Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Bottleneck 555's 0.2A Stuck project

KrisBlueNZ

Sadly passed away in 2015
Nov 28, 2011
8,393
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
8,393
That's a trick question, because you haven't told us how much current the 6V motor draws!

Also, you will lose most of your 6V because (a) using the transistor as an emitter follower like that, you will get about 0.8V lost across the base-emitter junction, and (b) when sinking current, the 555's output will not pull down to 0V; actually if it's sinking 200 mA it will only pull down to typically 2.5V.

Your best bet would be an NPN emitter follower buffer driving an NPN switching transistor connected as a common emitter saturated switch.

The emitter follower can be any small NPN that has a maximum collector current that's comfortably greater than the required base current for the main transistor. A 2N4401 or a BC337 would be suitable.

The main switching transistor needs to be an NPN, rated to carry the current required by the motor. Aim for a transistor with as much current gain as possible; this will allow you to keep the base current relatively low. But you can't use a Darlington; it will drop about 1.5V collector-emitter, leaving only 4.5V for the motor.

Here's how to connect them.

555 pin 3 to base of emitter follower transistor.
Collector of emitter follower transistor to the 555's positive supply rail.
Emitter of emitter follower transistor through a current limiting resistor to the base of the main transistor.
Emitter of main transistor to common 0V (negative supply) rail.
Collector of main transistor to motor and reverse-connected diode (same as drain connection of MOSFET).
Motor connected between collector of main transistor and a positive voltage rail.

The current limiting resistor will determine the base current into the main transistor. This current must be high enough to saturate the transistor fully. You can try a 6.8 ohm resistor to start with.

A bipolar transistor is not well-suited to this application. High-current bipolar transistors have fairly low current gains, so they need a lot of base current to saturate them properly. Even then, at currents of a few amps or more, you can lose half a volt or more across the transistor's collector-emitter. A MOSFET with low ON-resistance is a much better choice, especially at slow switching frequencies like this.

You would probably be better off using a boost converter to generate a 12V rail for the 555. It would then have enough voltage to fully saturate a big ol' grunty MOSFET. The boost converter will waste a little bit of power, but much less than the power you would waste feeding hundreds of milliamps into the base of a bipolar transistor.
 

123244

Apr 25, 2013
21
Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Messages
21
So far I have solved the controlling of 12V DC-geared motor. :)
Big thanks !!! (I can run it now with minimum input of >9V battery)


But adjusting the speed of a small toy 6V motor 0-100% with 6V input looks like a dead end.
(It is so small that I thought it would be super simple :eek: )

Every MOSFET in EBAY has a stated minimum of VGS=10V (which should be below <6V)
For the 6V toy motor(says 0.05A) MOSFET the amperes probably can be about 50% lower ID=5A.
(than with 12V geared motor)


My search list so far:
("-" means it didn't qualify VGS over 6V)
http://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_odkw...40N+-IRFP250+-SOIC+-SO+-IRFP150+-SOT&_sacat=0

Any clues for using something else than MOSFETs(if it's not possible to use\find suitable) for variable speed 0-100% driving of 6V motor with 6V or lower batteries ?
.
 

KrisBlueNZ

Sadly passed away in 2015
Nov 28, 2011
8,393
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
8,393
You're looking mainly at high voltage MOSFETs that are used in switching supplies. Devices rated for 100V or less are much more likely to be specified for low Vgs voltages.

One of the devices on your list, FDS6982, is specified at Vgs=4.5V. To get the full data sheet, go to digikey.com, search for that part number and click the PDF symbol in the rightmost column of the results table.

A MOSFET is your best bet for controlling the motor. Did you read the last paragraph of my previous post?
 

KrisBlueNZ

Sadly passed away in 2015
Nov 28, 2011
8,393
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
8,393
I couldn't say. None of the component markings are visible in the photo. I guess it uses a logic level MOSFET. It must have an unusual regulator if it can run from up to 90V!

Why not order one. Then we'll all know!
 

123244

Apr 25, 2013
21
Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Messages
21
DX.com uses China Post it takes 2-4months compared to Hong Kong Post's 2-3weeks.
+ I think DX lies on that 6V if it only takes 10V then I would have a 12€=15.20$ PWM that I have no use. It is a high risk. :(
(also no valid discount coupon codes now :D )

How to cool off these small SO-8 components if they heat ?
FDS6982 (SO-8)
I use only one Q2-side: 3 connections
VGS= 4.5 V
ID= 5.6 A
VDSS= 30V

Might be a good choice for 6V motor if SO-8 is easily solderable to 1mm holes ?
http://dx.com/p/double-side-prototype-pcb-breadboards-2-x-8cm-10-pcs-151160
 
Last edited:

CDRIVE

Hauling 10' pipe on a Trek Shift3
May 8, 2012
4,960
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
4,960
For the most part you can't brew your own cheaper than you can buy a PR import.

Chris
 

CDRIVE

Hauling 10' pipe on a Trek Shift3
May 8, 2012
4,960
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
4,960
Every MOSFET in EBAY has a stated minimum of VGS=10V (which should be below <6V)
For the 6V toy motor(says 0.05A) MOSFET the amperes probably can be about 50% lower ID=5A.
(than with 12V geared motor)
.


At Ebay I typed "Logic Level" and "MOSFET" auto-completed.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trk...nkw=logic+level+mosfet&_sacat=92074&_from=R40

This one has a Vgs(TH) = 2.0V!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Trans...ultDomain_0&hash=item416e15d407#ht_7812wt_679

Chris
 

KrisBlueNZ

Sadly passed away in 2015
Nov 28, 2011
8,393
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
8,393
The SO-8 package has a 1.27 mm pin pitch.

I would use both MOSFETs in the device, in parallel. They will current-share reasonably well.

SO-8 devices are heatsinked through their leads. You use large areas of copper, and make sure the leads are properly soldered to them. Not easy to do on a prototyping board. But you may not need to heatsink it much. Dissipation should be around 1W depending on how much current your motor draws. Do you know how much current it draws or are you just guessing?
 

KrisBlueNZ

Sadly passed away in 2015
Nov 28, 2011
8,393
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
8,393
Chris, I think he doesn't want to buy through ebay.com because of the freight cost. He is obviously on a tight budget. He was considering using ebay.de.
 

123244

Apr 25, 2013
21
Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Messages
21
After a lot of searches I might have found something. Thumbs up !
Will this work on 6V(and also with 12V) ?
2SK2498 50A 60V :D
http://www.uxcell.com/50a-60v-nchannel-mos-field-effect-transitor-2sk2498-black-p-148579.html
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/nec/2SK2498.pdf
Datasheet RDS (on)2: VGS=4V(I believe this means "the operating voltage" ? Which is <=6V)
I have an 5 dollar off coupon so I can buy it with 0.99$ piece(Free shipping) +multiple discounts if I order more...
Super deal :D

+ I ordered that 6V-90V PWM from china (12 dollars+Free shipping on ebay) just to see what is in it and copy the technology to my own PWM ;) (Still not yet received the china letter though)
 
Last edited:

KrisBlueNZ

Sadly passed away in 2015
Nov 28, 2011
8,393
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
8,393
Yes, the NEC 2SK2498 looks good. It's specified for 13 milliohms maximum RDS(on) at VGS=4V.

A standard 555 output may not go as far as +4V when running from a 6V supply. The 555's output stage uses NPNs and pulls low better than it pulls high. You could add a pull-up resistor, say 1k, between pin 3 and the positive supply to give it a bit of help.
 

KrisBlueNZ

Sadly passed away in 2015
Nov 28, 2011
8,393
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
8,393
Looks good.
You can add the part numbers for the MOSFET and the diode.

Edit: You may find it easier to connect the 1k resistor to the pin 3 side of the 10 ohm resistor. It doesn't make any difference to the circuit, and the way you have it fits better with the schematic, but the other way may fit better with the layout when you build it.

Edit2: Your diagrams will look sharper if you capture them as GIF or PNG. The JPG file format is not designed for diagrams, and you get those nasty wiggly blurry bits (called JPEG compression artifacts) around high-constrast transitions.
 
Last edited:

123244

Apr 25, 2013
21
Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Messages
21
China PWM arrived :) and works superb !!!
Operating voltage: DC6V-90V
PWM duty cycle: 0% -100%
Control Power: 0.01-1000W
PWM Frequency: 13khz
Quiescent Current: 0.005A (standby)
Fuse type: 15A

  • Where are the wirings on the back of the pcb. There is just solder visible :confused::confused::confused: ?
  • Why two(2) TO-220 Schottkies ?
  • Is the 3rd TO-220 MOSFET ? (or something else ?)
  • What kind of circuit drawing this one has ?


I have had some problems when soldering my own PWM.
I have 30W LUX-brand cheap soldering tool. Heat goes up to 480*C or something.(Burns the tip and I have to sharpen it like a pen :) )
When I have made some prototypes the results were poor turning the pot knob had no effect always no matter what changes I did.

I have come to a conclusion that I have burned some components...
What temperature\solder tool type is good so this won't occur ?
 
Top