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Bridge Rectifier Problem.......!!!!!!!

J

jo.jo

Jan 1, 1970
0
I am trying to construct a small desktop power supply and have noticed
a small problem when measuring the output voltage from my bridge
rectifier. The rectifier is constructed from four 1N4001. When i
apply a AC wave (sin) to the input and measure the output, using a
oscilloscope, the bridge rectifier seems to produce only halfwave
rectification. I was expecting full wave rectification. Can anyone
suggest what i am doing wrong ?
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
jo.jo said:
I am trying to construct a small desktop power supply and have noticed
a small problem when measuring the output voltage from my bridge
rectifier. The rectifier is constructed from four 1N4001. When i
apply a AC wave (sin) to the input and measure the output, using a
oscilloscope, the bridge rectifier seems to produce only halfwave
rectification. I was expecting full wave rectification. Can anyone
suggest what i am doing wrong ?

Not enough info sadly.

Is there anywhere you can post a schematic showing what you did?

Graham
 
S

Stanislaw Flatto

Jan 1, 1970
0
jo.jo said:
I am trying to construct a small desktop power supply and have noticed
a small problem when measuring the output voltage from my bridge
rectifier. The rectifier is constructed from four 1N4001. When i
apply a AC wave (sin) to the input and measure the output, using a
oscilloscope, the bridge rectifier seems to produce only halfwave
rectification. I was expecting full wave rectification. Can anyone
suggest what i am doing wrong ?

Can you be more specific.
Do you see half sinusoic signals of the same polarity and twice the
frequency of input?
Or you see half sinusoic signals with the period of input and missing
equal periods between them?

If the first then you have correct "full wave rectification". What did
you expect?

HTH

Stanislaw
 
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
I am trying to construct a small desktop power supply and have noticed
a small problem when measuring the output voltage from my bridge
rectifier. The rectifier is constructed from four 1N4001. When i
apply a AC wave (sin) to the input and measure the output, using a
oscilloscope, the bridge rectifier seems to produce only halfwave
rectification. I was expecting full wave rectification. Can anyone
suggest what i am doing wrong ?


---
You probably have something miswired or a diode in backwards. The
circuit should look like this:

(View in Courier)


+----------+------>+DC
|K |K
[1N4001] [1N4001]
| |
120AC>--------+ +--+ |
P||S | |
R||E | |
I||C | |
120AC>--------+ +--|----------+
| |
|K |K
[1N4001] [1N4001]
| |
+----------+------>-DC

"K" is the diode cathodes, and with your scope ground connected to
-DC and the probe to +DC you should see full-wave rectified AC
 
J

jo.jo

Jan 1, 1970
0
Stanislaw said:
Can you be more specific.
Do you see half sinusoic signals of the same polarity and twice the
frequency of input?
Or you see half sinusoic signals with the period of input and missing
equal periods between them?

If the first then you have correct "full wave rectification". What did
you expect?

HTH

Stanislaw

the output signal from my rectifier consists of positive half of a sin
wave and then a flat line ( 0v more or less ) and is the same frequency
as the input. a bridge rectifer essentially takes a sine wave and
inverts the negative half, hence the frequency doubles. this inverted
negative half is what i am missing from my output.

i bread boarded the rectifier ( made from four 1n4001 ) and applied a
sin wave from a signal generator to the input and measured the output
on a oscilloscope. the output from the rectifier seems to be missing
the inverted negative half cycle.

i thought mayby it has something to do with the way the oscilloscope
and signal generator ground there signals or i am simply using the
equipment wrong. however i am sure that i have set everthing up
correctly

i am using 15V at 50 Hz to test the bridge rectifier and the amplitude
of the output ( for the posistive half of the input ) is consistant
with the conversion from rms to peak values and the losses you would
expect in the diodes.
 
J

jo.jo

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
I am trying to construct a small desktop power supply and have noticed
a small problem when measuring the output voltage from my bridge
rectifier. The rectifier is constructed from four 1N4001. When i
apply a AC wave (sin) to the input and measure the output, using a
oscilloscope, the bridge rectifier seems to produce only halfwave
rectification. I was expecting full wave rectification. Can anyone
suggest what i am doing wrong ?


---
You probably have something miswired or a diode in backwards. The
circuit should look like this:

(View in Courier)


+----------+------>+DC
|K |K
[1N4001] [1N4001]
| |
120AC>--------+ +--+ |
P||S | |
R||E | |
I||C | |
120AC>--------+ +--|----------+
| |
|K |K
[1N4001] [1N4001]
| |
+----------+------>-DC

"K" is the diode cathodes, and with your scope ground connected to
-DC and the probe to +DC you should see full-wave rectified AC


John if im being stupid here please slap me down but i tried your
circuit and while it does indeed take a ac wave and convert it into a
bumpy dc wave it is not full wave rectification. As i understand it,
full wave rectification of a sin wave inverts the negative half of the
wave. This produces a positive only signal twice the frequency of the
input. Your circuit does not do this.

if you have the time try it out and let me know.....maybe the problem
here is how i have my equipment configured, if there is anything i
should be aware of here please let us know.

thanks
 
P

petrus bitbyter

Jan 1, 1970
0
jo.jo said:
the output signal from my rectifier consists of positive half of a sin
wave and then a flat line ( 0v more or less ) and is the same frequency
as the input. a bridge rectifer essentially takes a sine wave and
inverts the negative half, hence the frequency doubles. this inverted
negative half is what i am missing from my output.

i bread boarded the rectifier ( made from four 1n4001 ) and applied a
sin wave from a signal generator to the input and measured the output
on a oscilloscope. the output from the rectifier seems to be missing
the inverted negative half cycle.

i thought mayby it has something to do with the way the oscilloscope
and signal generator ground there signals or i am simply using the
equipment wrong. however i am sure that i have set everthing up
correctly

i am using 15V at 50 Hz to test the bridge rectifier and the amplitude
of the output ( for the posistive half of the input ) is consistant
with the conversion from rms to peak values and the losses you would
expect in the diodes.

Suppose the output of your signal generator and the input of your
oscilloscope share a common ground.

petrus bitbyter
 
J

jo.jo

Jan 1, 1970
0
petrus said:
Suppose the output of your signal generator and the input of your
oscilloscope share a common ground.

petrus bitbyter

Both of them are grounded so yes they do how would this be a problem ?
 
J

jo.jo

Jan 1, 1970
0
petrus said:
Suppose the output of your signal generator and the input of your
oscilloscope share a common ground.

petrus bitbyter

Ok so common ground is effecting my scope and distorting my waveform.
can anyone suggest a way of overcoming this, or a procedure test the
output of a rectifier. my signal generator is intergrated to my scope
so the output of the sig gen is always grounded. as for the input to
the oscilloscope, my probe has a ground lead. This however makes no
differance to output wave if it is attached or not. ( a very small
differance does occure in the shape of the wave but it is negligible )
 
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
I am trying to construct a small desktop power supply and have noticed
a small problem when measuring the output voltage from my bridge
rectifier. The rectifier is constructed from four 1N4001. When i
apply a AC wave (sin) to the input and measure the output, using a
oscilloscope, the bridge rectifier seems to produce only halfwave
rectification. I was expecting full wave rectification. Can anyone
suggest what i am doing wrong ?


---
You probably have something miswired or a diode in backwards. The
circuit should look like this:

(View in Courier)


+----------+------>+DC
|K |K
[1N4001] [1N4001]
| |
120AC>--------+ +--+ |
P||S | |
R||E | |
I||C | |
120AC>--------+ +--|----------+
| |
|K |K
[1N4001] [1N4001]
| |
+----------+------>-DC

"K" is the diode cathodes, and with your scope ground connected to
-DC and the probe to +DC you should see full-wave rectified AC


John if im being stupid here please slap me down but i tried your
circuit and while it does indeed take a ac wave and convert it into a
bumpy dc wave it is not full wave rectification. As i understand it,
full wave rectification of a sin wave inverts the negative half of the
wave. This produces a positive only signal twice the frequency of the
input. Your circuit does not do this.

if you have the time try it out and let me know
 
J

jo.jo

Jan 1, 1970
0
jo.jo said:
I am trying to construct a small desktop power supply and have noticed
a small problem when measuring the output voltage from my bridge
rectifier. The rectifier is constructed from four 1N4001. When i
apply a AC wave (sin) to the input and measure the output, using a
oscilloscope, the bridge rectifier seems to produce only halfwave
rectification. I was expecting full wave rectification. Can anyone
suggest what i am doing wrong ?

thanks to john, petrus and everyone else who replied i am sure you will
hear from me again..... ;- )
 
M

Michael Black

Jan 1, 1970
0
jo.jo" ([email protected]) said:
Ok so common ground is effecting my scope and distorting my waveform.
can anyone suggest a way of overcoming this, or a procedure test the
output of a rectifier. my signal generator is intergrated to my scope
so the output of the sig gen is always grounded. as for the input to
the oscilloscope, my probe has a ground lead. This however makes no
differance to output wave if it is attached or not. ( a very small
differance does occure in the shape of the wave but it is negligible )

No, you are grounding the bridge in such a way that it's no longer
a bridge:

+----------+------>+DC
|K |K
[1N4001] [1N4001]
| |
120AC>--------+ +--+ |
P||S | |
R||E | |
I||C | |
ground --------+ +--|----------+
| |
|K |K
[1N4001] [1N4001]
| |
+----------+------>ground

You now only have one diode at work (the one in the upper left). The
two lower ones are shorted out (ground at the left, ground at the bottom)
and the upper right one never sees any positive peaks because it's at
ground.

So you have a half-wave rectifier, and the other three are going to waste.

How to isolate it? Use a transformer. That's what they are for.
Find an audio transformer, or a small power transformer, and use
that between the signal generator output, and the two AC input points
to the bridge. None of the diodes in the bridge will then be shorted
out, and it will work as normal.

Of course, you want to be careful picking the transformer. Best is
a 1:1 so it isolates but doesn't step up the voltage, which could give
you quite high voltages (depending on the input voltage and the step
up ratio of the transformer).

Of course, you could just get a low voltage power transformer, hook
the primary to a line cord, wire the secondary to your bridge, and
then you can do that to examine the output, and have a start on
your power supply.

Michael
 
E

ehsjr

Jan 1, 1970
0
jo.jo said:
Ok so common ground is effecting my scope and distorting my waveform.
can anyone suggest a way of overcoming this, or a procedure test the
output of a rectifier.

Sure. Get a small low voltage AC output wallwart
transformer. Use the output from that as the input
to your bridge.

Ed
 
D

default

Jan 1, 1970
0
I am trying to construct a small desktop power supply and have noticed
a small problem when measuring the output voltage from my bridge
rectifier. The rectifier is constructed from four 1N4001. When i
apply a AC wave (sin) to the input and measure the output, using a
oscilloscope, the bridge rectifier seems to produce only halfwave
rectification. I was expecting full wave rectification. Can anyone
suggest what i am doing wrong ?

A four diode bridge should give you a continuous series of "humps" on
the scope.

Half wave is "hump, flat line, hump, etc." is that what you see?
That is what half wave looks like.

The other way to look at it is measure the period between peaks or
zero's. A 60 cycle frequency is a 16.6 millisecond period, so there
should be two humps for full wave in a 16 ms horizontal space on the
scope - 8 ms hump width. - very handy when looking at filtered DC and
trying to tell if a rectifier opened up.

OK "hump" ain't correct jargon and they'd only be humps if you look at
the positive output referenced to negative - before someone jumps in
to castigate me.
 
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
No, you are grounding the bridge in such a way that it's no longer
a bridge:

+----------+------>+DC
|K |K
[1N4001] [1N4001]
| |
120AC>--------+ +--+ |
P||S | |
R||E | |
I||C | |
ground --------+ +--|----------+
| |
|K |K
[1N4001] [1N4001]
| |
+----------+------>ground

You now only have one diode at work (the one in the upper left). The
two lower ones are shorted out (ground at the left, ground at the bottom)
and the upper right one never sees any positive peaks because it's at
ground.

So you have a half-wave rectifier, and the other three are going to waste.

---
That's not right. With the bridge connected as shown it'll work
perfectly, but its output won't be isolated from the mains.

That's what the transformer shown on the schematic is for.

What the OP was doing is:

+V
\
+----------+--[SCOPE]---+
| | |
|K |K |
[1N4001] [1N4001] |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| +--[SIG GEN--+
| | |
|K |K |
[1N4001] [1N4001] |
| | |
+----------+------------+
/
GND

I initially thought he was using a transformer and shorting out a
diode, but I was wrong. With his common ground connected to the
minus side of the bridge, as shown above, what's happening is that
he's completely wasting half of the bridge because there's no signal
going to it. That's why he's only getting half-wave rectification.

The transformer is the cure, of course.
 
M

Michael Black

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
On 22 Aug 2006 15:40:35 GMT, [email protected] (Michael
Black) wrote:
That's not right. With the bridge connected as shown it'll work
perfectly, but its output won't be isolated from the mains.
I completely missed the transformer, sorry.

You'd gone to the trouble of making it, and so I just copied
it to show what was going on with one side of the bridge's input
grounded along with one of the outputs, but did miss that there was a
transformer there.

I was very much trying to show what happens without the transformer.

Michael
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
John said:
On 22 Aug 2006 03:17:18 -0700, "jo.jo" <[email protected]>
wrote:

I am trying to construct a small desktop power supply and have noticed
a small problem when measuring the output voltage from my bridge
rectifier. The rectifier is constructed from four 1N4001. When i
apply a AC wave (sin) to the input and measure the output, using a
oscilloscope, the bridge rectifier seems to produce only halfwave
rectification. I was expecting full wave rectification. Can anyone
suggest what i am doing wrong ?


---
You probably have something miswired or a diode in backwards. The
circuit should look like this:

(View in Courier)


+----------+------>+DC
|K |K
[1N4001] [1N4001]
| |
120AC>--------+ +--+ |
P||S | |
R||E | |
I||C | |
120AC>--------+ +--|----------+
| |
|K |K
[1N4001] [1N4001]
| |
+----------+------>-DC

"K" is the diode cathodes, and with your scope ground connected to
-DC and the probe to +DC you should see full-wave rectified AC


John if im being stupid here please slap me down but i tried your
circuit and while it does indeed take a ac wave and convert it into a
bumpy dc wave it is not full wave rectification. As i understand it,
full wave rectification of a sin wave inverts the negative half of the
wave. This produces a positive only signal twice the frequency of the
input. Your circuit does not do this.

if you have the time try it out and let me know

---
I have, hundreds of times. Trust me, it works! :)
---
.....maybe the problem
here is how i have my equipment configured, if there is anything i
should be aware of here please let us know.

I'll bet on that too.

Graham
 
A

Alan B

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ok so common ground is effecting my scope and distorting my waveform.
can anyone suggest a way of overcoming this, or a procedure test the
output of a rectifier. my signal generator is intergrated to my scope
so the output of the sig gen is always grounded. as for the input to
the oscilloscope, my probe has a ground lead. This however makes no
differance to output wave if it is attached or not. ( a very small
differance does occure in the shape of the wave but it is negligible )

You could use an isolation transformer for your o-scope.
 
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