existing unit is controlled by the ignition switch,v a flat
battery at nominally 10V (one isn't supposed to take a lead acid battery
below 10.5V) paralleled with a fully charged one at an absolute maximum
of 13.8V only gives 3.8V differential. It needs a total resistance of
0.1266 ohm to limit the current to 30A.

Even 0.1 ohm in series would probably cure the OP's problem.

(WARNING, at 30A a 0.1 ohm resistor will dissipate 90 watts - This will
be a problem if one of the batteries has a shorted cell. Its a lot
simpler to get rid of the heat safely over several meters of wiring
rather than at a single component.)

There are only two occasions (neglecting short circuits) that the fuse
should blow:
If you are trying to pull STARTING current through the relay, e.g. the
house battery is fully charged and the engine one is bad or has a loose
connection.
If your house battery has a shorted cell.


If the existing unit is controlled by either the alternator warning lamp
output or senses the charging voltage, then the battery being charged
gets up to nearly 15V and you either need a little more resistance in
the circuit (0.166 ohm) or a relay rated higher than the alternator
output (the alternator cant hold the voltage on a battery over its
resting level at currents higher than the alternators rated output)

Fitting a Guest unit (or equivalent) rated greater than the vehicles
alternator output, *AND* rewiring to the correct specs for the new unit
would probably be the easiest and safest solution though.
 
W

Warren Weber

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dystopia said:
I have a motor home which has the main battery for the engine and an
auxiliary battery to supply the lighting etc in the living area. With
the ignition off a relay switches the auxiliary battery to supply the
living area but when the vehicle is running the relay connects the
auxiliary battery in parallel with the main battery so that it is
charged. The circuit is badly designed because if the auxiliary
battery is flat and the main battery is fully charged (which it always
is) there is a very high current surge from the main battery to the
auxiliary which blows the 30A inline fuse. I, therefore, need to
insert a circuit to restrict the current to say 20A max.

Can anyone say where there is a suitable circuit diagram on the web?

I had the dual diode isolator on my motor home. Due to the voltage drop in
the diode the 2nd battery never seems to reach full charge. Changed to the
relay set up and put a 50 amp breaker in series to 2nd battery. every thing
work fine now. W W
 
D

Dystopia

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks for all the ideas. An isolator is the real answer and if I was
designing it from scratch that is what I would use but the relay
serves as an isolator albeit a very poor one. I had thought of using
a resistance to limit the flow and the bulb is a good idea but I am
concerned about the heat generated in the small space where the
circuits are installed.

For info. I have draw a wiring diagram of the circuit, as it is, and
put it here:

http://vanwiring.hobby-site.com

I had thought in terms of a simple circuit using a 2N3055 with a zener
in the common base circuit and if you scroll down below the wiring
diagram on the web site I have sketched what I mean. Anyone any ideas
about this one please?
 
Thanks for all the ideas. An isolator is the real answer and if I was
designing it from scratch that is what I would use but the relay
serves as an isolator albeit a very poor one. I had thought of using
a resistance to limit the flow and the bulb is a good idea but I am
concerned about the heat generated in the small space where the
circuits are installed.

For info. I have draw a wiring diagram of the circuit, as it is, and
put it here:

http://vanwiring.hobby-site.com

I had thought in terms of a simple circuit using a 2N3055 with a zener
in the common base circuit and if you scroll down below the wiring
diagram on the web site I have sketched what I mean. Anyone any ideas
about this one please?

I was hoping someone would come up with a circuit since I could use
such a box myself. I really don't think you can make a decent
controller without some current limiting. I did a few back of the
envelope designs for this application awhile ago and concluded
anything linear makes too much heat. You would probably need a
hysteretic current-mode controller. It is best to have a working
design since there are plenty of gotchas in switchers.
 
D

Dystopia

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks for all the ideas. An isolator is the real answer and if I was
designing it from scratch that is what I would use but the relay
serves as an isolator albeit a very poor one. I had thought of using
a resistance to limit the flow and the bulb is a good idea but I am
concerned about the heat generated in the small space where the
circuits are installed.

For info. I have draw a wiring diagram of the circuit, as it is, and
put it here:

http://vanwiring.hobby-site.com

I had thought in terms of a simple circuit using a 2N3055 with a zener
in the common base circuit and if you scroll down below the wiring
diagram on the web site I have sketched what I mean. Anyone any ideas
about this one please?

As I have written a resistive device would radiate too much heat for
the confined space I have to install a circuit. I did not think that
my problem was very demanding and am surprised that no one has come up
with an active circuit so I have installed a large choke in series
with the fuse hoping that this will be sufficient to remove the spike,
time will tell.
 
E

ehsjr

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dystopia said:
As I have written a resistive device would radiate too much heat for
the confined space I have to install a circuit. I did not think that
my problem was very demanding and am surprised that no one has come up
with an active circuit so I have installed a large choke in series
with the fuse hoping that this will be sufficient to remove the spike,
time will tell.


You could use the resistive limiting, and use a circuit
to spread the charging out over time so that the temperature
does not increase as much.

But I'm curious. If, as you say, the real answer is
an isolator, why not use that?

Ed
 
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