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Bottleneck 555's 0.2A Stuck project

123244

Apr 25, 2013
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I use Germany Ebay.de because there is no official Ebay.xx in my country. I live in Northern Europe :eek:

Final ratings:(I might just go for 9V-12V if I don't find VGS=6V)
VGS= 6V (Input voltage)
Rds(on)= <10mΩ=0.01Ω (Dependent on power+current)
ID= 10A (Load's current draw)
VDSS= 40V (Load's voltage rating >12V)

The ones you send earlier would be perfect but the availability is so limited VGS=Really low. I could even run my 3V motors with it :)
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/AOI516/785-1568-5-ND/3152480
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/IPS075N03L G/IPS075N03L G-ND/2081218
But as said there's no way I can get my hand on those...So search is on...

  1. Dumb question 3 legs on schottky diode how to connect ?
  2. I'm also confused about when to start using AWG10-larger wire ?
    (when exactly amperes jump from 555's 0.2A to much larger amperes ?)

 

KrisBlueNZ

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Re how to connect the Schottky diode: it has an anode and a cathode just like any diode. One of the leads is either not connected, or a duplicate of one of the other leads. Look at the data sheet!

You need to use heavy wire all the way from the motor positive to the battery positive, and from the battery negative to the MOSFET source.

Your battery needs to supply all the current used by the load. You can use a separate power supply for the load; this is a good idea because it means that the 555 and the MOSFET's gate voltage will not be affected by the heavy load current. If you use a single power source, the heavy load current may cause the battery voltage to drop and this will disrupt the 555's operation and reduce the gate drive voltage to the MOSFET, both of which are not good.
 

123244

Apr 25, 2013
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OK. I think I got now the different current paths right.

10A is not constant current.
I don't know how much below motor takes if it stalls...
(=Too much force to opposite direction that causes motor to stop or move much slower)
So I want to be safe about "high current spikes" if something like that happens.

12V DC geared motor(60rpm or below)
http://dx.com/p/high-torque-60rpm-12v-dc-geared-motor-91625
+ Also would like to have an universal PWM so I can be able to run a 6V motor using 6V power supply when needed.

3.7V 18650 Batteries I use as a power supply (2x=7.4V, 3x=11.1V)
http://dx.com/p/ultrafire-protected-18650-3-7v-2400mah-lithium-batteries-2-pack-grey-19624

Advanced PWM plan: (With different current routes marked)


My original 555 PWM: (Without: potentiometer or mosfet...)
 

CDRIVE

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May 8, 2012
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If you have 200mA flowing in the 555's Reset pin (your last schematic) you have something wrong.

Chris
 

123244

Apr 25, 2013
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How about now ? (Changed 0.2A to 10A...Does it break the 555 ?)
Planning about wiring+amperes and where to put small AWG10 and large AWG20 wires ?
I have no idea where runs the paths of low 0.2A(NE555 current) and Load's high max current...

 
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BobK

Jan 5, 2010
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The 555 is not seeing the high current, so take out the red line to pin 4.

On the other hand, the ground lead of the motor, the source and drain of the MOSFET, and the anode of the diode are seeing the 10A, so these wires should be red.

Bob
 

KrisBlueNZ

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The diagram in post #23 is right, apart from the marking that shows the currents into the 555. Pin 4 draws no current at all when it's tied high like that, and pin 8 draws less than 200 mA. I would use a label of "<20mA" for the current flow to pin 8.
 

BobK

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Whoops, I did not see the thickness of the lines, only the color. So ignore my comments about the other wires needing to be red.

Bob
 

CDRIVE

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How about now ? (Changed 0.2A to 10A...Does it break the 555 ?)
Planning about wiring+amperes and where to put small AWG10 and large AWG20 wires ?

Kris answered the high current issue on the Reset pin but you have this statement reversed. ;)

Chris
 

KrisBlueNZ

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1. The duty cycle potentiometer should be labelled "Pot" or "Potentiometer". "Pot.meter" is not a normal abbreviation and could be confusing.
2. Your potentiometer doesn't need to be a 2W type. A standard potentiometer rated for 1/2W or even less is fine. By convention you only indicate important and unusual information on the schematic; even though you may currently intend to use a 2W potentiometer, the circuit doesn't require it, so you shouldn't show it on the schematic.
3. Your wire colours and thicknesses are right.
4. The MOSFET only has three pins. The pin at the right, which you have labelled "ns", is internally connected to the source. If you've created this schematic with a schematic editor, you may need to use a different symbol for the MOSFET. Also the MOSFET symbol should include the source-drain diode, which is internal to the MOSFET and is connected with its anode to the source and its cathode to the drain.
5. The two capacitors that you have marked "MPX X2 AC 275V" don't need those characteristics. X2 AC-rated capacitors are intended for mains filtering and are much larger and more expensive than common types such as ceramic. Here are three capacitors that are cheap, small, and suitable for those circuit positions.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/C420C104K5R5TA7200/399-4491-1-ND/818348 axial leads USD 0.23
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/FK28X7R1H104K/445-5258-ND/2256738 radial widely spaced leads USD 0.29
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/C320C104K5R5TA/399-4264-ND/818040 radial closely spaced leads USD 0.32
They are all 0.1 uF, 50V, 10% with X7R dielectric which means they are moderately stable and reliable with temperature and voltage variations.

That Chinese PWM looks pretty similar to your design.

The regulator is there so you can run it from a wider input voltage range. 12V is a good voltage for the main rail of this circuit because it provides plenty of gate voltage for the MOSFET, so it will saturate and have an extremely low drain-source resistance when ON, and it's comfortably lower than the 555's maximum supply voltage of 15V.

A standard 78xx regulator needs about 2.5V of voltage across it to regulate properly (this voltage is called the regulator's "dropout voltage"). So in order to get 12V out of the regulator, you need at least 14.5V at the power supply input, not 12V as claimed. The circuit will still work with only 12V on the power supply input connector, but the main positive rail will only be about 9.5V. Allowing for another 1.5V drop in the 555's output stage, that leaves 8V for the MOSFET gate-source voltage. That's enough to get most MOSFETs at least close to fully saturated; for a logic level gate MOSFET it's plenty.

On that Chinese module you can clearly see the heavy current paths on the underside, since they have been tinned with a thick coating of solder (and hopefully, some heavy copper wire underneath the solder).
 

123244

Apr 25, 2013
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Now the plan probably is ready. (All "about" minimum rating components)
All wanted options are there:(when the right mosfet is found...)
INPUT VOLTAGE: 6-12V
LOAD'S CURRENT DRAW: max.10A


When this pwm is ready. I'll make a wireless one with remote control... ;)
.
 
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KrisBlueNZ

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It's looking pretty good.

Re the capacitors that should be changed to ceramics, I was only talking about C1 and C2. C3 needs to be a good quality capacitor because it will be suppressing some high-current noise. A polypropylene capacitor such as the one at http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PHE450HA6100JR05/399-7702-ND/3465842 would be a good choice.

I thought you'd chosen the MOSFET? That one with the 2 milliohm ON-resistance?
 

123244

Apr 25, 2013
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I often have brain farts (I changed "half accidentally" all)
- How much "noise" 12V motor makes in volts ? (or a 6V motor ?)

IRF2804 mosfet would only run on input voltage of min.9V so it's good only with 12V motors but not when I change supply&motor to 6V... Solves only half of my "driving needs".

I've counted that I might be able to run the 6V motor with 3V voltage input without mosfet on just regular 555 pwm circuit... I'll test that too.
 
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KrisBlueNZ

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I don't know how much electrical noise a motor makes. It will depend on the design of the motor, the mechanical load on the motor, the amount of voltage applied to it and the amount of current it draws.

You don't have to power the 555 circuit from the same power supply that you feed to the motor. For example you could power the 555 circuit from a 12V battery and power the motor from a high-current adjustable DC power supply.

I wouldn't try to run the motor directly from the 555. It's only designed to source and sink 200 mA and can be easily damaged.
 

123244

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Adjustable DC power supply circuit: Below correct ?
What is a cheap & reliable DC power supply to buy ?
 
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KrisBlueNZ

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That circuit is almost right. The negative wire from the power supply needs to be connected to the 0V rail of the circuit, that is, the MOSFET's source. And you need to change the marking on the battery so it only says 12V. Then you can specify the MOSFET part number.

I can't suggest any specific power supplies. Obviously it needs to be able to supply the maximum current drawn by the motor, and the desired voltage. It's probably also a good idea to put a honking big electrolytic across the power supply wires where they enter your board. At least 4700 uF and rated for at least 1.5 times the maximum voltage you will be using. You can also put a big polystyrene or polyester cap, between 1 uF and 10 uF, across it as well. This will "firm up" the power supply to the motor and take some stress off the power supply.

A power supply that can supply 12V at 10A is going to be big, and probably not cheap. A power supply from a desktop PC has a 12V output but I doubt you'd find one rated for 10A. Would be worth a try though, as they're relatively cheap - at least the low-budget Chinese ones are.
 

123244

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I have an idea I'll create an own similar PWM for the 6V motor.
Using TIP32C... I=3A (PNP-Transistor)

And I'll just use the same circuit drawing from mosfet to it....(Is it ok ?)
This way I can run the 6V motor with 6V batteries without breaking the 555:

 

CDRIVE

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I have an idea I'll create an own similar PWM for the 6V motor.
Using TIP32C... I=3A (PNP-Transistor)

And I'll just use the same circuit drawing from mosfet to it....(Is it ok ?)

Unfortunately no. For one thing and I do mean one because they're more issues than this one. Your base current would have to be >=375mA to saturate the collector -emitter junction @ 3A collector current. This is per the ST data sheet.

Chris
 

123244

Apr 25, 2013
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Hhmmm. that PNP-transistor was one of the smallest ones.(link of list)
http://www.futurlec.com/TransPowerTIP.shtml

I see NE555 makes max. 0.2A and transistor needs 0.375A to work.
Datasheet: TIP32A
VCE(sat) IB=-375mA
Now I only need a transistor which has IB=<-200mA.
Is there any PNP-transistors like that which also provide enough amperes for the 6V motor ?
 
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